There’s oart of the problem right there.
In the most open country in the world, with the largest and free-est press that ever existed, a huge number of people believe there’s some conspiracy of secrets. THey’ve even got people who ridicule their cuase (like me even) using cliches like “mainstream media” as if only the firnge is believable…
But then again, I have a daughter who’s a vegan PETA nutcase, and even though relatives own a Fraser Valley dairy farm, she’d never go there and discover that they don’t torture the milk out of the cows… she also doesn’t eat eggs, yet grew up with chickens. Just will not consider going to a farm and buying real eggs instead of factory ones…
you gotta remember that the USSR couldn’t keep Chernobyl a secret, and as devastating as that was we’re still here 30 years later.
[quote=“herbie_popnecker”]Open air test were halted in the early 70s. I grew up when they measured strontium levels in milk.There were Xray machines in shoe stores and they powdered your head with DDT in school lice checks. Plasticine was too expensive so you used gaddam asbestos to make crafts in Gtade Two, they put lead in gas and our parents smoked like fiends and taught us to do so too.
No damn wonder there’s cancer… and there was cancer in great-great grampa’s time but 90% of people didn’t live long enough to get it.
Jeez, compared to the 50s and 60s this whole Japanese reactor thing is chicken-change.
Rupert’s more likely to be uninhabitable in 2017 because its under three feet of spilled bitumen than anything else![/quote]
wrong France continued atmospheric testing until 1974, and China continued until 1980.
I am a sucker for Bigfoot, UFOs, and flying dragons. I love all of that stuff and I want to believe. But, after I get over my euphoria at the latest fantastic discovery I calm down and look for the proof.
I agree. If the evidence of lethal radioactivity mounts and is published and verified in a legitimate scientific publication then I will start to become concerned.
Santa Claus is Canadian. The Nordic countries and Russia can suck it.
ok can some one explain this to me its been done numerous times by others, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQLxT49ZP0
[quote]Following public outcry, a state investigation by health officials found similar levels while collecting ground samples several days later. According to County Environmental Health Director Dean Peterson, the public should not be concerned.
“It’s not something that we feel is an immediate public health concern,” Peterson told the Review. “We’re not even close to the point of saying that any of this is from Fukushima.”
According to “Dave,” the video’s author, radiation detected two inches off the beach surface several days prior produced levels even higher, nearly 13 times above normal.
Unconvinced of any link to Fukushima, Peterson pointed to items such as “red-painted disposable eating utensils” as a more likely cause of the heightened radiation levels. [/quote]
come on they banned the use of depleted uranium oxide some 50 years ago…
David Suzuki’s Fukushima Warning
and what about this, The Department of Health and Human Services has ordered 14 million doses of potassium iodide, the compound that protects the body from radioactive poisoning in the aftermath of severe nuclear accidents, to be delivered before the beginning of February.
I guess its all bunk… no worries
Let us know your prediction, Astro.
You’ve researched this, and are confident, then tell us when it’s going to happen.
If you give us a concrete date, then it’s a testable hypothesis. If you can’t or won’t, then it’s a religious belief or conspiracy theory.
We went over this with the Amero (which is 4 years late) and the Fukushima sky falling last year and it didn’t.
So tell us when it’s going to happen, and we will check back here and see if it happened or not. Simple.
I’m no psychic,so no prediction from me and have no idea what the future holds, and don’t try and turn it around that I have to show proof of anything!!
the burden of proof does not belong to me or you, as we didn’t cause the concern that is happening in Japan or in our oceans.
I’m a concerned citizen of Canada who lives on the ocean who like many of the thousands concerned individual who also eat many things out of the ocean.
You can believe in the narrative that is being fed to us, yes you too can believe that (fiestaware uranium oxide as suggested “red-painted disposable eating utensils” were the likely cause of radiation (some 500% above normal levels) in the above video, that is your god given right. As I stated I just want answers. so again don’t try and tell me to defend myself with dates, conspiracy or religious belief’s lol…
[quote=“Astro”]I’m no psychic,so no prediction from me and have no idea what the future holds, and don’t try and turn it around that I have to show proof of anything!!
the burden of proof does not belong to me or you, as we didn’t cause the concern that is happening in Japan or in our oceans.
I’m a concerned citizen of Canada who lives on the ocean who like many of the thousands concerned individual who also eat many things out of the ocean.[/quote]
Actually the burden of proof absolutely rests with you and your camp. That’s how it works when you make a claim, reasonable or outrageous. If you claim something without any evidence I can dismiss it without any evidence. (A line I think I stole from Hitchens.)
i never made a claim i quoted what have been said… so no it does not…
Having a testable hypothesis is how you separate science and knowledge from religion, pseudo-science, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, supernatural stuff, and other kinds of woo.
For example, successful religions would never make testable hypothesis. Unsuccessful ones do (“The world is going to end on May 5, 2011!”).
Same with conspiracy theories. The good ones would never make a testable hypothesis, because then they’re easy to disprove. The bad ones make a testable hypothesis, and easy to disprove. Remember when you guys were absolutely 100% convinced we’d have the Amero by 2010?
Well, what you’re trying to sell here, Astro, is the same as those religious guys who go door to door. You know THETHRUTH!!!* and want others to open their eyes, and stop being sheeple or whatever. But when asked for specific truth, you run away. Just like the guys who come to the door with their version of the truth. If you ask them for a specific claim, they won’t or can’t give you one.
Well, this thread started with a testable hypothesis “uninhabitable by 2017!” Well, that’s great. If you believe that, then I guess you’ll be moving out of Prince Rupert soon. If you do think that deadly radiation is coming to BC, then you’ll be moving, right?
If you’ve done all the research, and you’ve come to the conclusion that your research is iron-clad and perfect, then all you have to give us is a testable hypothesis. If it’s correct, then you’re correct.
But you won’t fall for that trap any more than the religious guys do. Because what you believe in is your religion. Last thing you’d want is someone to prove it incorrect!
Here’s my hypothesis: Radiation levels in BC for 2014 will be negligible. Same for 2015 and 2016 and 2017. You can test each of those claims. I base this on the number of nuclear tests that were orders of magnitude larger (some 100,000 times larger!) than fukushima could be if it melted down, and yet, not much changed in BC.
I also base it on the fact that we had this exact same conversation, and someone made the claim that people would be dying from Fukushima radiation by summer 2013.
Sorry Astro but give it up,well at least on this forum.David Suzuki is wrong, the addmins and their little clique know way more than Suzuki,if they say no worries thats good enuf for me.
Every thread on here they come in and belittle anyone that posts their thoughts on anything,I just didnt know they know more than David Suzuki on the environment.They gonna stick to the 1st post in this this thread and make it as if you said bc gonna die,how it turned into you having to prove God is beyond me,soon it will be just the 6 of them with tens of thousands of posts each making each other look stupid gg HTMF
But hey every click in this forum makes a few pennies for them,just to bad they drove away most of the members that used to click here
ps. gl on your 20k post Mig, belittling members of your forum,then wonder why this site died
HTMF “nobody goes on there” since 1999.
And this site won’t be dead by 2017, as it’s not hosted in the Fukushima fallout region.
You and Astro and more than welcome to post your opinions. And everyone else (including me) is allowed to contradict them. Sorry if your feelings are hurt, that’s not the intent when I disagree with people.
I’m good friends with Astro, and I know his feelings aren’t hurt just because we can disagree on things.
Long time listener, first time caller. Did anybody read the actual study that all these web experts refer to? The one about the sea floor being littered with dead animals? It doesn’t mention the Japanese radiation, other than to say that the radiation has nothing to do with it. Especially considering that this was happening 5 years before the Tsunami in Japan.
All the articles linking to the study ignore this, and put in their own spin. Including the posters here.
deepseanews.com/2014/01/is-the-s … iation-no/
Please do not belittle me for posting this!
[quote=“Leonard”]Long time listener, first time caller. Did anybody read the actual study that all these web experts refer to? The one about the sea floor being littered with dead animals? It doesn’t mention the Japanese radiation, other than to say that the radiation has nothing to do with it. Especially considering that this was happening 5 years before the Tsunami in Japan.
All the articles linking to the study ignore this, and put in their own spin. Including the posters here.
deepseanews.com/2014/01/is-the-s … iation-no/
Please do not belittle me for posting this![/quote]
Welcome to HTMF, Leonard. Yes. We do have spirited debates here.
So we have scientists from both camps saying two opposite things
A: no doom and gloom all is good and fine with three of the 4 nuclear reactors melting and burning through the concrete basement of the reactor housing. The water being used to cool the debris has been leaking into the soil and contaminating the ground water on the premises of the nuclear facility. With the water eventually seeping into the Pacific, but its all good no news hear people.
B: Worse case scenario, the reactor rods loose all water supply and go into full melt down and and we are living in a mad max world…lol…
Then we have the armchair scientists on this forum who say its A or B and no middle ground its all about show me a hypothesis, tell me dates, blaa blaa blaa, I want answers and no one can tell me anything so I’m left with my own assumptions and that’s it.
Radiation from Japan nuclear plant arrives on Alaska coast
Scientists concerned about lack of monitoring plan more here from the cbc, but don’t worry Astro it will not effect you or you children or food supply right guys…
cbc.ca/news/canada/north/rad … -1.2335668
We don’t really know what’s happening, this is true. What we hear and read, who knows what’s fact or fiction. Someone has mentioned to me that the scallop fisherman here have been testing for radiation and have said its fine, so they are continuing to harvest. All we can really do is wait and see.
[quote=“Astro”]So we have scientists from both camps saying two opposite things
A: no doom and gloom all is good and fine with three of the 4 nuclear reactors melting and burning through the concrete basement of the reactor housing. The water being used to cool the debris has been leaking into the soil and contaminating the ground water on the premises of the nuclear facility. With the water eventually seeping into the Pacific, but its all good no news hear people.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the nuclear reactors don’t pose a problem in their immediate area–I’m not gonna go hangout at the base of one of them–but that’s not the claim being made here.
[quote]
Then we have the armchair scientists on this forum who say its A or B and no middle ground its all about show me a hypothesis, tell me dates, blaa blaa blaa, I want answers and no one can tell me anything so I’m left with my own assumptions and that’s it.[/quote]
It’s not just armchair scientists, it’s all science. Without a falsifiable hypothesis, you have nothing. Without evidence supporting that hypothesis, you have just as much nothing. You don’t have to be a professional scientist to understand that falsifiability and evidence are the foundations of science today. Anyone who has gone through our school system should have at least a working knowledge of the scientific method, but some ignore it.
Mig bringing religion into the conversation isn’t really out of place at all. You should believe the Bible because the priests and the Bible say you should. That kind of circular reasoning pops up time and time again with conspiracy theories like this. A great example are three authors of 9/11 conspiracy literature–I don’t have their names handy so I’ll just have to assign them letters. Author A writes his book, and in his book cites Author B’s book as supporting evidence. Author B cites Author C in his own book. Meanwhile, Author C originally cited Author A. I have a feeling that the same kind of pattern exists in our case here.
If there’s really so much proof, what possible reason would the vast majority of the scientific community have for staying silent? Don’t the various science faculties at UBC, SFU, UVic, VIU, etc. have a pretty big interest in keeping their coastal communities free of radiation that will cause the area to be uninhabitable by 2017? Wouldn’t they be the first to check into this and sound the alarm? These aren’t armchair scientists, these are academics, and they don’t seem all that concerned.
[quote]
Radiation from Japan nuclear plant arrives on Alaska coast
Scientists concerned about lack of monitoring plan more here from the cbc, but don’t worry Astro it will not effect you or you children or food supply right guys…
cbc.ca/news/canada/north/rad … -1.2335668[/quote]
I’ll be eating my words in 2017 when our community is a Chernobyl-esque mutant zombie haven, perhaps. But I doubt it.
Edit: I wanted to double-check my spelling for Fukushima (which I ended up not using anyways), so I googled it. Here is a David Suzuki blog post from right at the top of the search results: davidsuzuki.org/blogs/scienc … h-is-safe/
Among other things, he indicates he’ll continue eating West Coast fish. He doesn’t have concerns, but these are due to unknown variables that exist in our oceans and air that no computer model today can accommodate. He absolutely does not reach the level of paranoia that is being suggested by people here in this thread, nor does he suggest it.
So I’m not really sure what the poster above was referring to when name dropping Suzuki…
Your wifi router puts out more radiation. Your phone too.
Skeptoid takes on this topic in the latest episode:
skeptoid.com/episodes/4397 “Fukushima vs Chernobyl vs Three Mile Island”
Worth a quick read, or a listen.
“In other words, to die from Fukushima’s radiation, you will need to drink one thousand cubic kilometers of seawater, and somehow manage to absorb every atom of 137Cs from it. But if you’re looking only to eventually get cancer, then you might be able to do so on only a few hundred cubic kilometers of the Pacific.”
“But if you tried to do that, you would already die one million times over from just the primordial radioactive elements that exist naturally in our oceans; more than 15 zettabecquerels (a million petabecquerels) of naturally occurring potassium-40, rubidium-87, uranium-238, and so on.”
"This is the central thesis of science reporters who have been desperately trying to respond to scientifically illiterate fearmongerers printing headlines like “Your Days of Eating Pacific Ocean Fish Are Over” and “28 Signs That The West Coast Is Being Absolutely Fried With Nuclear Radiation From Fukushima”. Our planet’s entropy has, long ago, already rid itself of any credible threat from the Fukushima radiation, outside of the immediate evacuation zone. "