You do know that more than two thirds of Canadians live below the 49th, right?
Ok, BCL – tried that and got such a public beating on that the backed down. BC Rail – Getting public beating on that but its pretty much a done deal and they probably wont let go of that.
BCLottery? C’mon man that is the fattest cash cow the provincial gov’t has, no matter who is in power. I dont think any provincial gov’t would dream of selling that asset.
Is it true that there was a deal made a few months ago the traded the 11% cut for job security? Sounds like that was agreed on, and then the Unions decided to throw that out becuase they could do better, and instead ended up with an 11% cut and NO job security as a result.
Wow that was quick. You went from:
[quote=“orangetang”]I agree, but understand very little of what is happening.
Sounds like janitors, mail workers and such are complaining about low wages… DUH?
Whats happening?[/quote]
to this:
But no, that’s not what’s going on. Keep reading 
Cutting wages or benefits will always trigger a walkout. Do you know how many people are sick of incompetent NDP or asshole BC Liberals?
Everyone here is wishing we had a ‘middle of the road party’ which would do things different: like instead of coughing up more money (NDP) or rolling back wages (BC Liberal) would have imposed a ZERO raise for ten years. That would have put the ball in the HEUs court. The members could then manage until they found other jobs.
**notice the BCLiberals? cuz they’re NOT. The party was hijacked by the draconian demagogues of old Social Credit. Liberals are supposed to be just left of center, not just left of the christian falangists…
I don’t see healthcare or hospitals as business, though. I see it more like fulfilling a commitment created by the rights given to Canadians. More of these rights include roads and schools, but do not include liquor. Why stop at lotteries and liquor? Why not Crown Auto Repair, or Crown Groceries? I can’t deny the benefits of having extra dollars in the government coffers, but just because the government doesn’t control these resources, doesn’t mean there are no dividends. What is the justification of government in one industry, but not in another?
How about this? No more tax on auto fuel, but all gas stations will now be Crown Corporations.
[quote=“herbie_popnecker”]
**notice the BCLiberals? cuz they’re NOT. The party was hijacked by the draconian demagogues of old Social Credit. Liberals are supposed to be just left of center, not just left of the christian falangists…[/quote]
Had to look up that word: falangists. But yea that pretty much says it all. With no opposition, Campbell can do whatever the hell he wants which is very unfortunate.
All I can say with all the large unions pissed off now, I hope to see Gordo and pals being shit kicked in the next election. Which is what just a year away now?
I dont recall this much union strife under the NDP or even the Socreds in the 80’s.
All gov’ts waste money but some are just better at hiding it than others.
Then why would you want them to be run as a business then? That’s what this is all about, whether the hospitals are to have their functions in the hands of private companies or not. If the government has its way, everything about the hospitals will be private. This government WANTS you to pay for hospital care. They want to privatize hospitals. They’ve just picked the easiest targets first: the support workers.
Well, you answered your own question when you said that hospitals should be run by the government. Why? They’re not in the USA. Why not? Same reason for other companies.
Well you have not been to America then. Healthcare and hospitals are BIG business there. Thats how I think the liberals would like to see heathcare here in BC.
That brings me back to…
As for “running it LIKE a business”, is just a logical system of organization of money in and money out. Can you think of a better way? You can run like a business without becoming a business.
You’re right. Back in the 80s when the shit hit the fan Bill Bennett sat down with IWA leader Jack Munro and they sorted it all out
Well, the problem is that a business is meant to make money, to be driven by profit.
A government isn’t.
It should be driven by the public good.
It’s good to have free health care. It’s good to have free education.
But when you start thinking about making money, and introduce the profit motive, then THAT becomes the prime motivation.
That’s what this strike is about. Somebody figured they could make money from the hospitals, by having it run by a private company.
[quote=“herbie_popnecker”]
Please don’t confuse the current strike with the nurses. Nurses almost NEVER go on strike. You have to really piss them off to get them to vote for a strike. This is the HEU that represents other jobs in health services.
BAD KARMA - it’s jealousy to be pissed off at someone who is in a union and makes more than you. You can join a union too, it is your right. The karma kicks in when you believe they should take stuff away from someone who has more than you.
Socialism: to believe in taking something away from someone who has ‘too much’ and give it to those who have ‘too little’. You only need to be afraid of who makes that decision!
Communism: to truly believe the floor washers deserve to make as much as the nurses![/quote]
NEVER will you here me complaining about nurses. They are the lifeblood of hospitals and an extremely important support system to people in need! In fact, I put nurses in the group that deserved higher pay.
I do not feel jealous of people who make more money that I do. In fact, go get a job at McD’s and you will be.
My bone of contention will always be with those who feel they deserve higher pay for any reason other than that which is proportional to the quality or work, resources required to attain suitable qualification, uniqueness of skill, or difficulty of work.
“I can’t feed my family on this!â€
You just hit on the thing no one talks about. There’s a huge rift between union ideology and union members belief. If you are CAW or IWA and go on strike and get 5%, private businesses can raise prices to cover it. As long as everyone is reasonable, inflation isn’t much of a problem, specially when you risk your job going overseas…
Public sector unions are milking the public purse. IWA and CAW guys know that. Thier leaders may talk the talk, but the members may not walk the walk…
i know because we had to keep trying to keep up with the public sector ]
[quote=“MiG”]Well, the problem is that a business is meant to make money, to be driven by profit.
A government isn’t.
It should be driven by the public good.
It’s good to have free health care. It’s good to have free education.
But when you start thinking about making money, and introduce the profit motive, then THAT becomes the prime motivation.[/quote]
You have my complete agreement on this statement.
With this, I disagree.
Hypothetical for lack of a better real world example:
- It cost 10 million per year to clean the widgets.
- Hospital widget cleaners are paid $20/hr.
- A private company will clean all the widgets just as well as the Hospital widget cleaners, but only charge the hospital 3 million a year.
Option1: Do nothing. Widget cleaning stays the same. Go cut 7 million from somewhere else.
Option2: Reduce the wages of the Widget cleaners to match the private company.
Option3: Use the private company, who will be making a profit. (OMG)
Conclusion: Either way, with option 2 or 3, the widgets are getting clean for 7 million a year less and another department gets an extra 7 million. But with all three options, what was the decision really about? The Widget cleaners, Hospital Patients, or the government?
If you go with option 3, did hospitals just suddenly become about profit? No, they didn’t make a profit, because then that extra 7 million would go into the “Revenue” pile. But there isn’t a revenue pile, now is there?
Alistair has some great points. Since many people in BC do not want to cut janitors jobs and save money. Where exactly should they be making the cutbacks?? With BC’s financial situation, cuts are going have to be made.
Great thinking.
This government comes to power, and immediately gives the rich a 25% tax cut (did you get a tax cut? I didn’t!). That’s like taking 25% of your money and throwing it away.
Then they come back and say “we don’t have enough money”. Yeah, no kidding, you just gave it all away.
And so begins the downward spiral. The economy has gone to shit since this government came to power.
Ask yourself why the cuts “have to be made” ? Especially since the BC Government is bragging that it is spending more in Healthcare now than ever.
To pay for all those $75-$100K administrators and $1000 a day consultants moonlighting from the Fraser Institute.
I wanted to find the exact statistic on this, but I couldn’t. Seems unfair though.
It goes something along the lines of the people making $200k or more (top 5%) account for over 75% of all income tax paid.
Perhaps somebody knows the exact numbers?
You can’t blame the Liberals for the cow thing, the softwood thing, the bird thing, the 911 thing, the other bird thing, that flu from China, and more I’m sure I’m forgetting.
Frankly, every politician is an idiot to somebody, but blaming Liberals for the state of our economy is like USA blaming Canada for their poor economy, because we didn’t go to Iraq.
What about the strike sending millions of dollars to Seattle? Might that be hurting the economy? I know it has nothing to do with the government!