Latest BC Liberal Lying Sack of @%^#

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41

I don’t know if there is a legal definition somewhere about what counts as a single word. Judges quite often consider dictionary definitions. Perhaps there are some precedents that could be applied where similar issues have been decided. In any event the judge would decide whether MLA is one word (an acronym) or five words (an initialism) ultimately by interpreting what the legislature must have intended when it required a word count.

It’s not like in the absence of an authoritative definition somewhere the court will just walk away from the problem by opting for what the parties happen to think. That won’t happen; that would be a poor basis for setting a precedent. What people at large think is also problematic, since as you point out a lot of people don’t even know what MLA stands for, while others no doubt do. What is “common sense” in any particular situation can be hard to define, especially without clear consensus.

The reason why I think a judge would say that MLA stands for five words is because legal draftsmen in Victoria don’t appear to use or define “MLA” at all. I don’t think that you will find it in any statutes. The correct one word shorthand is “Member”, not MLA. I think that the logic will be that if the petitioners intended to use one word they would have said “Member”, which is defined to mean “Member of the Legislative Assembly”.

But that’s just what I think … we really don’t know unless someone takes it to court, which will not be necessary since Zalm’s people have revised the paperwork so that the anti-recall people will not be able to raise the issue. That’s a positive outcome of all this controversy.

I am sure that under that scenario neo-cons would encourage people to mock the judicial system rather than the legislators who make the laws that the judiciary must apply and enforce. Attacks on the independence of the judiciary are a worrisome trend in our politics, especially since Harper has been in office.

Well, hopefully all of that bottled up hatred and contempt will be expelled soon so that whoever constitutes the government can present and begin to work on a positive program for change in the province, possibly with a few fresh ideas here or there. BC seems to be a pretty grim place to be a citizen these days.

42

You’ve asked me this before, and I’ll give the same answer as before: I don’t really care either way about the HST. It hasn’t affected me–I mean, I notice that some things cost a bit more, but seeing as how I’m not making big purchases the extra cost isn’t a big deal. That in mind, it would be the height of hubris for me to support OR oppose the tax.

Incidentally, as often happens when you try and get a black and white answer out of me, neither the question nor the answer have anything to do with the statements I’ve made in this thread thus far.

43

Do you support the Liberals bringing in the HST, eccentric?

44

[quote=“DWhite”] I … forgot to comment on your apparent support of Craig James.
I am only speculating but this is what seems to be bothering many people. He was put in power without any consultation with the opposition. This position is supposed to be a unanimous decision of the legislature. He has made decisions, some controversial but that probably has to be accepted.
[/quote]

“Apparent support”? Because I don’t find your allegations about James to be persuasive doesn’t mean that I support James. Civil servants are not like politicians; they don’t require our support in order to stay in office. They just need to fulfill their employment contracts.

As for James’ appointment without a unanimous decision of a bi-partisan special committee (not the entire legislature), let’s back up a bit. By law Chief Electoral Officers serve for two general elections plus a year. There was an election in May 2009, and low and behold the former CEO’s term ended a year later. Is it James’ fault that a committee was not appointed well in advance to select a successor or that they still have not gotten around to making a decision? It seems to me that both parties have some responsibilities for those shortcomings.

[quote=“DWhite”] … But two things really bother me. The first is the dismissal of the deputy who had 28 years experience. James is a lifelong bureaucrat but had no experience at Elections BC. As an acting CEO and I emphasize acting he made the decision to get rid of the most experienced person in the office because of - I think I recall - changes that would be occurring. The guy is acting CEO and he is contemplating changes that involve getting rid of senior people who perhaps should have had the job he was given. Remember too that James’ predecessor and the deputy had made decisions that were not popular with the government. All of this is easy stuff get people speculating.
[/quote]

Yes, Linda Johnson and others at Elections BC ruled against the government’s pro-HST brochure. However, her account of the circumstances of her dismissal does not support your speculations or conspiracy theory. The Globe & Mail reported:

"She said on Thursday she would not make a connection between her loss of job and the decision against mailing out the brochures. “He said he was reorganizing Elections BC and I have no reason to think otherwise,” Ms. Johnson said. “Organizations get restructured all the time.” (Globe & Mail Sept 9/10)

As for your concern about James being Acting, I don’t think that it is very realistic to think that someone in an acting capacity should do something less than the entire job. Would you say that as Acting CEO Craig James should not have approved the HST petition? Do you think that he should told Zalm: “Sorry, I’m only acting”.

[quote=“DWhite”]
The second issue is the requirement that all canvassers have to resubmit their applications. This just seems like an unnecessary hoop. Maybe it is a required hoop, I don’t know…[/quote]

The canvassers will get over it.

45

[quote=“BTravenn”]

Yes, Linda Johnson and others at Elections BC ruled against the government’s pro-HST brochure. However, her account of the circumstances of her dismissal does not support your speculations or conspiracy theory. The Globe & Mail reported:

"She said on Thursday she would not make a connection between her loss of job and the decision against mailing out the brochures. “He said he was reorganizing Elections BC and I have no reason to think otherwise,” Ms. Johnson said. “Organizations get restructured all the time.” (Globe & Mail Sept 9/10)

As for your concern about James being Acting, I don’t think that it is very realistic to think that someone in an acting capacity should do something less than the entire job. Would you say that as Acting CEO Craig James should not have approved the HST petition? Do you think that he should told Zalm: “Sorry, I’m only acting”. [/quote]

I remember that article well because I quoted from it back in September. Here are some other paragraphs from that article.

Ms. Johnson said she met with acting chief electoral officer Craig James on Tuesday and was shocked to learn that her 28 years at Elections BC would come to an end.“I was advised by Mr. James that he was reorganizing Elections BC and that my position as deputy chief electoral officer had been eliminated effective immediately,” Ms. Johnson said from her home in Victoria. She has had the job since 1991.

She was among a handful of executives at Elections BC who ruled against allowing the government’s pro-HST brochures to be mailed. The brochures were an effort by the B.C. Liberals to explain the HST, but Elections BC ruled that they were an indirect promotion.

She said on Thursday she would not make a connection between her loss of job and the decision against mailing out the brochures. “He said he was reorganizing Elections BC and I have no reason to think otherwise,” Ms. Johnson said. “Organizations get restructured all the time.”

Ms. Johnson’s dismissal comes only three months after Elections BC lost its chief electoral officer, Harry Neufeld, in June. “It’s a lot of change for an organization,” said Ms. Johnson, who is in the process of settling a severance package.

Mr. James was appointed acting CEO until an all-party commission decides on a permanent position in the coming months. Mr. James was not available for comment. “The acting CEO is restructuring the organization and eliminated that position as part of the restructuring,” said spokesman Don Mills. He would not comment on other changes that Election BC may be making.

Normally I am not one to shout conspiracy. Maybe Craig James has been put in a difficult situation and none of this is his fault.

However don’t you find it somewhat surprising that he was selected rather than Linda Johnson or Harry Neufeld to fill in until a permanent CEO could be found?

Don’t you find it surprising that somebody who is technically there on an interim basis would make the major decision of eliminating the most senior person on staff?

Don’t you find it surprising that the spokesman couldn’t comment on the restructuring and that Craig James wasn’t available for comment?

And while not surprising, don’t you find it interesting that Linda Johnson is negotiating a severance package and that may be why she can’t make any connections.

Of course James has to act in his acting capacity. But how often do organizations get restructured by someone who is filling in on a temporary basis unless they were brought in specifically to make those changes. Linda Johnson was shocked, so I can only conclude that she had no idea that restructuring was in the works.

We can both draw our own conclusions from all of this.

46

I don’t know if there is any “fault” here. Has there been a court case or an arbitrator’s decision where wrong doing against Linda Johnson was alleged? To give a comparison, two federal civil servants were wrongly accused of going on a lavish trip to the UK with their wives, defamed by a cabinet minister, then dismissed. They went to arbitration and won substantial compensation. There isn’t a hint of anything like that here.

I don’t have any reaction other than that having been in government 28 years Linda Johnson may be approaching retirement. The situation is too obscure to draw any conclusions.

Here’s what the Georgia Straight (hardly sympathetic to the Liberals) said about Neufeld last May: “For the sake of public confidence in the system, perhaps Neufeld should announce that he will retire on June 4. Given the dismal turnout in the last provincial election, it’s hard to see why a legislative committee would want to reappoint him anyway.”

Not at all. What Linda Johnson said about the restructuring sounds credible. The government has been in cut-back mode because of the deficit. James, who by all accounts is well experienced, may have been sent to Elections BC specifically to restructure and find savings, since he should have no or few loyalties to anyone that works there or to past ways of doing things.

I would not read too much into that. Sometimes civil servants really aren’t available. I would read more into a politician not being available. Restructurings have to be handled delicately. It’s not very good when people find out through the media that they may be out of a job.

I would find it more interesting if she had taken the government to arbitration, which as I understand it is how managers there resolve serious disputes. I don’t know what you mean by “any connections”.

I wouldn’t be surprised if James was specifically brought in to make changes. That doesn’t reflect on his character though, or mean that he is some kind of political hack. I’m not sure if government ever stops restructuring and its best that career civil servants manage those changes.

47

[quote=“BTravenn”]
I would find it more interesting if she had taken the government to arbitration, which as I understand it is how managers there resolve serious disputes. I don’t know what you mean by “any connections”.

I wouldn’t be surprised if James was specifically brought in to make changes. That doesn’t reflect on his character though, or mean that he is some kind of political hack. I’m not sure if government ever stops restructuring and its best that career civil servants manage those changes.[/quote]

The connections I am referring to is her quote from the paragraph you gave us. "She said on Thursday she would not make a connection between her loss of job and the decision against mailing out the brochures. “He said he was reorganizing Elections BC and I have no reason to think otherwise,” Ms. Johnson said. “Organizations get restructured all the time.” (Globe & Mail Sept 9/10)

My point is that she will not make a connection because her negotiations regarding a severance package may involve some form of non-disclosure type stuff.

But I give up. You win. Craig James is an innocent bystander. He is just doing his best trying to balance his job with the BC Liberal Lying Sacks of @%^#.

You might be interested in Vaughn Palmer’s story about the announcement of Craig James’ appointment.
communities.canada.com/vancouver … tid=671247

48

[quote=“DWhite”]

But I give up. You win. Craig James is an innocent bystander. He is just doing his best trying to balance his job with the BC Liberal Lying Sacks of @%^#.

You might be interested in Vaughn Palmer’s story about the announcement of Craig James’ appointment.
communities.canada.com/vancouver … tid=671247[/quote]

Heh come on eh, I had a hunch Mike de Jong was the real evil doer. Geez.

49

This from a blogger on Georgia Strait so I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the Baldrey quote.

Secondly, Baldrey said that Craig James actually did Vander Zalm a favour - if Ida Chong had been successfully Recalled - she could have Appealed the Recall based on the letter of the legislation.

Assuming that Baldrey did say that, then you and Baldrey agree. Given that Baldrey has been noted to be a mouthpiece for the government and that his wife apparently works for the Liberals (another blogger at the site) then obviously you cannot be right. I win by default.

And back to the word count. From the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America website.

In publishing, you are most concerned with space: the space a story or article will take up when published… Some words are long, some words are short. So, years ago, publishers set up a standard definition: a word is six characters (including spaces).

sfwa.org/2005/01/what-is-a-word/

That would certainly solve any problem BC Elections would have in the future. Count the characters including spaces. Divide by six. Problem completely solved.

50

What about Chinese or other non-English characters? In a name, for example?

51

We wouldn’t be having this discussion if Jesus had written the petition.

Recall Ida Chong. She is a BC Liberal Lying Sack of @%^# and a ^&@* moron. Less than 20 words.

52

I don’t really care about the tax, so I don’t really care about the way he brought it in. Apparently they said they didn’t think they were going to, but then they did–and clearly much of the electorate is unhappy with the way the tax was unveiled over the following months. But Campbell is stepping aside, and my initial comments weren’t specific to the HST, anyways.

53

Words to remember next election, I think.

54

I’m confused… I need to remember?

55

[quote=“sandimas”]

Words to remember next election, I think.[/quote]

Sums up the Liberal attitude nicely.

56

[quote=“DWhite”]We wouldn’t be having this discussion if Jesus had written the petition.

Recall Ida Chong. She is a BC Liberal Lying Sack of @%^# and a ^&@* moron. Less than 20 words.[/quote]

It would be more like fuck that bitch ida chong. Recall her dumb ass. Bitch being 2 words according to elections bc word counting rules; )

57

Excuse me, but I was quite clear why I don’t care all that much about the HST. It’s not an attitude, it’s just a lack of opinion.

58

[quote=“eccentric”]

I don’t really care about the tax, so I don’t really care about the way he brought it in. Apparently they said they didn’t think they were going to, but then they did–and clearly much of the electorate is unhappy with the way the tax was unveiled over the following months. But Campbell is stepping aside, and my initial comments weren’t specific to the HST, anyways.[/quote]

You must like giving your money away!

59

[quote=“gum”]The Liberals are far from perfect. However the socialists are immeasurably worse. I agree that the Liberals will be reelected. If the socialists ever regain power in this province I and many others will flee to Alberta.

As far as the minimum wage goes, if you want more pay, you have a few options. Get an education. Get some job experience and learn some skills. Move somewhere where your skills are in demand. Or open your own business and see how easy it is to be an employer.

Five years from now the same government will be in power and the same group of people will be whining about it.[/quote]

Yeah and the same fuckers who are raking it in will still be raking it in if not more so. What a bullshit fucked up world we live in. Everyone is equal except that some are more equal than others.

60

There is a pie on the table but some people feel they are “entitled” to WAY MORE than their share. Until this attitude changes the rest of us will get screwed. I can’t see that ever happening. People as a whole are selfish and greedy. I don’t see that EVER changing as long as humans exist. Please note that I put myself in this boat with the rest of humanity. But I am willing to share if it means Me and my family can a little of that pie. “Say you want a revolution. Well you know we all want to change the world.”