Shame on you Jennifer Rice!

[BTravenn]

[quote=“DWhite”]Observations

2. I found it interesting that pureheart, claiming to be part of the old guard, would come on a public forum and trash his party’s representative. If you are part of the old guard, I would suggest that you keep those criticisms in house as they will hardly help your party in the long run.[/quote]

Pureheart’s comments are matter of fact and relatively free of hyperbole. The notion that a self-proclaimed loyalist should keep criticisms in house, out of public view, is not very realistic. Political parties no longer command the degree of reverence and loyalty that they used to, mostly because they don’t deserve it (and perhaps they never did).

[DWhite]

[quote=“BTravenn”]

[quote=“DWhite”]Observations

2. I found it interesting that pureheart, claiming to be part of the old guard, would come on a public forum and trash his party’s representative. If you are part of the old guard, I would suggest that you keep those criticisms in house as they will hardly help your party in the long run.[/quote]

Pureheart’s comments are matter of fact and relatively free of hyperbole. The notion that a self-proclaimed loyalist should keep criticisms in house, out of public view, is not very realistic. Political parties no longer command the degree of reverence and loyalty that they used to, mostly because they don’t deserve it (and perhaps they never did).[/quote]

Matters of fact? Let’s break them down.

As one of the old guard, Stacking the voters is not a rumor, definitely true.

Fact: She brought more people to the meeting that supported her than did her opponent. The use of the word stacking has a negative connotation, implying some kind of irregularity.

She has proven to be a very ineffectual MLA,

Fact: This is complete opinion, in this particular case unsubstantiated opinion, that could easily be argued, even refuted by a supporter.

has reduced office hours, has changed office personnel several times,

Fact: I will assume true, although I wonder if anybody outside the inner party faithful noticed. Regardless, this sounds like a personnel issue that should be dealt with in house.

just loves to have her picture taken.

Fact; Opinion based on perception, a negative perception we probably have of most public figures.

I totally agree with the last part of your comment. Nobody expects party loyalty to last forever. If memory serves correctly, I have voted NDP in 20/24 federal and provincial elections. And there are lots of things I don’t like about the party. And I don’t agree with everything that Jennifer Rice or Nathan Cullen believe in. And there is nothing wrong with somebody like me saying that I am disappointed in something that Jennifer or Nathan or the party has done or said. But I am not nor ever claimed to be part of the old guard.

Old guard suggests a person who has been a member in good standing for years, pays yearly dues, donates money, goes to the meetings, perhaps serves on the executive, takes part in discussions, promotes planks in a platform, works tirelessly during election campaigns (as opposed to finding a few hours to deliver flyers). Maybe I misinterpreted pureheart’s meaning of old guard. If he is just a long time voter who is now disillusioned then fair enough.

But if he is actually a member of what I consider the old guard, then I do question his reasons for trashing his representative with vague opinions and innuendo. If he doesn’t like Jennifer representing the party (and he has every right to hold that view) I think he and his party would be better served by his working to find a replacement rather than publicly bashing Jennifer. All that accomplishes is less respect for whoever represents the party in the next election.

[BTravenn]

[quote=“DWhite”]Observations

As one of the old guard, Stacking the voters is not a rumor, definitely true.

Fact: She brought more people to the meeting that supported her than did her opponent. The use of the word stacking has a negative connotation, implying some kind of irregularity.
[/quote]

From what I heard (from an ‘old guard’) there was concern about how mail-in ballots were handled.

@DWhite

Old guard suggests a person who has been a member in good standing for years, pays yearly dues, donates money, goes to the meetings, perhaps serves on the executive, takes part in discussions, promotes planks in a platform, works tirelessly during election campaigns (as opposed to finding a few hours to deliver flyers). Maybe I misinterpreted pureheart’s meaning of old guard. If he is just a long time voter who is now disillusioned then fair enough.

A lot of this seems to turn on what it means to be ‘old guard’. When I was an NDP member, many years ago, I do not recall a category of membership called ‘old guard’ with a different set of expectations, including to refrain from public criticism of the MLA. Perhaps that’s a disciplinary matter within the NDP.

[quote=“DWhite”]
But if he is actually a member of what I consider the old guard, then I do question his reasons for trashing his representative with vague opinions and innuendo. If he doesn’t like Jennifer representing the party (and he has every right to hold that view) I think he and his party would be better served by his working to find a replacement rather than publicly bashing Jennifer. All that accomplishes is less respect for whoever represents the party in the next election.[/quote]

Trashing? bashing? or just expressing a contrary opinion? As for implications for the next election, I’m doubtful that public dissent and a contentious nomination contest hurts a party. There is something reassuring about rank and file party members exercising their democratic right to replace a sitting MLA or MP, even if it gets a bit raucous. I think it gives the rest of us the impression that they were genuinely concerned about selecting the most capable person, which is commendable.

[DWhite]

Trashing? bashing? or just expressing a contrary opinion?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with bashing or trashing or expressing a contrary opinion about a political person. It happens all the time. Comes with the territory.

Hypothetically, if I was a current member of the NDP, especially a long time member of the NDP, I wouldn’t come on an internet forum such as this and imply that the MLA from my party cheated her way to the nomination, is doing a shitty job, and just likes the limelight through photo ops. I would leave that up to the Liberal or others who have an issue with her.

If I were a member of the NDP and for some reason didn’t like what my MLA was doing, I would be talking to her or members of the executive to force improvement. And if I still wasn’t satisfied then I would work diligently to find somebody to run at the next nominating meeting when it would be totally appropriate to question the effectiveness of all the candidates to do the job.

And if I still wasn’t satisfied, then I would quit. And THEN I would go public with my complaints.

But that’s just me. You may be different.

[Pantagruel]

Thanks folks. Finally, after quite a bit of drought we have some reasoned discussion. Yes, we all have divergent viewpoints. It is great! Otherwise why would we enter this forum.

Having brought up the idea of tossing Jennifer out as our NDP representative, I am pleased that it created discussion. My hope in doing this was that I suspect that she, or people she depends on, read this forum. If we are already bitching about the quality of her representation, maybe she can pull up her socks (frankly I doubt it but i have been wrong before).

I am not happy with her. I am not a NDP member although over the years I have voted NDP on many occasions. Incidentally, I did not vote for her in the last election, because, after watching her performance in City Council, I concluded that she was ineffectual and would not represent local interests with any amount of skill. Now, if she does not improve, I will probably join the local NDP party, and it will be with the intent of nominating someone else as the NDP candidate for the region.

The NDP lost the last election. I believe they lost it because they had a person who thought it was okay to fabricate documents as a leader. I don’t think that the politicians and political pundits realized how offensive that was to the ordinary voter. ( As an aside, I think the NDP doyens are incredibly stupid for allowing that person to continue to actually represent the party. It begs the question of what else is permissible within the NDP political culture. Come to think of it, I will probably not be able to vote NDP because of him). During the election, the NDP also demonstrated a complete disregard for the fact that without jobs, not much happens. Most of the working province turned its’ back against them because of this. Personally, I am a great believer in the social welfare net, but it needs industry and employees paying taxes so it can be financially supported.

So, Jennifer, it is over to you.

[hitest]

@Pantagruel

Now, if she does not improve, I will probably join the local NDP party, and it will be with the intent of nominating someone else as the NDP candidate for the region.

Sounds good. Democracy works when voters participate in the process. I will become a member again before the 2017 nomination meeting. I enjoy being part of the process.