Leaders debate

The first leaders debate did not go well for Adrian Dix. He was clearly on the defensive and instead of offering solid rebuttal, seemed tongue tied and awkward. He has attempted to shift his environmental stance to the left, but was broad sided by Jane Sterk, on who’s turf he is trying to expand. She called him on his hypocrisy and won that little battle. John Cummins, while making very good points, is not a great communicator and has been embarrassed by the recent canning of three candidates. Clark was in control for most of the debate, and whether you support her or not, is far and away the best communicator of the bunch.

Summary of platforms:

Clark- Relying on resources and continued economic growth to reduce debt/deficit. Pro oil export if tough environmental standards are met.
Cummins- Economy and strict conservative financial stance to shrink debt. Strong resource commitment and will turf the carbon tax. Pro pipeline, period.
Dix- Big spending on programs with only additional taxes to pay for it. 3 more years of deficit, and no specifics on growing economy. No to oil export, maybe.
Sterk- Very clear on environmental stance, social programs. Not clear on economy or debt reduction. Anti oil export, period.

[quote=“crazy Horse”] Clark was in control for most of the debate, and whether you support her or not, is far and away the best communicator of the bunch.
[/quote]

The best communicator who makes up stuff during debates. :smile: As it stands now Dix has a 14 point lead in the polls. As long as Dix does not make a serious mistake in the debates he should prevail.

Christy Clark Will Say Anything in the Debates

[quote=“crazy Horse”]The first leaders debate did not go well for Adrian Dix. He was clearly on the defensive and instead of offering solid rebuttal, seemed tongue tied and awkward. He has attempted to shift his environmental stance to the left, but was broad sided by Jane Sterk, on who’s turf he is trying to expand. She called him on his hypocrisy and won that little battle. John Cummins, while making very good points, is not a great communicator and has been embarrassed by the recent canning of three candidates. Clark was in control for most of the debate, and whether you support her or not, is far and away the best communicator of the bunch.

Summary of platforms:

Clark- Relying on resources and continued economic growth to reduce debt/deficit. Pro oil export if tough environmental standards are met.
Cummins- Economy and strict conservative financial stance to shrink debt. Strong resource commitment and will turf the carbon tax. Pro pipeline, period.
Dix- Big spending on programs with only additional taxes to pay for it. 3 more years of deficit, and no specifics on growing economy. No to oil export, maybe.
Sterk- Very clear on environmental stance, social programs. Not clear on economy or debt reduction. Anti oil export, period.[/quote]

Interesting analysis. Is this your opinion or the opinion of MSM or what? I can’t read the Vancouver Sun or Province online because I have run out of my free reads for the month so I am stuck with the following. I make no claim that these are the best sources. That’s why I am asking for your source.

HuffingtonPost readers give the edge to Dix.
huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/26 … more294236

No poll, but the readers comments indicate a dislike for Clark’s performance.
cbc.ca/news/canada/bcvotes20 … ebate.html

The blogger who hates Christy Clark more than anybody but his analysis is still worth a read.
alexgtsakumis.com/2013/04/26/ckn … tion-2013/

And somebody who is the least biased of all indicates that both took hits but that Clark did nothing to improve her standing.
harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/

Certainly interesting how people can see the same thing and come away with entirely different viewpoints.

Clear your cookies, or use Incognito Mode or Privacy Mode on your browser.

[quote=“MiG”]

Clear your cookies, or use Incognito Mode or Privacy Mode on your browser.[/quote]

Thanks Mig. I guess I have 10 (now nine) more articles until my next clearing.

Vaughn Palmer gives the edge to Scherk. Felt Dix was evasive on Kinder Morgan and raised some doubts about himself. But he didn’t think much of Clark either.
vancouversun.com/news/bc-ele … story.html

Just wondering if there is a source out there that gave Clark a clearcut victory.

I’m glad this election is in two weeks. I won’t miss all of the BS (phone calls, debates, attacks ads, etc.)

[quote=“DWhite”]
Just wondering if there is a source out there that gave Clark a clearcut victory.[/quote]

No source, I listened to the debate.

I didn’t say Clark won a clearcut victory, I said Dix had a tough day.

[quote=“DWhite”]
Interesting analysis. Is this your opinion or the opinion of MSM or what? I can’t read the Vancouver Sun or Province online because I have run out of my free reads for the month so I am stuck with the following. I make no claim that these are the best sources. That’s why I am asking for your source.

HuffingtonPost readers give the edge to Dix.
huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/26 … more294236

No poll, but the readers comments indicate a dislike for Clark’s performance.
cbc.ca/news/canada/bcvotes20 … ebate.html

The blogger who hates Christy Clark more than anybody but his analysis is still worth a read.
alexgtsakumis.com/2013/04/26/ckn … tion-2013/

And somebody who is the least biased of all indicates that both took hits but that Clark did nothing to improve her standing.
harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/

Certainly interesting how people can see the same thing and come away with entirely different viewpoints.[/quote]

I learned a long time ago that the comments section of a given media outlet are not a true measurement. Read comments on any topic on Huffington Post and then read same on the National Post. Night and day.

[quote=“crazy Horse”]

[quote=“DWhite”]
Interesting analysis. Is this your opinion or the opinion of MSM or what? I can’t read the Vancouver Sun or Province online because I have run out of my free reads for the month so I am stuck with the following. I make no claim that these are the best sources. That’s why I am asking for your source.

Certainly interesting how people can see the same thing and come away with entirely different viewpoints.[/quote]

I learned a long time ago that the comments section of a given media outlet are not a true measurement. Read comments on any topic on Huffington Post and then read same on the National Post. Night and day.[/quote]

No doubt. And I learned a long time ago -well at least since we began discussing this election - that the comments of crazy horse (and of course DWhite) are not a true measure either.

Certainly, Dix took some hits, particularly on Kinder Morgan and he needs to clarify that. If I am understanding what I have read, he can do that on Monday. But you also said “Clark was in control for most of the debate”. From everything I have read that is far from accurate. As the front runner, Dix had the most to lose, but for the person who had the most to gain (she can form the next government) she didn’t do anything to improve her standing. Scherk and Cummins each with nothing to lose did well but that’s just as likely to hurt the Liberals as much as it will the NDP.

All in all, I will stick with my original assessment: It is certainly interesting how people can see the same thing and come away with entirely different points of view.

I ust have heard a different debate. Or maybe crazyhorse wrote Clark’s lines.
Never mind I mislead you since day one, and I’m lying now, back in 1999 Mr Dix …

When I hit the limit on the newspaper sites, I just open a different browser. Safari, Firefox, Chrome. That’s enough for a month.

Fair enough. However, your analysis is not exactly objective.

hmmmmmm guess Dix wants us to go back to the stoneage for he forgets that the resource sector is what BC is about :stuck_out_tongue:

vancouversun.com/business/bc … story.html

vancouversun.com/news/bc-ele … story.html

I listened to the debate, and to be honest, I don’t know how anyone could spin that as a win for Clark. She was rude. She interrupted incessantly to launch negative attacks. She clearly doesn’t understand that the negativity is hurting her enormously. But most importantly she didn’t seem to have anything other than repetitive talking points. Many of those talking points have been discredited on analysis. CBC’s reality check series, by my count, is 5 to 1 against the Liberal spin. The latest one might be the most significant, because the $3B in spending that the Liberals are claiming the NDP have committed to simply isn’t true. Nor is the “thousands of lost jobs during the 90’s” claim. Okay, so maybe some people want to believe the spin because they can’t imagine voting for anyone else. Fair enough. Maybe some on the left are guilty of the same thing. Maybe I am too. That’s what makes it a debate, and healthy debate is, well, healthy. In my opinion, what Clark is offering isn’t healthy debate of the issues. Rather, it is a somewhat desperate attempt to relive a time when the anti-NDP spin had some success, and the many skeletons in the Liberal closet were profoundly less public.
Personally, I’m willing to acknowledge that Dix was shaky on the Kinder Morgan point. However, there are many in BC who are now feeling that development is a positive thing, but development at all costs has been going on too long, and has benefitted only those who are already wealthy. They are looking for measured, carefully considered development, where environmental considerations are no longer simply “inconvenient”. And in the debate, Clark was terrible on child poverty and transparency, and is simply wrong on the “balanced” budget. She want’s us to trust that somewhere down the road LNG will solve everything. She can’t promise that because nobody can. Full of shallow talking points, devoid of specific understandings, and add nastiness, and she gets a fail on this debate.

development at all costs has been going on too long, and has benefitted only those who are already wealthy

Gee! Someone else seems to have noticed!
I’m thinking back to when our company took over the last in town competitor, just before the Libs took office. We had 880 dialup customers. Not everyone with Internet was a customer of ours.
Today the power went off all up Hwy 27 and Hydro reported 615 customers out of service in the Fort. Everyone with Hydro is a customer of theirs.
Has you town shrunk to half under the Liberal watch? Has any resource town Beyond Hope grown under their watch?
Keep flappin’ those gums Christy…

[quote=“teacher”]I listened to the debate, and to be honest, I don’t know how anyone could spin that as a win for Clark. She was rude. She interrupted incessantly to launch negative attacks. She clearly doesn’t understand that the negativity is hurting her enormously. But most importantly she didn’t seem to have anything other than repetitive talking points. Many of those talking points have been discredited on analysis. CBC’s reality check series, by my count, is 5 to 1 against the Liberal spin. The latest one might be the most significant, because the $3B in spending that the Liberals are claiming the NDP have committed to simply isn’t true. Nor is the “thousands of lost jobs during the 90’s” claim. Okay, so maybe some people want to believe the spin because they can’t imagine voting for anyone else. Fair enough. Maybe some on the left are guilty of the same thing. Maybe I am too. That’s what makes it a debate, and healthy debate is, well, healthy. In my opinion, what Clark is offering isn’t healthy debate of the issues. Rather, it is a somewhat desperate attempt to relive a time when the anti-NDP spin had some success, and the many skeletons in the Liberal closet were profoundly less public.
Personally, I’m willing to acknowledge that Dix was shaky on the Kinder Morgan point. However, there are many in BC who are now feeling that development is a positive thing, but development at all costs has been going on too long, and has benefitted only those who are already wealthy. They are looking for measured, carefully considered development, where environmental considerations are no longer simply “inconvenient”. And in the debate, Clark was terrible on child poverty and transparency, and is simply wrong on the “balanced” budget. She want’s us to trust that somewhere down the road LNG will solve everything. She can’t promise that because nobody can. Full of shallow talking points, devoid of specific understandings, and add nastiness, and she gets a fail on this debate.[/quote]

That is rich coming from a teacher, you don’t know jack shit about industry development…it has no effect on your employment…you get to sit back and collect your government paid salary.

You don’t work for the private sector, you are not a mill workers, you are not a general labourer at the Coal or grain terminal, your not an electrician for the container terminal, your not a shipping agent or a border control agent…you are not ANY of those things…so what gives you the right to sit there behind your classroom desk and say that development in industry only benefits the wealthy! That is OUTRAGEOUS. Industrial development is the LIFE blood of this city and the lives of the people who work there.

The development that is happening in this city (Ridley Expansion, Container Terminale, Pinnacle) has directly resulted in people I know moving back to this city and obtaining great jobs…non of these people would be considered “wealthy”, they are just hard working honest British Columbians who are trying to make a decent wage to buy a house and support their families and live the Canadian dream…how DARE these people hope for development.

The part of your post about development is just so insulting and entitled…and everything that is wrong with this province.

@Bthedog. Well, since you responded, I have to suggest that you missed my point. I was commenting on the radio debate. Clark lost. Regarding development, I am in favor of it. In fact, I DO know “jack sxxt” about industry, based on previous working life, the courses I have taught, and several decades of living in this community. I am simply in favor of development that is carefully measured, and respects the environmental implications as part of the equation. I am delighted when it results in good jobs for regular folks. All of the developments you cited, I recognize the positive impacts. However, when we look at the last 12 years in a broader way, we discover that the gap between rich and poor has widened exponentially. Google “the gap between rich and poor in Canada”, and find a site that suggests it has closed, rather than widened. You won’t find one. Maybe the wealthy need to be part of the solution to that. My comment was specific to Kinder Morgan, and I am suggesting that the trend of public opinion has shifted towards “responsible” development, and away from “unrestricted” development.

Spolier alert for tomorrows debate.
Bthedog,crazy, and jabber will all give the clear edge to Clark and think she hit a homerun in some sort of fashion.
Teaher will think Clark was the worst and Dix did well.
Hitest will be tired of the same old bs, Herbie in pretty much same boat,dwhite will wonder who they thought won.
I personally voted Liberal last time and will listen to Ms Clark continue to annoy the hell out of me enough to vote NDP this time around and hope Dix does well because he will likely be our next Premiere.

hate to break it to you chookie I didn’t say she won the debate, the articles I posted where to show where Adrian Dix stands on resource development in this province, he keeps saying no no no, or we need to study it, etc. in other words no. Oh also his stated stance on principles where he won’t prejudge anything about moving oil through kinder morgan’s pipeline for he has principles, then during the debate he said no based on his principles to allowing it to go ahead. so which principles are we to believe the one to judge after a review or the latest where he says no before they even put it to a review. that is a great way for him to attract business money into this province.

I heard that if the NDP get elected Adrian is going to bail out the pulp mill. Just as Glen Clark did in 2001!!!