First, I don’t understand the preoccupation with Joy Thorkelson, who has been the title of several dubious threads of late. Like, what gives …? Second, I think a couple of comments published here stray close to or past the limits of fair comment and respect for the rights of others. I made a similar comment on a previous thread named after her.
You obviously don’t understand satire. I was making fun of the idiot who was making groundless accusations against Joy and thus, in effect, defending Joy.
As for “the rights of others” - we were just talking about whether or not Shenanigans was a gay bar. I don’t think anyone was slagging gays.
Guess you’re not the kind of person who appreciates South Park or comedians like Sarah Silverman.
Actually, I was referring to comments in the thread specifically about Ms Thorkelson. They’re not satirical; they’re dumb at best and at worst something else. If you want to have a thread called, say, “Max Power’s favorite gay bars”, fly at it … I just think you should keep Joy’s name out of it. That’s all.
When we were in Maui I kept hearing ads for a bar there and Wednesday’s were “Alternative Nights”. I’m pretty sure they weren’t playing grunge and industrial music all night so it had to be the other option. So a part-time gay bar is not unheard of.
A lot worse things have been said on this site about people like Herb Pond or Gordon Campbell, don’t see what the problem is with this thread.
Well, follow that logic through and where you end up is that pure speculation about whether Messrs Pond and Campbell drink in gay bars and what they might have been looking for there could not be a problem because worse has been said about them. I suspect that a thread about such a tawdry subject matter would attract some posts.
Personally I agreed with you when you said the following about some events concerning Mr Campbell that were real and not at all speculative:
I was a bit less sympathetic but not strongly opposed when you said about some other real events:
If memory serves me right, in less than a month there have been six Joy Thorkelson threads, all of which have been based on nothing but speculation about a person whose reputation the law protects no less than the rest of us. All but this thread have been sent to Wasteland. The fixation has been rather bizarre.
We are entitled to draw reasonable inferences about an individual, including about their character, where there are supporting facts … but unlike with others there are no facts about Ms Thorkelson. That is where the line is crossed from “fair comment” to defaming someone. I suggest that it is time to move on … or to ask “Why are we still talking about this?”
This thread was meant as a joke though, and all the other ones regarding Ms. Thorkelson ended up in the wasteland, three of which were by the same person. And how about the thread “Career paths for H Pond”? Some people would no doubt find that offensive, especially the picture of what looks like some kind of stripper with his face pasted on.
[quote=“Creaking Door”]
We are entitled to draw reasonable inferences about an individual, including about their character, where there are supporting facts … but unlike with others there are no facts about Ms Thorkelson. That is where the line is crossed from “fair comment” to defaming someone. I suggest that it is time to move on … or to ask “Why are we still talking about this?” [/quote]
The defaming and/or potentially defaming threads were moved to the Wasteland and locked. My post was satirical and not defaming in any way.
Thorkelson is a public figure, a city councilor and prominent union rep, and is going to brought up from time to time. That’s just the way it goes. I’m sure we haven’t seen the last posts about Herb or Gary or Jack either.
As for your question, why are we still talking about this? - what are you talking about? It was a joke thread that evolved (as all threads do; they never stay on the same topic) into a discussion about whether or not Shenanigans was a gay bar, plain and simple. It was actually you’re unreasonable reaction that brought her name back up!
Shenanigans was a horse.
Shenanigans was a grey Thoroughbred 1975 Broodmare of the Year mare. She was the dam of Ruffian, the great filly who was euthanized when she broke a leg in 1975. Her record was 22: 3-1-6, and she ran in the Maryland Futurity. Unfortunately, the broken leg of Ruffian seemed to run in the family.
This whole thread would lead a reasonable person to believe that Joy is gay.
Unless shes openly gay, this could be legally twisted to show defamation of her character.
Not even close on both counts.
I am not the only one to feel that this should go to wasteland.
so close enough maxi
How does this thread lead any “reasonable person” to assume what you have said. Look at the thread. The only connection to “gay” was that Shenanigans could be a homosexual male watering hole on some evenings. No one called Joy a gay man (I can’t believe I need to type that caveat), so how can a allusion to Joy’s sexuality be a reasonable summary of the thread? Reading into it too much, perhaps?
That the gathering date may only happen once per week at the bar, if at all, was what me and Max were bantering about. I believe he began this thread as a play on words from other threads that suggest a lot wrong doing without a smittance of proof.
Okay, let’s look at the thread:
What is sometimes passed off as humorous is really just a hoax at the expense of someone else. When others don’t get it or object the response is that it was “satire” or some other variety of obscure wit. Some South Park style comments that are the opposite of satire may be thrown in for good measure.
If some of you want a thread about the gay bar scene in Vancouver and what sexual preferences certain people may or may not have, I suggest that you put your own names at the top of the thread and just have a discussion about yourselves, between consenting adults as it were. Local politicians or others who have not consented should not be brought into a discussion that has nothing to do with their public offices.
You have noticeably selected that which suits your argument and have ignored the rest of the thread. Interesting.
But for info sake here is what the Media Awareness Network
says about discrimination:
I am going to change every mention of “J0y Th0rkelson” in this thread to say “Sheila Gordon-Payne.”
Is that ok with you guys?
Uh-oh.
Perhaps there needs to be consideration as to what we are really typing.
As far as what Max and I were debating, one cannot say that we were alluding to anything more than pursuing the issue of whether or not Shenanigans had a gay night. I assumed Max and I were eventually heading down a road (WARNING: The next few words are meant as a joke, are intended for a humourous audience. For those with a serious humour deficiency in their bones, please read no further) that would see us meet up, and enjoy in the Shenanigan revelry (See a joke. Only a joke).
The crack about “the wrong kind of sailors” was to say it would be ridiculous for Joy to be there, which was Max’s real intent in the first place.
Pff. For a website that has no problem slagging many members of our community, its become very sensitive around here.
Honestly, I though that this thread was a funny reference to the battery of posts by “Person who thinks he is anonymous, but really isn’t” making some slanderous and libelous statements against Thorkelson. ie: that she’s done something wrong and that a video exists.
That’s not the case, and whenever “Person who thinks he is anonymous, but really isn’t” posts that, we move it to the wasteland. If I were Thorkelson, I would have asked me for “person’s” identity by now, to file an easy to win lawsuit.
This thread was started by Max Power not to slag Thorkelson, I don’t think. But perhaps others have taken the opportunity to do so. Saying that it’s ok to slander someone just because we keep posting negative things about Gordon Campbell or Herb Pond is just crap. Both Gordon Campbell and Herb Pond broke the law while in office, and both have admitted it.
To make accusations against Thorkelson is another matter. If you’re going to do so, then be prepared to defend a lawsuit. I’m not going to defend it for you.
The simple test to see if this thread is just a joke is to change the name to Sheila Gordon-Payne (or whichever other politician you support) and see if you’re still ok with it. If not, then there you go. If it’s still funny, then great.
Oh, and as a rule, I try not to moderate threads that I take part in. Since I’ve made some remarks about Shenanigans and Days of Our Lives, I’ll leave it to the other moderators to decide what to do with this thread.
I heard that Sheila Gordon-Payne was spotted once having a glass of wine and a Fillet Mignon at Gotham’s in Vancouver. I don’t have video of it though.
And why stop there…
I heard that Jack Mussallem was spotted once having a meeting and a discussio in City Hall’s council chambers in Vancouver. I don’t have video of it though.
I heard that Kathy Bedard was spotted once having a milkshake and a cheese burger at Brad’s in Port Ed. I don’t have video of it though.
I heard that Gina Garon was spotted once having a laugh and a smile on the streets of Prince Rupert. I don’t have video of it though.
I heard that Anna Ashley was spotted once having dancing the irish jig at the drunken barn dance. I don’t have video of it though.
I heard that Nelson Kinney… oh nevermind.
No it’s not okay, for exactly the same rationale as I have already given.
That is not how the thread was opened, and one CAN say that more was alluded to. It depends on where posters take it. Likewise with Bakerwriter’s numerous further examples.
As mssash has pointed out, the test is that of a “reasonable” person, ie the standard is “objective” not “subjective”. An “objective” test means what a court or tribunal thinks ordinary fair-minded citizens would consider to be defamatory. The author’s actual intent or what they think is reasonable would be irrelevant. I expect the same would apply if a “discrimination” complaint was made.
I have only quoted what is relevant to the issue at hand.