There are some interesting and comical opinions here. How many of you have read the bible? It is hard to respect a persons opinion if they have little to no education on the subject.
All religion aside.
I respect the fact sandimas believes that the theory of evolution is 100% proven. What I am saying ( and most scientists), is that it is not and can not be 100% proven. So going back to my comment to soggy, If something can not be 100% proven, but accepted as fact by most people, isn’t that alone an example of having just the slightest amount of faith in a process.
What I’m trying to illustrate ( and probably not that well) is that faith isn’t tied to religion. It’s used quite often when referring to it, but it doesn’t end there. Every one has faith in something, whether they realize or not.
Even though I can’t prove it, I have faith that I’ll wake up tomorrow. This helps me get on with other things, like raising my family.
By the way, about the the new title, aren’t we missing the third topic? absomething or other?
'gotta go, pce
I think you’re wrong on that one.
What would you consider proof that natural selection occurs?
If I am a dog breeder, and I select traits in puppies that I want to breed in the future, over generations I can come up with Chihuahuas and Great Danes. That’s evolution, with me doing the selection.
Well, what would happen if the “choosing which puppies get to breed” happened naturally? ie: the ones that had traits that helped them survive and breed would be naturally selected.
Would you say that the existence of gravity is not and cannot be 100% proven? Or what about the theory of planetary orbits, that is not and cannot be 100% proven? I think you’re simply, and respectfully, wrong about what constitutes proof.
I think knowledge (scientific method) and faith (belief in the unknowable) are mutually exclusive. They don’t overlap. People tend to get in trouble when they think that accepting one means you cannot accept the other. Well, I can believe in a god (ie: faith in the unknowable) and still know that gravity/evolution/planets exist (by using the scientific method). They don’t cancel each other out.
Evolution is a bad example. Theoretical physics is better. It takes just as much faith to believe in the idea that there are infinite numbers of alternate universes to our own as it does to believe that there is a creator of some kind.
To quote Rainn Wilson (Dwight Shrute from “The Office”) on his website, he says “There is this weird thing, called “science,” which explains everything and nothing. Theories become fact, then are un-proven decades later. We still don’t really know what gravity is, or light for that matter.”
Here’s the link to his whole article. soulpancake.com/post/1230/pr … f-god.html
He doesn’t really make an argument for a creator. The idea of the entire SoulPancake website is to provide real thought-provoking discussion–so he’s really just trying to put atheists on their toes, who too often get to toss aside the opinions of those of faith with arguments like “well there’s just as much proof of God as there is a flying spaghetti monster.”
That’s a hypothesis, which, unfortunately, hasn’t been tested (or testable) yet, has it? So yes, it would take a lot of ‘faith’ to believe that the idea of alternate universes without any proof. It’s not a scientific theory, it’s a hypothesis or a postulate or something like that. It hasn’t been proven, or maybe can’t be proven or disproven. Just like the existence of God.
It’s not on the same level as saying that science can prove the theory that the Earth is round using the scientific method.
Again, I think people are just confused with the word ‘theory’ – it doesn’t mean what they think it means.
I don’t see any conflict here. Believing in something that can’t be tested, can’t be proven, is called faith. Whether you’re talking about God or an alternate universe. That’s different than knowledge which can be tested, and proven or disproven.
ie: is the Earth round? Well, there’s a way for us to check using the scientific method. Does the Earth orbit the sun? There’s a way to test that too. Is evolution by natural selection occurring? There are ways to test to see if that’s true or not as well.
You beleiving something does not make it true, and conversly not beleiving in something does not make it untrue.
Any of you that have not yet done so, should watch Bill Maher’s 2008 documentary movie ‘Religulous’ very good IMH at least well worth the time, some very funny moments.
Not sure where to begin. Maybe I should write the Gospel According to DWhite.
When I was a kid I had three imaginary friends – Dingle, Dovis and LeeLee. Many a rainy afternoon was spent playing with them and whatever toy or game was available. I am not sure how old I was when they slipped into the cave with Puff but they are no longer with me.
I also don’t remember that epiphany when I realized that I didn’t believe in God. Unlike Dingle, Dovis and LeeLee, God was never even an imaginary reality for me.
I call myself an atheist because it is easier to say than “I believe it is highly unlikely that there is a god and I live my live as if there isn’t one.”
But that doesn’t mean that I don’t have faith. Like greyhair, I have faith that when I go to bed I will wake up to a world that still exists – the sun will be in the sky (cloudy though it may be), the earth will still be spinning and revolving, plants will grow, life will go on in pretty much the same way that it always has. To think otherwise would be insanity.
I also have faith that whenever a difficult problem afflicts me, I have family and friends who will help me, that I will not be abandoned.
People say, “There has to be a god. Randomness couldn’t have created this world.” My (probably simplistic) response: “What randomness was capable of creating something that was capable of creating this world?” I suppose we could say that whatever spark got this whole universe thing going can be called god, but I just find it inconceivable that something is out there listening to prayers and dabbling in our affairs.
I am also unconvinced that god is worth worshiping. The god of the Old Testament besides being loving, is also cruel, vengeful, jealous, in other words, as perfectly imperfect as his human creations.
The god of the New Testament is seen through the eyes of Jesus and his followers. I am certainly willing to concede that Jesus was a decent man with revolutionary ideas about how we should treat each other, but again, I find it inconceivable that he is the son of god or is god or he died for our sins (something I really don’t get) or that he rose to heaven and sits on a throne.
However, I won’t say that people who think otherwise are stupid. “Whatever gets you through the night. ‘salright. ‘salright.”)
I know lots of intelligent Christians who believe as I do that church and state are and should remain separate. And to me, that is the most important part of the debate on belief in God. When decisions are made in the public arena, they should be based on what is best for society not by what we think some being that may or may not exist has told us.
My favorite version of “Heaven” was a Gahan Wilson cartoon in Playboy forty or so years ago. It showed two men leaning against a cement wall. Across the top of the wall were letters spelling H-E-A- -E-N. The “V” was on the ground. There were cigarette butts all around and a couple of unshaven “angels” who had passed out, drunk. One man says to the other, “I thought heaven would be a classier place.”
A quote I like:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
— Epicurus
Personally I think religion is silly and fanatics should be locked up. But if you need to believe your life is somehow more meaningful than it is and that after you die you go somewhere special because you can’t fathom the idea of being worm food then have at it. just don’t try to push your nonsense on me or try to look down on me or judge me based on your views. You are not better than your fellow man because you found a group of like minded people.
I have no problem with religion except when people try to use it as a basis for morality or law. It has no place in either.
Tides goes in, tides goes out; sun comes up, sun comes down; moon comes up, moon comes down.
Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. /bill o’reilly
[quote=“PLA”]Tides goes in, tides goes out; sun comes up, sun comes down; moon comes up, moon comes down.
Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. /bill o’reilly[/quote]
Yes you can. Bill oreilly is a moron.
Not to mention he thinks Mars doesn’t have moons. >.>
lol
[quote=“jesus”]
[quote=“PLA”]Tides goes in, tides goes out; sun comes up, sun comes down; moon comes up, moon comes down.
Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. /bill o’reilly[/quote]
Yes you can. Bill oreilly is a moron.[/quote]
Agreed. 
[quote=“PLA”]Tides goes in, tides goes out; sun comes up, sun comes down; moon comes up, moon comes down.
Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. /bill o’reilly[/quote]
E-mail O’Reilly the link to the Physics12 class. Unfortunately if you don’t remember Science8, he won’t qualify…
[quote=“grey hair”]All religion aside.
I respect the fact sandimas believes that the theory of evolution is 100% proven. What I am saying ( and most scientists), is that it is not and can not be 100% proven. So going back to my comment to soggy, If something can not be 100% proven, but accepted as fact by most people, isn’t that alone an example of having just the slightest amount of faith in a process.
What I’m trying to illustrate ( and probably not that well) is that faith isn’t tied to religion. It’s used quite often when referring to it, but it doesn’t end there. Every one has faith in something, whether they realize or not.
Even though I can’t prove it, I have faith that I’ll wake up tomorrow. This helps me get on with other things, like raising my family.
By the way, about the the new title, aren’t we missing the third topic? absomething or other?
'gotta go, pce[/quote]
A true scientist would never say anything is 100% proven. Proofs can only reaffirm or disprove the theory. The process is the only thing I have faith in.
Since I wake up every morning and get on with things, I have a reasonable hope that this will continue. However, since no-one has ever beaten death, I also have a reasonable assumption that one day I won’t wake up the next morning. This doesn’t stop me from living my life.
@cutter: Yes I have read The Bible many times, and also biblical history, especially the Cambridge Biblical Encyclopedia. I’ve also read many of the other holy books. Have you? Why is it only the Christian view of god the only one you accept. There have been many other gods and goddess with just as much credibility as the Christian one.
reasonable hope, reasonable assumption…sounds like you have " A confident belief in a concept or thing " to me.
A fairytale you say?
Your assumption is not reasonable. It’s an assumption based on an unproven and unprovable theory…
so this is what the conversation has come to ? I thought we had somethin’ special, ya know, something real. lol
ski ya later and have a good weekend
Lock yourself in the bathroom. Pour a gallon of bleach in the toilet. Then add a gallon of ammonia.
If you’re alive in the morning you can post that science is only a theory.