Things PNW ad left out


#1

Small (but creepy) Deal- Petronas/PNW left a little eelgrass off the ad. Compare the Nov 2015 PNW CEA submission (top) to the PNW Dec 2015 Northern View ad (bottom)



#2

Did you know Flora and Agnew Bank have a special 15% freshwater makeup important for smolts.

This is from a 1975 environmental assessment which rejected Flora Bank as a site it is not from the PNW ad.
Pg. 36 volume 4 NEAT Report
Figure 17 FRESHWATER CONCENTRATION IN CHATHAM SOUND NORMAL CONDITIONS
Shows that in normal conditions Flora Bank and shouldering Agnew Bank are unique and important habitat for the north turning Skeena salmon smolts because they lie within the 15 percent contour of freshwater, whereas nearby Ridley Island and Digby Island only have this beneficial level of freshwater during freshet.
“Of particular interest is the 15 percent freshwater contour. It is evident in the region of Flora Bank and Kitson Island during normal flow conditions and expands up the west coast of Digby Island during the high flows of the freshet. This transition area is probably of particular significance for young salmon: environments with salinity similar to that of the blood of salmon (isomotic) permit faster growths since less energy is spent on regulating internal water and salt levels than in either freshwater or sea water.”


#3

Did you know smolts avoid sound? The smolts will suffer if they leave the 15% Flora Agnew area when LNG carriers and plant noises drive them away.
“Tests on down-river migrating salmon smolts have also been performed. During a stimulation period of 170 min, only six fish passed the operating 10 Hz sound source, whereas 338 fish passed during a silent period of the same duration.”-Per S. Enger et al 1993. Detection and reaction of fish to infrasound. - ICES mar. Sei. Symp., 196: 108-112.


#4

I say we just genetically modify the smolt so they can’t hear. Problem solved.


#5

kind of funny anywhere there are pilings there are lots of fish, now that flora bank will not be harmed you are adding something else by saying fresh water disturbance and noise of ships would harm them. how many fishing boats go by there during fishing season? has that harmed the smolts? and when we have low tide and flora bank is a mud bank where do the smolts and fish go?


#6

Did you know that Inverness Channel is less than 30% of the total flow of the Skeena River, and that this LNG terminal will not kill 100% of the fish that go through the Skeena system through Inverness if it kills any at all? Do you know how many years worth of Gill Netters have dragged their nets across Flora and Agnew Bank harvesting millions of tons of salmon ripping all types of marine grasses while pumping out their oily bilges? Did you know that Prince Rupert was originally designed to be an import and export community in the early 1900’s? The Kitimat River has one of the biggest salmon runs in the world for its size and it has had Alcan, Eurocan, and a Methanal Plant all located at the mouth of it?


#7
  • “Kind of funny you are adding something else” Jabber63 It is a gigantic project with a million worries.

  • “Where do the smolts go?” They go to Agnew; rich with food and currently not pounding with noise.

  • “Fish boats going by” LNG Carriers docking in South Hook UK caused citizen complaints from miles away. And what about the sound carried through rock from the compressors of the plant.

  • “fresh water” I am not adding stuff I am finding stuff out. Biologists told me “not Flora; this is bad” I didn’t know why it was so special. I just found out about that little curve of 15% freshwater over it and how important it is.


#8
  • “not kill 100%” I agree. Some smolts go out south. But generally smolts are north turning and this is a major (past independent science has said critical) feeding/smolting area.

  • “Dragged their nets” I don’t know first hand but I had the pleasure of the late Heiber Clifton, local leader and fisherman, once explaining to me the importance of that eelgrass and telling me they had learned they have to stay off it. How important it is for what he called shrimp (feed for the smolts). The science have several multi syllabic words for all the species of shrimp-like marine life around eelgrass.

  • “Rupert was originally designed” Rupert has supported thousands of people by fishing for thousands of years. And all the people from Norway and Scotland etc who came here to join the fishing industry saw its true value.


#9

Dont forget all the ships that load at the two Ridley Island terminals every day as well, 365 days a year for as many years as those terminals have been open. They also go right by Flora Bank daily, as do the container vessels that go to Fairview, as does BC Ferries…as did the many many vessels that loaded at the Pulp Mill for over 30 years in a row.

Its all bullshit scare tactics and I think more and more people are starting to see through this cloud of utter BS.


#10

“This is not a scare tactic” I am genuinely scared. I have been around compressors and they are incredibly noisy. Sound travels through rock and can carry more powerfully in water than in air.


#11

A compressor…are you serious right now?

I suggest if you are THAT scared to wear ear protection next time.


#13

Are you serious? We are talking fish larvae and smolts.


#14

Did the PNW ad talk about thrust from the tugs? We were across the harbour from a Costco ship being docked. The thrust from the tug reached us all that way and pushed our boat way off course. The PNW EIS admits there will be literally cms of sediment resuspended each berthing. And that sediment expert Lax Kw’alaams hired found out that eelgrass only grew where there was less than 20% fine mud. Right now the fine mud carried by the Skeena runs over Flora Bank without settling. It settles on Agnew. What will a huge thrust of the stuff everyday against the current do.


#15

Sorry Bthedog I should have said compressors for reefers maybe you were thinking air compressors. I was thinking compressors for compressing huge volumes of natural gas sitting on rock would be…loud!


#16

The proposed tugs will have a special propulsion called Voith Schneider Propellers that produce minimal wash. Way less that a conventional tug. Google that one. When the river freshes in the spring have you ever seen how far the Skeenas sediment travels. Almost out to Lucy Island. Some of this sediment is yes from Flora Bank. Flora constantly shifts due to natural causes such as ocean currents, wind, etc. way more than any ship or tug could or would ever produce.

Thank god those explores doubted the facts back in the day and ventured off the edge of the earth to find North America rather than believing all the scare tactic that the Earth was flat.


#17

I don’t think wash is the issue. Wash is wasted turbulence. I am talking about the stream of water pushed away from the tug. You know: equal and opposite force.
I don’t think anyone fully understands Flora Bank and sediment but my read is that the sediment laden Skeena water moves homogeneously over the Bank and does not drop its load. That is why it has not built up or changed over the hundred or so years we have records. I think a Voith Schneider propelled stream of water would make the flow over Flora the opposite of homogeneous.


#18

Sorry but I don’t really think you know what ur talking about.


#19

Economy shifting --to high quality seafood
We shouldn’t squander the Skeena salmon. The shrimp farmers in the Gulf are regretting- we don’t want to regret.
“For some, the shifting dynamics across the Asia-Pacific region – particularly China’s transition from an investment- and export-led economy to one based on sustainable, domestic consumption – should have those in B.C. and across Canada re-evaluating how to take advantage of the available opportunities”…
"The crash in commodity prices, Mr. Beck [ who heads the Vancouver-based Asia-Pacific Foundation of Canada] says, combined with rising incomes in Asia, should make people think twice about which products and markets to focus on. In short, it may be less about shipping coal to Chinese factories and more about shipping peas, lentils, high-quality seafood and advanced technologies to a new Asian middle class from Jakarta to New Delhi."


#20

first off Asian countries shifting from Coal fired energy would need LNG for energy especially China and India, second as I stated before where ever you put pilings you have lots of fish around them it is a proven fact so instead of harming the fish it will help fish by giving them shelter, go check out any port or drilling rigs in the gulf, and speaking of the drilling rigs in the gulf which are teaming with fish around their legs or pilings whatever you want to call them, apartently the noise from the drilling don’t scare off those fish. and as for flora bank if it could survive the huge storms and waves during low tide, I highly doubt the LNG ships wake would harm it.


#21

China is going to solar. Natural gas is better than coal but when you add in the extra methane lost with fracking (and about half or more of the gas would have to be fracked) and you add in the extra gas burned to compress and ship it, LNG is about the same as coal.
Pile perch and salmon smolts react differently to structures. I don’t think the science is in yet but I saw a study finding salmon avoided being under bridges.
Why isn’t Flora Bank washed away or covered with fine silt which doesn’t support eelgrass? You tell me. No one knows. It is in a fine balance.