I don’t think the exact numbers matter a whole lot, it will just irritate you even more. Fact of the matter is, the government needs to think before they do things.
As individuals who are upset with the government, we should be educating people about politics and getting more people to vote. Apprently only 2% of BC’s population are part of a political party and 60% actually vote. We should be gearing up for the next election to make sure we as a society, vote in strong leaders.
We don’t need strong leaders, we need leaders that do as they’re told.
And isn’t Powell River the home of the last REAL Liberal leader?
[quote=“alistair”]
Hypothetical for lack of a better real world example:
- It cost 10 million per year to clean the widgets.
- Hospital widget cleaners are paid $20/hr.
- A private company will clean all the widgets just as well as the Hospital widget cleaners, but only charge the hospital 3 million a year.
Option1: Do nothing. Widget cleaning stays the same. Go cut 7 million from somewhere else.
Option2: Reduce the wages of the Widget cleaners to match the private company.
Option3: Use the private company, who will be making a profit. (OMG)
Conclusion: Either way, with option 2 or 3, the widgets are getting clean for 7 million a year less and another department gets an extra 7 million. But with all three options, what was the decision really about? The Widget cleaners, Hospital Patients, or the government?
If you go with option 3, did hospitals just suddenly become about profit? No, they didn’t make a profit, because then that extra 7 million would go into the “Revenue” pile. But there isn’t a revenue pile, now is there?[/quote]
Alistair, check what happened in the UK:
http://www.newint.org/issue355/bad.htm
and
http://www.sfl.sk.ca/public_html/Labour%20Issues/CCPA_FinanceInitiative.html
It is wrong to assume that a private company will do as well or better with less. Private companies paying lower wages with less benefits will have a higher turn-over of employees than the public sector. Like someone said earlier, if the job is low pay, move on to another job. Cleaning a hospital is different than cleaning a house ( I hope you understand that). If a private company spends its time training people for this job, the hospital will not function optimally. I am sure you want your cancer afflicted aquaintance to be treated in the best environment possible, not one where every week a new person is in charge of sanitation. And don’t forget that often the companies end up claiming training money to the governement in one way or another ( special program or tax ride-off.)
You also seem to judge people’s importance according to the money they make. By that kind of standards, some of the most important people in BC are playing golf right now because they lost in the first NHL playoffs round 
Don’t you work in a computer store? How important is that? Think about this kind of thing before you make judgement on people who have jobs that may not seem glamourous.
[quote=“herbie_popnecker”]We don’t need strong leaders, we need leaders that do as they’re told.
And isn’t Powell River the home of the last REAL Liberal leader?[/quote]
I have just recently acquired a taste for politics and didn’t pay much attention in my teenage years. But the only political leader that stands out in my mind is Gordon Wilson, whom is a very decent man.
My father actually had the opportunity to ask Carole James if she knew anything about the posibility of the NDP recruiting him and she just chuckled. So I take that as a no or she didn’t have much to comment about him, good or bad.
[quote=“alistair”]
You can’t blame the Liberals for the cow thing, the softwood thing, the bird thing, the 911 thing, the other bird thing, that flu from China, and more I’m sure I’m forgetting.
Frankly, every politician is an idiot to somebody, but blaming Liberals for the state of our economy is like USA blaming Canada for their poor economy, because we didn’t go to Iraq.
What about the strike sending millions of dollars to Seattle? Might that be hurting the economy? I know it has nothing to do with the government![/quote]
Bored Alistair. ?
[quote=“BigThumb”]
It is wrong to assume that a private company will do as well or better with less. Private companies paying lower wages with less benefits will have a higher turn-over of employees than the public sector. Like someone said earlier, if the job is low pay, move on to another job. [/quote]
Actually, the whole Costco versus Sam’s Club is an excellent example of this.
Costco (Price Club) has about 400 of those big-ass stores in North America. Sam’s Club (Wal-Mart) has about 750 or so (not too sure about the numbers, it’s been a few weeks since I read the article).
Yet Costco outsells Sam’s Club.
What’s the secret? They pay their employees a decent wage. In fact, after working at Costco for 3 years, the average worker makes more than 40K US per year.
You’d think that people working retail (and Wal-Mart level retail) should only be paid minimum wage. That’s what Wal-Mart thinks, and that’s what they pay their Sam’s Club people, apparently.
But in this case, paying people decent money makes them like their jobs, and their productivity is higher. It’s almost the reverse of what capitalism says it should be, but there it is.
I’ve also mentioned Airbus, Nokia and Volkswagen before, but they are also counter-examples to capitalism (being partly owned by governments and workers, paying high wages, and concerned with more than the bottom line).
So if you ask the question “show me an example of a system that works better than pure capitalism”, then I’d say “look anywhere else in the world but the USA.”
Found the Costco story: tinyurl.com/33tbg
and if you take the time to read this: tinyurl.com/2kxn8 it’s about how companies like VW, Nokia and Airbus should be failures, but aren’t. They don’t play the capitalism game properly, they are government and worker-owned, pay very good wages to their workers, pay their CEOs and managers down-to-earth salaries. So by capitalist standards, they should be failing. But they’re not, they’re leading. What’s up with that?
the chuckle was enuff to cost her any vote from me. GW was railroaded out because he got involved with another MLA from Okanogan. Left his wife for her. And Canadians act like they’re SO much more tolerant than Yanks!
So the NDP tolerates gays, 4th generation welfare recipients, marxists, eco-terrorists and any minority that can cast a vote. BUt snickers at someone who ‘follows his heart’. Hmm no wonder socialist art consists of portraits of tractors and tyrants. It’s a sick, sick world. 
Let us learn from the mistakes of those before us. Examin the merits and make change acordingly.
I think what it comes right down to personally, is that I don’t like to feel like I’m being held hostage. There are now several unions that are having sympathy strikes. Not only can I not get non-emergency surgery, but I can’t take the bus, can’t unload my children at school, and the list grows. Now remember, I don’t take the bus or have children, but if I did, this could really screw up my life.
Now I know what you’re saying. A few posts back I said…
[quote=“BigThumb”] You also seem to judge people’s importance according to the money they make. By that kind of standards, some of the most important people in BC are playing golf right now because they lost in the first NHL playoffs round
Don’t you work in a computer store? How important is that? Think about this kind of thing before you make judgement on people who have jobs that may not seem glamourous.[/quote]
This actually brings me to a very good point that I feel that a lot of people who are part of a union or work for a large company don’t realize. If I seem like I judge people’s importance base on the money they make, than you’re either missing my point, or I’m not making it properly.
Yes, I used to work for a computer store. Being a manager of that store, I was privy to all of the company’s financials. It was important that while doing my job, that I understand where every dollar was going for every department to properly assess the potential of my department.
Did I want a raise? Absolutely! Did I feel that not only did I earn a raise, but deserved it? No doubt! Was the wage I was paid adequate for the amount of work I put in? No question, nor did anyone deny that. Could I have been given a raise? Plain and simply, no.
Did I picket, slow down my work, and reduce effort to “essential servicesâ€
I’m very much rambling on and feel that my arguments are become less and less strung together properly.
What this entire debate really boils down to for me is that the system has it’s problems and instead of trying to solve problems for the greater good of all peoples, the parties involved are desperately trying to cling to the parts of the system that match there ideology.
I am very much a capitalist. If I want to open a business, I want to be free to do so without being told how I should do it and whom I can do it to. Unions were created to defend the single worker from being bullied by the large corporation. By creating a unified body that is vital to the organization, they protect the rights and safety of the worker. This is a noble cause. Today, unions have become those bullies themselves; using bully tactics to shape the way organizations are run.
I could sit here all day a debate the merits running things one way or another, but the fact is no right way that satisfies everyone involved. There are two completely different views at work here. Either way, I would like to see resolution so that I can stop feeling like a hostage.
[quote=“alistair”]I do believe that people who have skills and training that have taken more than a month of Sundays to get, are worth more money.
Now remember! I’ve never been a part of a union. So if I’m off base, convince me otherwise with arguments, pickets signs, or whatever.[/quote]
Maybe you really didn’t explain your point properly.
The union=bullies rhetoric is and old one. It should almost qualify as Godwin’s law in this thread.
Not quite. “union bosses” should be trigger phrase for Godwin’s Law. At any rate it’s over. When the gov’t, the Labour Board and the courts all are against you it’s time to fight another day.
Unions of the World Unite!
YA! Picard was the best ‘Capt’. Haven’t decided where Archer ranks
My god Carmel… Ryan has corrupted you.
Ah HA! Or perhaps I have corrupted Ryan! muhahahah
Zapp Brannigan - “If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.”