It’s my understanding there is a “Glass Desert” near the site of Sodom in Libya which dates to the time of this incident. The glass was most likely created by an event similar to that which happened at Tunguska.
Maybe God did smite them.
[quote=“Soggy”]It’s my understanding there is a “Glass Desert” near the site of Sodom in Libya which dates to the time of this incident. The glass was most likely created by an event similar to that which happened at Tunguska.
Maybe God did smite them.[/quote]
I have no doubt that the storytellers used some event - factual or legendary - on which to base many of their accounts. When historical evidence is used to prove a story could have happened, believers accept the facts readily. When science or history proves a story impossible or factually wrong, they reject it.
[quote=“Huh?”]
My thinking, based on my extensive theological education, is that Lot’s wife looks back because she wants to see it burn. Why not? It’s pretty unusual to have a whole city burn down in a day. It might have been exciting to her. But excitement, when it doesn’t involve incest, is pretty much an evil act in the bible. So she of course turns in to that pillar of salt.[/quote]
It would be exciting. If she faced the the city and was blinded it would make sense. But turning to salt or being liquidated by some blast shouldn’t be determined by which way she was looking. Unless, she stopped and didn’t get out of range like Lot and his daughters. Another failure to heed God’s warning. I have no idea why she looked back but I think she was missing the place already.
This next story drives me crazy.
For some reason God decides to test Abraham. Take your son, the one I promised you, and sacrifice him. And Abraham does. Well, he has the knife above his head before God intervenes but he was ready to.
First question: Why does God need to test us? Can’t he already see what is in our hearts? Doesn’t he already know how we will act? I guess we have free will, but not to God as he will already know what we are going to do. So if the future is already played out did we really have a choice in the matter?
Second question: What was Abraham thinking? He has talked to God before so he must have recognized the voice, but unlike the situation in Sodom he hardly protests. Isn’t he worried that it might be an evil spirit of some kind mimicking god. And I can only imagine what would go through my head. Is God testing me? Am I to trust him at all costs? What if he’s testing my blind faith? What if he is worried that a snake might tell me to do something bad and he wants to make sure I won’t do it, that I will stand up to outrageous demands.
Several years ago, I discussed this with a minister and his take was that we had to obey. We had to trust God. I told him that it was crazy to believe a voice, even if you thought it was God, when it told you to do something so obviously wrong as kill a child. He was convinced otherwise.
Third question: What was Isaac thinking? “My dad has a knife pointed at me? What did I ever do wrong?” And then later, how would he feel around his father? “What other voices might he hear and what might he do next time?”
There has to be some explanation for this story because as written I can’t accept its message.
Without a new post in three days, I noticed that today alone, over 60 people viewed this thread which encouraged me to post again.
The next story in Genesis is particularly clever and can be analyzed and enjoyed on both a secular and religious level…
Having survived his almost murder at the hands of his father, Isaac marries Rebecca and after several years of barrenness (a common theme in the Bible), she becomes pregnant with twins. There is so much squirming in the womb that she asks God what is going on. He tells her that her sons will create two nations but that the elder will serve the younger.
I am still trying to figure out God’s role in these stories. Here, like the witches in Macbeth he throws out a prophecy of sorts and then sits back and watches how the characters will try to make it happen. But he already knows what will happen so whose fault is it for the way it turns out?
One day when they are grown, Esau, the first born, comes in from hunting and he is famished. Jacob is cooking a stew. Esau asks for some and Jacob asks for his birthright in return. Esau says “I am about to die. What good is a birthright to me.” Jacob asks him to swear and Esau gives up his birthright.
Well obviously Esau is a moron. How long does it take to slap together a sandwich? Instead, for the quick satisfaction, he gives up his inheritance for a measly bowl of stew. But it is more than just the inheritance. Here we have the beginnings of the New Testament theme of doing what’s right so your future life is ensured. And, it is not just the inheritance that is lost. By giving up his birthright, Esau is shirking his responsibilities. As the leader of the clan it would be up to him to ensure that the family is doing well. It would be his job to commune with god etc. Maybe he didn’t want that kind of responsibility? Nevertheless, it gets a fail for his actions.
And Jacob? What kind of brother would demand so much for this bowl of stew? Had Rebecca already told him about the prophecy and he was seizing on this opportunity? I am not sure how much we can praise Jacob at this time. No role models here.
To be continued.
So now Jacob has Esau’s birthright. Next is the blessing.
When Isaac is old, blind, and near death, he calls Esau, his favourite, to his side and tells him to go hunt for some meat so they can eat while he confers the blessing on him. Rebecca overhears and quickly becomes Lady Macbeth and plots how to thwart this turn of events to her liking.
She has a meat dish handy and tells Jacob to go to Isaac pretending to be Esau. He logically says that I am not as hairy as my brother what if he hugs me, what if he smells me. Rebecca takes some of Esau’s clothes and covers Jacob’s hand and face with goatskin.
When Jacob approaches, Isaac is suspicious. “How did you get here so fast?” he asks. “God granted me success,” Jacob replies. Oh. Oh. Not only is he lying to deceive his father and steal the blessing from his brother, but he is also pulling God into the story. Lying about God can’t be good, except that God had granted him success in the prophecy to Rebecca, but we know that’s not what Jacob meant.
Isaac blesses Jacob, giving him dominion over everything belonging to Isaac, including his brother… Shortly after Esau returns, and confusion reigns.
Apparently a blessing cannot be retracted. You can’t say “Oops, wrong guy, let’s try that again.”
Esau is enraged and I guess rightly so – except he had already given up his birthright, so what does he really expect for his rash error years before. He begs for a blessing but all Isaac can give him is “you will live far from the fatness of the earth and live by the sword. You will serve your brother but one day you shall break free.” It isn’t enough so Esau vows to kill Jacob.
Rebecca, fearing for Jacob, tells him to run to his uncle, her brother. But she also fears for the kind of woman he will marry. So before Jacob leaves, Isaac and Jacob have another conversation. Isaac does not berate him at all for deceiving him. In fact he blesses him again with the warning, not to marry a Canaanite woman.
Losing his chance at revenge, Esau can do the only thing that will hit back at his parents. He goes and marries a Canaanite woman, the daughter of Ishmael.
And how does God view all this. While running to his uncle, Jacob stops for the night and has a dream. In it he sees angels ascending and descending a ladder. Then he hears the voice of God blessing him and his descendants. Not sure why, but despite Jacob’s lies and deception, God still has great plans for him. Or does he?
To be continued.
When Jacob reaches the land of his Uncle Laban, one of the first people he sees is his cousin, Rachel, and he falls in love.
Jacob promises to work for his uncle for seven years; in return he gets to marry Rachel. The seven years speed by and the marriage takes place. The veiled bride enters Jacob’s tent, and in the morning, Jacob is stunned to find Leah, Rachel’s older, less attractive sister. Irony of ironies. The deceiver has been deceived. Laban tells Jacob that the custom is for the elder to be married before the younger, but if he promises to work for another seven years he can have Rachel at the end of the week.
I find it amusing that some people who oppose gay marriage, will point to the Bible and say a marriage is between a man and a woman. And, in this case, her sister, and her maid, and her sister’s maid.
When God saw that Leah was “hated” he opened her womb and she bore four sons. (I guess she wasn’t completely hated if Jacob was sleeping with her.)
Rachel is barren. So like Jacob’s grandmother Sarah, she gives Jacob her maid, not once, but at least twice. Two sons are born.
Leah is now barren. So she gives Jacob her maid. And not just once. Two more sons are born.
One day. Leah’s oldest son finds some mandrakes. According to the notes, “the mandrake was thought to have aphrodisiac properties which stimulated conception”.
Rachel asks for the mandrakes and Leah says, “You have taken away my husband and now you want my son’s mandrakes.” Rachel says “Then he (Jacob) may lie with you tonight.” Which he does and Leah conceives a son. And then another. And finally a daughter, Dinah. Rachel is still barren.
Until God (finally!) “remembered Rachel”. And she gives birth to Joseph.
This should settle things down. Or will it?
I always find it interesting how Atheists will take one of two positions “I don’t believe in God” or “I hate God” so much energy put into something that they do not believe. It is almost that they want to be converted. Me thinks that “thou protests too much, me thinks.”
It depends who I’m talking to. If it’s someone who forces their religion on me, of course I’m gonna do some converting back. Hehe. And oh how fun it is to do that. But other than that, I keep it to myself. Just as others should with their religions. We can all get along you know. 
I assume you are referring to me. You are right. I don’t believe in a god, especially the one depicted in the Bible. And while I wouldn’t say I hate the god that is described in Genesis, I have to admit that he doesn’t come across as all that admirable a character. But you are wrong if you think I am looking to be converted, that I protest too much.
I love these stories. They are brilliantly told and offer much. I earlier compared them to the Greek myths and Shakespeare, which is high praise.
If you think I am not taking them as seriously as believers will, then I obviously plead guilty. But many of my facetious asides are tossed in to see if someone will respond.
I can totally relate to Eve and do not understand why she is so reviled.
I don’t understand why God felt the need to destroy the creation that he originally thought was good, only to see it turn out to be pretty much what it was before.
I really, really don’t get Abraham’s willingness to kill his own son and God’s role in that situation. I think Abraham was absolutely wrong and that the story teaches us to obey authority without question.
I have admitted several times that I don’t get the story, meaning of course its message. That’s where other people can help me out with their interpretations. I will warn you now that I will not be converted. I am long past that. But I am always willing to listen to different points of view and hopefully get a better understanding of why people believe what they do.
When I started this thread I was hoping to be a reader more than a typist. I was hoping that more people would engage each other. I am still hoping that’s possible, even if we backtrack to earlier stories.
Jacob has made both himself and his Uncle Laban wealthy through his hard work. He decides it is time to go back to his home, the land promised by God to Abraham. He strikes a deal with Laban that he will take all the spotted, striped and mottled sheep and goats. Before Jacob can collect his property, Laban takes all the spotted animals and gives them to his sons.
Deceived again (and besides the marriage night, Laban had changed Jacob’s wages 10 times), Jacob resorts to the ancient practice of placing striped rods in front of the animals as they conceived. According to the notes, “ancient cattle breeders believed that females at the time of conception were influenced by visual impressions that affect the colour of the offspring”. (So remember, if your child looks suspiciously like the next door neighbour, don’t assume an affair. You wife may just have been fantasizing.) Later though, God tells Jacob in a dream that he was responsible for all the spotted animals.
With his large flock, Jacob takes his four wives and 12 children and heads for his homeland. As well, Rachel steals the idols that Laban worshiped. Feeling cheated, Laban’s sons and Laban chase after Jacob. However, Laban has been warned by God not to harm Jacob. When he catches up to Jacob he demands the idols back. Jacob knowing nothing of the theft pleads his innocence and allows Laban to kill the person responsible if he can find them.
Rachel had put the idols in her camel’s saddle and was sitting on them. Rachel says to her father not to be angry “that I cannot rise before you, for the way of women is upon me”. Well that is enough to keep Laban away so the idols are never discovered.
Jacob then becomes angry, telling Laban that he worked 14 years for Rachel and Leah and another six years for the flock. Without his idols and fearing the wrath of Jacob’s god, Laban begrudgingly agrees and the two make a truce.
Jacob continues on his way. Is Jacob safe? Is the story over? Not even close.
As we close this chapter of Jacob’s life, I am struck by the cleverness of the author. It had everything - plot, character, theme, and above all, believability - that we want in a short story.
In the early going of this narrative, readers have a hard time liking Jacob. He was an opportunist who took his brother’s birthright. He was a mama’s boy who lied to his father and tricked his brother out of his blessing. He was a coward when he ran away from the threat of his brother. We have little sympathy for him when he is tricked by his uncle into marrying both Leah and Rachel.
However, after 20 years of servitude to his uncle, it is clear that he has been paid back in kind for any sins he has committed. We realize that it is Jacob’s hard work that has made both his and Laban’s families wealthy. When Laban tricks him once more and then still chases after Jacob when Jacob finally decides to move away, we are glad that Jacob stands up to him. As Jacob approaches his homeland, we wonder and worry about his meeting with his brother.
And so does Jacob. After Laban leaves, Jacob has another nightly encounter. This time he wrestles with God and comes away with a wound in his thigh from the struggle. Whether he actually wrestled with God or just struggled with his own conscience really doesn’t matter. Jacob realizes his own flaws as symbolized by his wound and is prepared to meet his brother at whatever cost.
To be on the safe side, Jacob sets aside over 500 goats, sheep, camels, cattle and asses as a gift (bribe) for Esau. When the brothers meet, Esau, who has been successful himself, is more than willing to forgive Jacob. He refuses the offer of the animals and only takes the gift (and now it is a gift) at Jacob’s insistence.
We see the power of forgiveness, and it comes from a man who had more than enough reason to be unforgiving. We also see the power of self-forgiveness. Jacob must have spent the past 20 years tormented by what he had done to his brother. How often do we waste time worrying about the past and mistakes we have made when it is so much easier to make amends and move on.
The rest of Genesis will deal with Jacob’s offspring. Like other characters in Genesis they are hardly the models of perfection.
After two weeks or so posting on this thread, my computer is beset by a series of plagues - frogs, gnats, flies, boils, locusts, even hail and darkness - which took almost two weeks to correct. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Anyway, the tech guys told me that as long as I splashed some lamb’s blood over my doorframe, the Angel of Computer Plagues would pass over my house. Unfortunately I couldn’t find a lamb, so I am left with the old standby - crossed fingers.
Back to the story. Now that Jacob has escaped the servitude of his uncle and been reconciled with his brother, the stories shift to his children who are just as dysfunctional as the older generations.
First up is Dinah, who according to one of my Bibles is ravished by the prince of a neighbouring city. In my other Bible, she is seduced, perhaps implying some consent.
Regardless, the prince is in love with Dinah and wants to marry her. He is willing to pay any price. Jacob’'s sons insist that the men of the village be circumcised because they cannot allow their sister to marry into an uncircumcised community. The prince’s father convinces the rest of his group by saying “these men are peaceable.” (Our premier is lucky that he only has to sell the HST). Two days later “when [the men] were sore” two of Dinah’s brothers came into the city and “slew all the males … and took all their wealth and all their little ones and their wives they took captive.”
What are we to make of this story? It would help if we knew Dinah’s feelings during and after her ravishment/seduction. As is often the case, only the male voices are heard. I would like to think that Dinah was a willing participant. Jacob does not seem outwardly angry. Perhaps he is just glad to get the bride price. Perhaps, he is just getting too old to fight. Or perhaps he is now more forgiving of “unacceptable” behaviour after years of wrestling with his own conscience and battling the treachery of others. The willingness of the prince to marry Dinah is not that of a man who has randomly assaulted someone.
Even if it were rape, the reaction of the brothers is excessive. We might be able to argue that the prince deserves to die. We might be able to stretch it to include the father. But to kill the entire male population and enslave the women and children who themselves will likely be raped, is clearly unjustified. Even Jacob is horrified. At the end of Genesis, when Jacob blesses all his children, he gives Simeon and Levi more of a curse. “O my soul, come not into their council … Cursed … be their wrath for it is cruel!”
And if Dinah were willing to be with the prince during the seduction and especially afterward then the story is much sadder. We can only wonder what became of Dinah after her lover has been killed.
This is what’s known in the biz as “hacking the door frame.”
I must say I am truly enjoying this thread, good job DWhite and keep it up.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Following the Dinah incident, Jacob meets with God once more and this time he is given the name Israel. Then Rachel dies giving birth to Benjamin. With the birth of Benjamin, Jacob now has 12 sons and from his new name, we get the 12 tribes of Israel.
Next, in a single verse with no explanation or storyline, we learn that the eldest son Reuben slept with Bilhah, the maid that Rachel gave to Jacob when she was barren. In other words he slept with his stepmother, his father’s third wife. We learn nothing more of this except at the end of Genesis when Israel blesses his children. Like the blessing given to Simeon and Levi, it is more of a curse. “… you are my firstborn … you shall not have pre-eminence because you went up to your father’s bed”. We don’t know what happened to Bilhah but Reuben does get off easy. When Moses lays out the laws, sleeping with your father’s wife is punishable by death for both participants. (I have been skimming ahead and some of the laws are quite interesting.) I can’t justify Reuben’s behaviour, but in polygamist societies, some men are going to be without partners. On the other hand, his two younger brothers just captured several women, so his timing is a bit odd.
At this point we move into the story of Joseph. Joseph was the favourite of Israel. When Joseph told his father that his other sons had done wrong, Israel gave him a beautiful robe. This angered the brothers more than a little and when Joseph told them of a dream in which they bowed down to him, they plotted to kill him. Worried about shedding the blood of a relative, they throw Joseph in a pit instead.
They then decide not to kill him but to sell him to a passing caravan. Before they could do that, another group found Joseph and they sold him to yet another group who sell him to Egyptians. Even though the result is the same as their plan, I suppose the brothers did not technically sell Joseph into slavery. The brothers tell their father that Joseph has been killed and show him Joseph’s coat covered in goat’s blood. Israel is grief stricken.
In Egypt, Joseph becomes a successful servant to a captain of the Pharaoh. Unfortunately, his good looks are noticed by the captain’s wife. Several times she tries to seduce him, but Joseph refuses. Finally she grabs his cloak and when he runs away, she claims that he tried to attack her. Joseph is jailed, and when two of Pharaoh’s servants are also jailed, he correctly interprets their dreams. The butler would be released, but the baker would be hanged.
Later, Pharaoh has some disturbing dreams and when nobody can interpret them, the butler remembers Joseph. Joseph interprets the dreams as several years of plenty followed by several years of famine. He suggests that the years of plenty be used to stockpile for the years of famine. Pharaoh is so impressed by Joseph that Joseph becomes the manager of the crops.
God has not been an active participant in the past several episodes. We know he has had dealings with Jacob/Israel but for the most part he has been in the background. With the Joseph story, the author makes clear that the Lord was with Joseph. He succeeded because “the blessing of the Lord was upon all that he had”. Joseph refuses the captain’s wife because it is “a sin against God”. He survived prison because “whatever [Joseph] did, the Lord made it prosper.” How true any of that may be the power of faith is undeniable.
Last night, Larry King interviewed several people who, like Joseph, had been wrongfully jailed. He asked them what got them through. In some form or another, faith was involved. Whether it was God, a family member, the law, or themselves doesn’t really matter.
Right in the middle of Joseph’s story, we have a brief but very interesting episode in the life of Judah, Jacob’s fourth son.
Judah had three sons, Er, Onan, and Shelah. Er married Tamar, but for unknown reasons he “was wicked in the sight of the Lord so the Lord slew him.” Now here’s where it gets interesting. If a brother died childless, another brother would marry his widow, and the first son born of that relationship would take the name and inheritance of the dead man.
Onan, knowing “the offspring would not be his … spilled the semen on the ground.” Today, onanism means both coitus interruptus or masturbation so it isn’t completely clear what happened. Nonetheless, “what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, so he slew him also.”
Judah, thinking Tamar is jinxed tells her to go back to her father and wait until the third son grows older. Tamar does so but when Shelah is old enough and Judah who is now a widow himself does not call for her, she suspects his sincerity and decides to take matters into her own hands.
When Judah heads for his pastures, Tamar disguises herself and waits along the roadside. Judah “thought she was a harlot” and propositioned her. He offers her a goat. Tamar asks for some personal items (signet, cord, staff) until the goat arrives and the deal is done. By the time Judah reaches the pastures and sends a goat back with a servant, Tamar is long gone.
Three months later, when Judah learns that Tamar is pregnant, he says “let her be burned.” Tamar approaches Judah showing him the signet, cord and staff and tells him that the father of her child is the owner of these item. Immediately Judah forgives Tamar, calling her more righteous and admonishes himself for not giving her Shelah. The story ends with Tamar giving birth to twins.
We have another intriguing story with clever twists and deceptions. We learn a little more about this early civilization. We can admire Tamar’s ingenuity and respect Judah’s willingness to take responsibility for his actions and admit his own faults even though they were dealing with a convention that we would consider stupid.
Of added interest, if we follow the genealogy of the firstborn twin, Perez, we end up with King David. And if we follow the genealogy of David we end with Joseph, the father of Jesus. Jesus was the outcome of this roadside attraction. I wonder how much he knew of his background when he became one of the few willing to forgive prostitutes.
Yes indeed I do like the explanations.& I agree please continue !!
We return to Joseph who has helped organize the stockpiling of grain during the seven years of plenty. When the crops fail, they fail everywhere. Jacob hears that Egypt has food so he sends his 10 sons (keeping the young Benjamin behind) to buy grain.
They don’t recognize Joseph when they meet with him, but Joseph recognizes them. They bow before him (remember the dream that angered them) and ask for grain. Learning that his father and brother are still alive, Joseph decides to test his brothers. He accuses them of being spies and jails them. He then tells them that one of them will stay jailed while the others go back to fetch the younger brother. Only this way can they prove that they are not spies.
The brothers then realize that their treatment of Joseph (who they still don’t recognize) has come back to haunt them. Simeon is left behind while the others worriedly head home. They are shocked and afraid when they find the money they had paid Joseph inside the sacks of grain.
When they tell Jacob, Jacob refuses to send Benjamin. He has lost Joseph. He has lost Simeon. He fears losing Benjamin. But the famine continues and Jacob tells his sons to go back to Egypt and buy more grain. When they explain again that they can’t go back without Benjamin, he relents. However, he insists that they return the money that was found in the sacks as well as sending Joseph gifts.
When they reach Egypt, they tell the steward of the money, but the steward lies and tells them that their god must have put the money there.
When Joseph sees his younger brother he is overwhelmed, but he is still unprepared to reveal himself. When his brothers are ready to leave, he again tells the steward to put the money back in the sacks but also to put his silver cup inside Benjamin’s sack. (I am not sure but I think the cup is one that Joseph used for divining dreams.)
Just after the brothers leave, Joseph sends his steward after them. When they are accused of theft, they deny any wrongdoing, asking why they would steal a cup after returning the money found in their sacks from the first trip. The steward says that if the cup is found, the person responsible will become a slave. They are horrified when the cup is found in Benjamin’s sack.
When they return to the city, the brothers again bow before Joseph. Judah then pleads with Joseph telling him how much his father grieved for the son who was lost and how he will surely die If he loses Benjamin. He asks Joseph to take him instead and allow Benjamin to go home.
Realizing his brother’s sincerity, he finally reveals himself. The brothers are afraid but Joseph is remarkably forgiving. He tells them that what they did was god’s will, that had they not sent him to Egypt he would not have been here to help them through the famine. Without their mistreatment of him, the good he was able to do could not have happened.
Without bringing God into it, I have heard Michael J. Fox express a similar idea. Without Parkinson’s his life would have been vastly different. He wouldn’t have met the same people and have the close relationships he has. He would not have been able to do some of the good that he has done as a spokesperson. He is not happy that he has Parkinson’s but he realizes that good has resulted from it. The same could be said for people like Terry Fox and Rick Hansen, people who have overcome adversity to make a huge difference and become models for us all.
Joseph’s forgiveness of his brothers is equally remarkable. But it is easy to forgive when your life has turned out well. Would he have been equally forgiving if he had been nothing more than a slave?
Which brings me back to God. It seems to me that he gets a bit of a free ride here. When we overcome adversity, we praise God for giving us the courage and determination to be successful. However, when we are unsuccessful, human frailty is to blame. I am not sure if that is fair.
The end of Genesis. After the brothers are reconciled, Jacob is sent for and he is reunited with Joseph. Because the famine is severe, land is set aside for Jacob and his families to live in Egypt and they resettle there. Jacob blesses all his sons. Judah and Joseph seem to get the best of it. Jacob also blesses Joseph’s son. When Joseph points out that he is blessing the wrong one, the youngest, Jacob (I suppose remembering his own situation with Esau) says that both will do well, but the younger will rule the elder. He also includes a promise that God will help them return to their home in Canaan. Before Jacob dies, he asks his sons to bury him in the same tomb as Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, and Leah. They do so, but return to Egypt. Joseph then dies and is buried in Egypt. Four hundred years will pass before Moses shows up to lead them on the Exodus back to the Promised Land.
I have no doubt that Genesis is great literature. As stories, it has everything. There is enough sex and violence to get at least a PG warning if filmed. There is temptation and murder and natural disaster. There is jealousy and sibling rivalry, a lot of sibling rivalry. There is trickery and deception and vengeance. There are messages about sin and redemption and responsibility and forgiveness. And best of all the characters are believable and identifiable. We might not like all of them nor what they did, but we can certainly understand their motives and appreciate their dilemmas. All of them are very human.
As a holy book, however, I am not convinced. We can certainly learn much from these stories, but we can also learn much from reading Shakespeare or Dickens or Steinbeck. Of course the big difference between other books and the Bible is the main character – God. We get judged by him but can he be judged by us?
This story happened almost 50 years ago so I can’t vouch for the details but the gist of the story is what matters.
When I was about 12, I remember my mother telling our next door neighbour some horrible news. The grandchild of another neighbour had died after getting into the medicine cabinet.
My next door neighbour never one to mince words, asked the awkward questions. Had the mother warned the child? (He was a preschooler so I am not sure how much good it would have done.) Why weren’t these items hidden better? And where was the mom? Why was the child unsupervised? I never heard the answers or even if there were supposed to be answers. I am sure that poor mother never forgave herself no matter what the circumstances.
That story always comes to mind when I think of Eve. Sure God warned Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit. But how well did they understand the consequences if they didn’t know good and evil to begin with. And why wasn’t the tree locked up. After they eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God is quick to put flaming swords around the tree of life to prevent Adam and Eve from eating from it and gaining eternal life. And where was God when Eve was with the snake? Unlike humans, he can be everywhere at once and he had only two people to watch. If I saw my child putting his hand toward a hot stove, I am going to stop him, not wait ‘til he’s burned his hand and tell him “See that’s what you get for not listening.”
I have no problem with our human condition and the fact that we have to make choices and deal with consequences. That’s life and I accept that no matter how we got that way. But the Bible tells us that humans are to blame for our condition. We fell. It’s our entire fault. If my neighbour’s daughter through her imperfections erred with tragic results then perhaps we might consider an imperfect god making a similar mistake. But unlike the Greek gods who are almost comedic in their imperfections, flawed superheroes if you will, the Biblical god is supposed to be perfect. I don’t see him that way. Perhaps, I should read more.
The Biblical God can’t be perfect. He’s never healed an amputee. What’s with that?
He can cure leprosy, heal the halt and lame, even raise people from the dead. But he’s never healed an amputee. Must be too hard for him, or maybe it’s against his religion.