Things PNW ad left out

first off Asian countries shifting from Coal fired energy would need LNG for energy especially China and India, second as I stated before where ever you put pilings you have lots of fish around them it is a proven fact so instead of harming the fish it will help fish by giving them shelter, go check out any port or drilling rigs in the gulf, and speaking of the drilling rigs in the gulf which are teaming with fish around their legs or pilings whatever you want to call them, apartently the noise from the drilling don’t scare off those fish. and as for flora bank if it could survive the huge storms and waves during low tide, I highly doubt the LNG ships wake would harm it.

China is going to solar. Natural gas is better than coal but when you add in the extra methane lost with fracking (and about half or more of the gas would have to be fracked) and you add in the extra gas burned to compress and ship it, LNG is about the same as coal.
Pile perch and salmon smolts react differently to structures. I don’t think the science is in yet but I saw a study finding salmon avoided being under bridges.
Why isn’t Flora Bank washed away or covered with fine silt which doesn’t support eelgrass? You tell me. No one knows. It is in a fine balance.

Okay, I went to the site with this image and it is about where to put your lure when trolling for salmon. Turbulence, wash, thrust…what’s going to happen when tugs dock the vessels beside the fine sediment of Agnew Bank, I don’t know. PNW says they will monitor after the project is built. But what then? $20 billion later if big areas of eelgrass are mudding up and dying.

hate to say this but the biggest contributor to methane gas escaping into the environment is cow farts not fracking or lng flaring

Cows can’t stop emitting methane. We can control how much methane industry produces.

A post was split to a new topic: Faulty science muddies waters of LNG plan for Lelu Island

Pacific Northwest LNG wants to sincerely apologize for a graphic error that happened recently in a figure illustrating eelgrass on Flora Bank, which was printed in materials including a liocal newspaper ad and comunity mailer.
http://theecoreport.com/pacific-northwest-lng-apologized/

Cow flatulence can be reduced by letting them go back to their natural diet of grass and flowers and such. Instead of feeding them corn and other supplements that cause the excess farting and methane production. We would just have to pay a little more for our meat.

The largest salmon run in canada is to the Adams river, which is a tributary of the fraser river. Almost all of the entire mouth of the fraser river is developed with some sort of industry. All you have to do is look at it from the air when flying into vancouver. The largest run in 100 years was 2010 and the return was in excess of 34 million fish to the Adams river, all while the banks of the fraser have been developed with industry, including tug boats in the river itself. Not to mention sewage plants and an airport in the middle of the delta, which contain precious eel grass.

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Well said. I have thought the exact same thing.

i’m getting tired of these The world is ending stop petronas lelu island, media PR by the suziki foundation and their buddies, what proof are they offering that flora bank will be harmed? at low tide it is a mud bank and even during our harshest weather it hasn’t harmed it, what would pilings about a km away from it do to it? nothing at all, whereever there are pilings there are lots of fish around them even when there are boats using the docks. now they are saying the noise from boats will harm flora bank. please are these the same environmental groups that went to the Paris Cop21 meetings with all the politicians? how did they get there row boat? or did they all fly there, yep that really helped the environment, considering planes are the biggest polluters around. it is sort of do as i say and not as i do. Don’t show hypothetical computer models, prove what you are claiming

Well Physt and GraciesMom I wondered the same thing. How much eelgrass does the Skeena have compared to the Fraser? Do you think they have more sockeye than us because they have more eelgrass than us in the magic 15% freshwater smolt zone?

To Jabber63: Let’s say you want to expand your shop into the babies room. And your wife is like: “but honey what about the dust and noise and fumes from chemicals” and you’re like: " Well you like the things I make; don’t be such a hypocrite. Where is your proof?" And she’s like: " Why don’t you expand it somewhere else?’
(and by the way Jabber, what constitutes proof? I cited a study above showing salmon smolts avoid noise.)

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So I say to my wife, if we expand the shop into the baby’s room my home business can grow and we can start making money. Money that is needed for our children so they can have a good education. Maybe even stay in our town. There will be no dust and chemicals because I will construct it with best up to date building codes. Other businesses do this with no ill fait to their family.

ok you cited a study, where do those salmon go during low tide? after all it is a mud flap during load tide do they breath air then or do they move on to somewhere else? my bet is they move to somewhere else, so when a ship ties up they move somewhere else then they will come back when the ship stops making noise, and by the way check out the rigs in the gulf of mexico, or anywhere in the world where there are pilings in the ocean or harbours, you will find there are lots of fish around them, what do you think happens to them when the ship comes in? they move away then they move back.

as for your analogy if you want your family to grow yes you have to fix up a room and you do it to the best available standards as possible, you put plastic around the door and windows to keep the dust inside the room, when you finish for the day you sweep up all the material to dispose of it, the noise might disturb the wife but she knows it won’t be there for long so she puts up with it.

I see where the people who support PNW are coming from. The difference is the level of trust. I studied PNW’s first proposal-

  • PNW wanted the huge dredge and they used a sample from south of Flora Bank (outside the old pulp mill waste plume) to characterize the dioxin and furan levels in the sediment at the dredge site well to the north. It is just lucky locals had pushed for, obtained and knew the results of sediment samples at the Coast Island site so we could expose them. They were forced to retract their plan

  • PNW said in an early report “Flora Bank eelgrass is not considered highly productive habitat relative to other areas in Chatham Sound”. The BC government approved PNW based in part on this report but now PNW has retracted that report.

  • I could go on and on. Petronas/PNW is making errors and the BC government is not catching them. The federal government, as far as I know, only caught the mass of errors in the 3D model because Lax Kw’alaams paid for a study and scientist who raised alarms which resulted in a review by govt scientists and PNW again was forced to retract.

  • Scientists in Scotland are studying sound and salmon before they put wind turbines in salmon migration routes. You are correct the smolts go onto Agnew Bank when the tide is out but the sound from the compressors of the LNG plant on Lelu Island won’t stop to allow them to come back.

  • What else needs retracting- modelling of NOx maximum levels in Port Edward (other PNG plants are away from residents)? Wave action at the berth site (remember Petronas put in a major pipeline which exploded and is still out of production)? Amount of sediment stirred up and onto the eelgrass by the tugs docking the ships each day?

The North Coast needs a boost in our economy and LNG is knocking at out front door offering us a great opportunity. LNG will help pay for Prince Ruperts new roads, new water treatment plant and to everything else that has been neglected for the past few years. It can be done in a somewhat environmentally friendly way. What if they funded a mega hatchery program to help with our already declining salmon stocks? I am sure that if this project goes through a program like this will be in the works.

Flora Bank and Agnew are a small fraction of inter tidal zones located near the mouth of the Skeena with this magical grass that supposedly doesn’t grow back once cut.

Atsea do you really know where Flora Bank is? Have you ever looked at a marine chart of the mouth of the Skeena?

If it were true that Flora Bank eelgrass beds were only a small fraction of Skeena smolt estuary habitat I wouldn’t be worried either. I know the area well but when it comes to the eelgrass and its importance to smolts I rely on experts. I know two who have studied Skeena smolts and both think this project shouldn’t go ahead. I also read past studies. One said Flora Bank contained 60% of the eelgrass in the Skeena- I guess they were referring to the area where the smolts were adjusting. Another study called Flora Bank "critical salmon habitat"
I don’t see how a hatchery is going to make up for this risk.
Really if Trudeau is going to put in an oil tanker ban, I don’t see why the port doesn’t give up on Nexen and others and put Petronas on Ridley.

The Nexen project is a proposed LNG project.
Sorry for the news, but one or more of these projects are going to happen. I also highly doubt ur scientist friends studied the whole Skeena mouth looking for this magical grass at all depths. Who would pay for such a study? I can totally see ur scientist friends working on Flora and Agnew but everywhere else?

Nexen is the one behind the Aurora LNG project on Digby but I was referring to the negotiations/planning meetings Nexen, CN, Prince Rupert Port Authority and the government held about an oil-by-rail terminal on Ridley Island.
I just remembered another scientist I know Dr. Charmaine Carr-Harris who has been sampling smolts recently and found the highest abundance near Flora.