Lowering the voting age to 16...?

General Forums Prince Rupert Forum
1

after listening to a bunch of people phoning in to cbc and characterizing themselves as teenagers who were ‘overly influenced by the party with the youth movement, or a catchy song’, and therefore were not ‘qualified’ to vote…

for christs sake! there are tons of adults out there who make decisions based on shittier rationales than which party played ‘iron man’ as their theme song…

realizing further that voter apathy is a fuckin HUGE issue, and maybe involving people in civics at an earlier age can help break down the amount of jaded people of voting age who cant be bothered to vote.
i bet only 1/4 of the people age 16-18 would vote if given the chance, but writing off their opinions and influence on the civic process on the basis of arguments that revolve around ‘oh, when i was a teenager, i was more interested in who was goign to the prom’.

i forget what kind of argument that is, but it really grates when people use it. so what if you were a ditz when yuo were 16, and didnt give enough of a shit about politics to take the time to make a half-assed informed decision. just because you’re a tool doesnt mean that my own political opinions havent been fairly cogently formed since i was 14 or 15…i still think that I have a better handle on whats going on than lots of people who are lots older than us.

in summation:
the appeal to the authority of age really sucks because old people are fuckin morons too.

rock on nathan cullen…ima write you a letter.

2

[quote="" i bet only 1/4 of the people age 16-18 would vote if given the chance.[/quote"]

I just turned 16 so I know what I’m talking about. I think that every single 16-18 year old would vote weather they had an educated opinion or not. Think about it. There are a few things that coime to mind if I think about things I wish i could do earlier. A few things that many teens wish they could do at an earlier age: Drive, Drink, Smoke (sadly about the dirnking and smoking bit). However, for many teens voting is also one thing that teens would jump at if they were allowed is voting.

If I were told that I could get my licence to drive tomorrow, at 16, I wouldnt stop and think if I were “ready” for the responsibility of driving. I’d get in my families van, pick up some friends, and go driving.

The same is true for voting, and the truth is that the number of teens who would vote for the fun of it is much larger than the amount of teens that would vote because they wanted to have change/for things to stay the same.

Last, things that governments decide to change rarely have any direct affect on people under 18. For example: If taxes get raised, the 16 year old isn’t gonna pay, the person that voted for the pm/premier/ect., is the one that is going to pay.

To summarize, I will very unlikely suffer any concequences of an election, so why should I be allowed to decide who is making the concequences happen. (keep in mind that im 16 so this is a pretty honest opinion)[/quote]

3

“The fun of voting”

I can tell you’ve never done it, there are no cheering crowds, you dont get a cookie after it. You walk into your polling place, find your table, mark an X, (two this May!) and walk away.

I think you’re overestimating the amount of teenagers who are interested in dropping a ballot (or even getting registered??). The novelty of it will wear off before you even start walking down to the civic…

As for your arguments regarding not being affected by the decisions of our elected leaders before you hit 18… uhh, thats completely incorrect, and I think with a bit of thought you’ll see that yourself.

You speak of “suffering the consequences of an election” - and I definitely empathize with yuor opinion. Politicians suck. Politics sucks. Maybe you’ve sat in school through some mandatory shit and thought of how the funds couldve been otherwise used to enrich you and your community. Maybe you’ve seen some stupid govt. programs having money thrown at it by the chumps spending our money. It’s really easy to be jaded about politics and politicians, but I think an optimistic attitude about what positive things could be accomplished by a government is a prerequisite for a better tomorrow.

4

Finally someone who decided to take this conversation to HTMF, I figured if no-one would do it than I would but fortunatly there is someone who cares about this. Personally I’m 99.9% against the voting age being turned to 16, honestly if you did your homework you would notice that in germany it didn’t work because I quote from a teenager who spoke “kids our age don’t want to worry about that kind of stuff”. Well its a rough quote but you get the idea, plus a minority group of teens (lets say 100+) do not speak for the thousands of other teens who would much rather get drunk on voting day.

Plus Brian_177 do you really think that even if teenagers at the age of 16 were allowed to vote that they would make an educated vote rather than a completely biased one because there parents voted for them so they should too? Don’t say it doesn’t happen because even now it happens when people are aged 18, following in the fathers footsteps I guess you could call it.

Plain and simple, I’ve researched a bit on it and honestly it won’t help the voter turnouts one bit, maybe by a smudge…

5

I dont see how thats an argument against it, at all?

What does it matter if eligible adult voters spend the day getting drunk? nothing.

What should it matter if the majority of the 16-18 yo’s dont vote?

…?

another angle: what do we gain by not giving interested and demonstrably (relatively) mature citizens this right?

6

Look at it this way: what percentage of legally aged voters actually exercise their right to vote? Isn’t it something like 20%? I don’t think that’s going to raise much more if you make the voting age lower. If anything, I think LESS of that younger age bracket would vote.

When I turned 18, I voted once in a municipal election, once in a federal election, and haven’t voted since. I feel I’m not educated enough on all the candidates or issues to make a decision, so I don’t vote at all.

I only voted the first two times to get on the jury duty list… and I still haven’t been picked!

7

Although I think it’s a great idea for youth to express (or at least think about) their political opinions, I’m against lowering the voting age. My argument against lowering the voting age is simple: If one is given the right to vote, they should also be given the right to be elected. Teens are too young (i.e. don’t have enough education or life background) to be effective if elected (nor do many elected adults, but that is a different albeit related issue). Therefore, teens should not have the right to vote. I would, however, be in favor of some sort of youth government or at least giving youth opportunity to have input into issues relevant to them.

8

[quote=“smartass”]Look at it this way: what percentage of legally aged voters actually exercise their right to vote? Isn’t it something like 20%? I don’t think that’s going to raise much more if you make the voting age lower. If anything, I think LESS of that younger age bracket would vote.

When I turned 18, I voted once in a municipal election, once in a federal election, and haven’t voted since. I feel I’m not educated enough on all the candidates or issues to make a decision, so I don’t vote at all.

I only voted the first two times to get on the jury duty list… and I still haven’t been picked![/quote]

First, I’ll address your percentage. At the last federal election 60% of people allowed to vote voted… and this was the worst voting turnout since before the Dominion of Canada was named a country in 1867.

Next, your point that you have only used your right to vote twice, “I feel I’m not educated enough on all the candidates or issues to make a decision.” This is a good choice, but being uneducated isnt going tokeep 16 yo’s from voting.
If i remember correctly, at the last MLA election there was a Marajuana Party. Hmmmm… how many teens 16-18 smoke weed??? Don’t your think that a bunch of teens might go vote just because of what the party is named…

9

That’s a cool way of looking at it… i don’t know about chss, but in my grade 8 year (grade 10 now), student council started at prss… Why could “student coucil of prss” not be taken to a municipal level… I dont remember saying i wanted a $100,000 skateboard park. The money could have been better spent to build things that suit the needs of more ppl. OOOO ya… anyone from prss would know that we are completely replacing the lighting system in our school over the next year. Apparently the lights we have now are damaging to eyes in the long run… personally ive never heard of anyone sueing prss because the lights made them blind. The lighting stuff will cost over 15000 dollars…

Also, has anyone ever heard of “youth council” there is no voting… you just show up to meetings, and your in. I paid $300 dollars last summer to do my lifeguard training and found out just a week ago that ppl in "youth coucil gets it paid for the the government. I dont know about other ppl, but 300 dollars is a lot of money, and i’ve never seen or heard anything about “youth council” except from my friend.

I guess i went a bit off topic, just curious what other ppl thing about it.

10

Am I the only one who finds voting for a party based simply on their name ridiculous?

And about the percentages… I have no idea about how many people vote in any election, I’ve only heard it’s a small number compared to the actual allowable voters list. Maybe that was just Prince Rupert statistics… I have no idea.

11

No thats the point.
Not many eligible people vote now. (for whatever reasons).

By increasing the amount of eligible people, and possibly including people who are highly opinionated, less jaded and have some fresh ideas about how they want their world to be when they ‘inherit’ it from their jaded, lazy, mismanaging, self-serving parents, ** maybe we can improve voter turnout when newer generations grow up**.

I’m of the opionin that, even if ONE extra person votes because they opened up the age to 16, its a good thing, because one more person was empowered.

Everyone thinking that the Justin Timberlake party is going to sweep the next elections is out to fuckin lunch. Look at 16-18 year olds as a group : They are more divisive, independant and opinionated within their own groups than adults are. Teens might seem to be easy to peg in a retail market, but I’d bet selling them on politics enough to get their dope-addled slacker asses to the polls will be a whole lot tougher than selling them angry music.

So what if they dont have a pile of world experience??

What extra skillz does Bill Belsey have in representing us after being in business owning and operating a marine technical servies company? OH WAIT! KISSING ASS TO OIL AND GAS COMPANIES because his business or business niche stands to gain a pile of money if it happens.

Politics isnt rocket science. It’s designing, debating, and maintaining the will of the public, quite frankly I bet 99% of the skills necessary to do what politicians do (other than the schmoozing, or boozing and cruising a la g-c) could be taught in a 2 semester civics course in highschool. Fuck, add in an accounting portion and you’ll have yourself a crack team of Paul Martins comin outta high school year after year.

wait. scratch that last part.

I just hate it when people appeal to how THEY were at younger ages! "at age 15 i couldnt stop masturbating enough to drive a car! I dont think 15 year olds should drive a car!!! well fuck you! you were just an idiot, I was a pretty competent driver at 15. just dont tell the man.

12

Let’s not bring peoples political opinions into this, the topic was lowering the voting age to 16, not bashing Bill Belsey.

Plus, why do people in PR hate business people? If making friends in bigger things in ass kissing, we should all be ass kissing.

How come anybody in PR who does things to get themselves ahead dubbed a bad person?

13

[quote=“brian_177”]Let’s not bring peoples political opinions into this, the topic was lowering the voting age to 16, not bashing Bill Belsey.

Plus, why do people in PR hate business people? If making friends in bigger things in ass kissing, we should all be ass kissing.

How come anybody in PR who does things to get themselves ahead dubbed a bad person?[/quote]

Hate is a strong word. I personally dislike these “businessmen” because this town is going to shit, stores are closing all over the place, there is no work, and people are moving away like crazy. And the people with the opportunity to help this town out, aren’t. Especially the ones who have their hands right in there…“businessmen”. It’s a shame.

14

Do you accually believe that businessmen have an obligation to give you jobs so you can get money. Anyone who says that they cant get a job i a liar. If high school students can get a job at mcdonalds, so can you. What your saying is that you expect businessmen to give you stuff. Unlike the Sally Ann, businesses are not run to help people, they are run to make money, and if you expect businessmen to keep a business open just so you can have a job, that is incredibly selfish.

Many people (sorry for the generalization) have this idea that people who succeed, ie. businessmen, were given their success on a silver platter. In truth, any successful business person who is making money in PR is making money because of continuos dedication to their work and amazing hope that things will pick up in Rupert.

Also, don’t lie to yourself and say that if you had a business, that you would make sure you gave people jobs, and would stay in business, even if you were losing money, because you wouldnt.

You’re being very hippocritical. You think that businessmen have an obligation to give you money, because they have more than you. Thinking this, is what makes you hippocritical. Because as you say that businessmen are being selfish, you yourself are being selfish, envious of any person that has more success than you.

15

Businessmen don’t have any obligations, no. You’re right.

What are the MLA’s obligations? What is his job? To get people to move out of town in record numbers? To preside over the greatest economic collapse this community has ever seen?

16

[quote=“brian_177”]

You’re being very hippocritical. You think that businessmen have an obligation to give you money, because they have more than you. Thinking this, is what makes you hippocritical. Because as you say that businessmen are being selfish, you yourself are being selfish, envious of any person that has more success than you.[/quote]

I am not stupid, I do very well realize things do not come on a silver platter, believe me. I certainly do not expect anyone to give ME money, rather the community and its projects, and most of all to try and make this community better in its difficult times. I do not envy people’s success, I encourage it, most of the time. If I was in the position to help Prince Rupert out, I definitely would, but I am not. The actual point I was trying to make was that; this town needs people who have ideas for the city, and who would be able to invest in those ideas. Am I wrong to have this opinion? I think not.

17

It’s the businessmen that are trying to get offshore oil and gas going, that are trying to get the container port going, and it was a businessman that tryed to get the mill running again. If you did some research you’d find that businessmen are doing a huge amount of work as far as PR’s economy goes.

18

The economy in Northern BC does suck, but how can it be any local person’s fault? Decisions get made by a table of people. And last time I checked, the people sitting at this table weren’t out to get everyone. These people dedicate alot of their time worrying about the communities’ well being and obviously want nothing but the best.

19

I am totally aware that people in our community are trying to hold this city together. I didn’t say it was anyone’s fault in particular, I just believe more effort could be put into the issue. Offshore oil and gas is a long shot, is you ask me, and the container port won’t be finished for a while.
What worries me is that, things have been going downhill for a while and I see no view of anything expanding. It’s just makes me worried about the future of this wonderful little city.

20

Who came up with this idea? Is it for federal and provincial elections?

Being old doesn’t make you smart, Bush is a great example. I know a lot of folks well past 16 that vote the way they do because their parents did. Being young doesn’t make you stupid either, however with age comes wisdom, to some, whereas 16 year olds have a rather volatile brain chemistry that is much more succeptable to influence via media and the likes. Canada’s fastest growing age group is seniors who coincidently vote in record proportions and it makes me wonder if this 16 year voter age is an attemp to counter what will surely be an incredible force in Canadian and world politics for quite some time.

But what the hell do I know? I’m punch drunk!

“If you vote you have no right to complain because you put the bastards in power” - George Carlin