And around and around we go. I am sure Les Layne was a supporter of the tax and made this information available earlier.
The problem with this whole fiasco is nobody - NOBODY - knows who to trust when information is passed along.
The poor will not get as much of a rebate cheque. If I ever felt guilty about voting the way I did, this was an issue I was concerned about.
However, there are always ways of helping the poor. Cheques can be mailed out with any name on it, not just HST.
I go back to my original reason for supporting the yes side. The HST was a tax shift from corporations to consumers introduced in an underhanded manner by a government that has spent 10 years helping corporate friends. The entire debate was a dance of misinformation, probably by both sides, but certainly by the government and its Smart Tax Alliance friends. The “fixes” were amateurish at best and the government looked like a bunch of insincere bunglers.
If the tax was supposed to be revenue neutral then why are we so worried about a huge deficit. Is it because the huge deficit was misreported during the last election. The deficit was supposed to be $500M instead it was over $2B. (That was probably why they were so quick to take the $1.6B) We have to give back this $1.6B but when was it received and what was it used for? If they were using it to hide a one year deficit then what were they going to use in the future.
All I have are questions and nobody has my trust to answer them. Great system we have here.
Back to the poor. If we are so concerned about the poor, then we should be demanding that governments introduce tax policies that address those issues. Campaign on it openly and honestly. Win the election and implement the reforms. That is how our system is supposed to work.
If the Liberals honestly believe that the HST is “best thing they could do for the BC economy” (a paraphrase of Campbell or Hansen) and the best thing for the poor, then call an election right now and campaign on it. I just don’t believe they actually believe in the tax that much.
here is a thought to those that voted yes, how much do you think the hidden tax on goods purchased to produce an item would be by the time you pay your 7% pst at the register? don’t forget for wallmart to purchase anything to sell to you they must pay the PST, they include that in their price mark up as well, so you pay 7% pst on their 7% pst, and if the goods were produced in BC those manufacturers added their 7% pst all the way up the supply chain. but hey lets pretend your paying less sales taxes for the ZALM knows best
Question, for you who seems to have voted no. If there was all of these hidden sales taxes with the GST/PST system, then why did the price of groceries go up, when we switched to HST? Or are you just not the person who does the grocery shopping in the house?
There’s no PST-GST-HST on groceries. The prices went up through simple gouging and other reasons. Gas prices for delivery, hikes in everything corn-based , inflation, etc.
I was bloody shocked at the prices in Terrace. Way higher than in the Fort or PG. Fruit was outrageous, as much as $1 more than here. Their Superstore-in-a-warehouse sucked big time.
Shocked when we went to Abbottsford too and found prices were within pennies of what we pay, meat was equal or more. Of course there they probably pay 10X the rent & taxes and triple the staffing costs.
Question, for you who seems to have voted no. If there was all of these hidden sales taxes with the GST/PST system, then why did the price of groceries go up, when we switched to HST? Or are you just not the person who does the grocery shopping in the house?[/quote]
Oh oh, best to actually have proof of this perceived price gouging before offering up your contribution, looks like its a non starter I’m afraid.
No, the liberals will not call an election to do a completely pointless replay of the referendum, as a demonstration of their belief in a tax that is the status quo in much of the rest of the country (and not unlike GSTs and VATs in other countries).
They are not going to reject the outcome of a democratic process that they introduced in BC (how many referenda did NDP governments hold?). They will wait until the electorate is ready to move on.
There is a point, not far off, where the NDP and their new leader, what’s his name, will simply not be able to spin yesterday’s debate any further. If they want to keep the support of some of us who have voted NDP in the past, they will have to move beyond being a one issue party and come up with some fresh ideas, something that has been sadly lacking in their program for a long time.
[quote=“bubbasteve735”]
Question, for you who seems to have voted no. If there was all of these hidden sales taxes with the GST/PST system, then why did the price of groceries go up, when we switched to HST? [/quote]
You might be confusing groceries with junk food, which lost it’s provincial tax exemption when HST was introduced.
I’d rather the system requires the prices displayed at the stores to include all taxes, so we can tell exactly HST or GST/PST price is higher. PST is not refunded to the stores, it is the cost that added to us. Under HST system, the store can lower the price and still make the same amount of profit as in PST/GST. If the stores sell products at same price, they make more profit under HST. This is why people said HST shift taxes from business to individuals
However, under this economy right now, many people are concered about prices. If they don’t have much buying power, stores have to lower the prices to attract customers. Stores can do that under HST without have to cut off staff or other expenses. But with GST/PST, if stores lower the prices, they have to cut off staff or if they lose money they may rather close the store.
Back to include all taxes in prices… since BC is so democratic, can we have a referendum on it? I was charged HST when buying children’s shoes in Sears and Zellers last year. Did anyone look at the bills and see if the taxes were correct? We’d better be careful during the transition in 2013.
lol nope. Barely touch those bags of Doritos or boxes of Pizza Pockets. [/quote]
Ah yes, those who regard Doritos, Pizza Pockets etc as essentials are probably the biggest winners from the referendum. Hopefully the government will apply PST to some formerly exempt items to help cover rising health care costs and reduce the deficit.
groceries did not have GST, PST or HST on them, only a few non grocery items had it, and you think walmart, canadian tire etc didn’t reduce their prices once their suppliers stopped adding pst to the pst they paid? I’m sure wallmart would make sure they got a price cut and passed it on
[quote=“BTravenn”]
Ah yes, those who regard Doritos, Pizza Pockets etc as essentials are probably the biggest winners from the referendum. Hopefully the government will apply PST to some formerly exempt items to help cover rising health care costs and reduce the deficit.[/quote]
I will agree with you on that one. We should be taxing items that are harmful and use the money to help educate people against their use, pay for the problems that occur from their use, or fund alternatives to their use.
As I understand the carbon tax it seems like a good idea in theory, but the money is not being directed towards a greener environment; it is just another tax grab that goes into general revenue.
[quote=“DWhite”]
As I understand the carbon tax it seems like a good idea in theory, but the money is not being directed towards a greener environment; it is just another tax grab that goes into general revenue.[/quote]
Here is what the Ministry of Finance says in answer to that unsupported contention:
"Myth: The carbon tax is just a tax grab.
Fact: Every dollar raised by the carbon tax is returned to individuals and businesses through tax reductions. None of the carbon tax revenue is used to fund government spending.
In the first three years of the carbon tax, tax cuts returned an estimated $316 million more to taxpayers than the amount of carbon tax paid. Over the next three years, the tax cuts are expected to return $761 million more to taxpayers than the amount of carbon tax paid."
[quote=“DWhite”]
As I understand the carbon tax it seems like a good idea in theory, but the money is not being directed towards a greener environment; it is just another tax grab that goes into general revenue.[/quote]
Here is what the Ministry of Finance says in answer to that unsupported contention:
"Myth: The carbon tax is just a tax grab.
Fact: Every dollar raised by the carbon tax is returned to individuals and businesses through tax reductions. None of the carbon tax revenue is used to fund government spending.
In the first three years of the carbon tax, tax cuts returned an estimated $316 million more to taxpayers than the amount of carbon tax paid. Over the next three years, the tax cuts are expected to return $761 million more to taxpayers than the amount of carbon tax paid."[/quote]
Well if the Ministry of Finance is telling the truth (…) then I stand corrected.
I see the tactic you use – when you disagree with someone and can’t answer their points, you call them a name or label them? Sounds familiar.
Seriously, how much would a 2% reduction of the HST cost? Where was that money going to come from? I thought they were selling the HST as “revenue neutral.” Or was that a lie?
You can’t answer that, so you label it as spin? What does that make you, then?
And just what percentage of voters endorsed the Liberals in the last election? Serious question, since you bring up the percentage. Do you want to do the math, or should I?
Is your point that it’s not democratic? What percentage of voters marked “No” ? What percentage of voters didn’t give a shit?
