Annunciation School once again tops the Fraser Institutes list of PR elementary schools.
Annunciation was the 50th highest ranking school in BC out of 853 schools; they scored a 8.9 out of 10 score.
PR School Rankings:
#50 of 853 = Annunciation
#751 of 853 = Conrad
#784 of 853 = Lax Kxeen
#817 of 853 = Pineridge
Roosevelt was not included in the list because not enough students wrote the test.
Wow. What does this say about our schools? Who wants kids in any schools other than Annunciation, given a choice?
I don’t understand why Roosevelt students didn’t take the exam. Can anyone explain that?
We need to have some means to measure where our kids are at academically. I really resented “falls within the widely held expectations” that appeared on all my children’s report cards throughout elementary school. Vague as fog.
If my children were going to any school other than Annunciation in Prince Rupert I’d be mad as hell because it looks like all the others are lagging behind so badly they’re a joke. And I hear the teachers and schools complain all the time about the FSA and how that takes away instructional time and they don’t get paid to do that. It would be nice to have some sense of a teacher’s ability to teach our children and we don’t have much to go on. If the FSA is any indication
Wow. What does this say about our schools? Who wants kids in any schools other than Annunciation, given a choice?
I don’t understand why Roosevelt students didn’t take the exam. Can anyone explain that?
We need to have some means to measure where our kids are at academically. I really resented “falls within the widely held expectations” that appeared on all my children’s report cards throughout elementary school. Vague as fog.
If my children were going to any school other than Annunciation in Prince Rupert I’d be mad as hell because it looks like all the others are lagging behind so badly they’re a joke. And I hear the teachers and schools complain all the time about the FSA and how that takes away instructional time and they don’t get paid to do that. It would be nice to have some sense of a teacher’s ability to teach our children and we don’t have much to go on. If the FSA is any indication of teaching ability and it must be, then we’re in trouble.
I don’t understand why Roosevelt students didn’t take the exam. Can anyone explain that?
We need to have some means to measure where our kids are at academically. I really resented “falls within the widely held expectations” that appeared on all my children’s report cards throughout elementary school. Vague as fog.
If my children were going to any school other than Annunciation in Prince Rupert I’d be mad as hell because it looks like all the others are lagging behind so badly they’re a joke. And I hear the teachers and schools complain during testing time about the FSA and how that takes away instructional time and they don’t get paid to administer them. It would be nice to have some sense of a teacher’s ability to teach our children and we don’t have much to go on. If the FSA is any indication of teaching ability and it must be, then we’re in trouble.
^
While I agree that the FSA are important and district teachers need to take them MUCH more seriously than they do…I don’t think these results should be used as a way to slam the teaching abilities of school district teachers however.
The FSA is a joke and so is the Fraser Institute. Methinks their bias is showing…and they have no clothes.
Can you explain why you feel this way?
There is nothing wrong with a test that gives a school district an idea of how the students are doing at various stages of their schooling.
The problem with the Fraser Institute rankings is that there is no context. It is like ranking all the hockey teams in BC and being surprised that the Vancouver Canucks score higher than the Rupert Rampage.
But schools with lower scores might be doing several things well that get lost when the emphasis is on the FSA. They base their rankings on year to year totals (this year’s Grade 4s; last year’s grade 4s) but I have yet to see a study on how well say the Grade 7s did compared to when they were in Grade 4. I think that is a more appropriate comparison.
I am not trying to avoid the fact that kids in Prince Rupert don’t do as well as students from other areas. But how well are they doing compared to when they entered Kindergarten - in other words how they are progressing as they get older is a far more valid indicator of a school’s and a student’s success than the score on the FSA.
That should be the focus of our school district rather than wasting time worrying about rankings based on a single test. We should be looking at Prince Rupert students and what we can do to help them succeed without having to defend ourselves because we score low on a test. Unfortunately, the rankings have become so political that any value of using the test results (not the rankings based on them) are lost.
Either the teachers suck, the kids are dumb as rocks, or the parents could care less. Maybe all three, given that the same dismal results are reported every year, and next year, and…The same excruciating blame game and finger pointing each time…
No, that’s a poor analogy. Your example is like comparing PR kids to the very best private school in the richest neighbourhood in BC. But that isn’t the case. They are being compared to all schools in the province, and they are scoring horribly. There is a problem.
[quote=“crazy Horse”]
No, that’s a poor analogy. Your example is like comparing PR kids to the very best private school in the richest neighbourhood in BC. But that isn’t the case. They are being compared to all schools in the province, and they are scoring horribly. There is a problem.[/quote]
My analogy is poor because you are assuming that I was referring specifically to a Vancouver private school and Prince Rupert schools. I wasn’t. My point was that the Fraser Institute ranks schools without context. Schools that score high on the FSA will score high in the rankings. Schools that score low on the test will rank much lower. They do not take into consideration any factors that might explain the high or low scores.
I am not suggesting that there isn’t a problem. Kids who are not reading, writing, or doing math at grade level need to be helped. But the Fraser Institute rankings do not look at any of the root causes of the poor scores. They just rank the schools based on the scores. As I said in my earlier post, a more valuable comparison would be to see how students are progressing through the grades. For example which school would you prefer?
School A Grade 4 scores - 80%. Three years later those same students now in Grade 7 score 75%
School B Grade 4 scores - 50%. Three years later those same students now in Grade 7 score 60%
The Fraser Institute would have us believe that school A is much better when in fact it may not be.
I am not suggesting that Prince Rupert schools are school B. What I am suggesting is that we focus on the improvements that are made by each individual child rather than generalizing about a whole school based on the marks on a single test.
The rankings (as opposed to the test) serve no valuable purpose. They allow some schools to be smug and others to be defensive. The rankings (again not the test) have made the FSA so political that any value that the test may offer is lost.
And just to be clear. I am not suggesting that there is nothing to be concerned about. We (the province, the district, teachers, parents, students,) should be working together to find solutions to problems that are evident and implement programs that will help our students. My fear is that the rankings make us lose sight of what is actually important and needs to be done.
[quote=“DWhite”] It is like ranking all the hockey teams in BC and being surprised that the Vancouver Canucks score higher than the Rupert Rampage.
My analogy is poor because you are assuming that I was referring specifically to a Vancouver private school and Prince Rupert schools. I wasn’t. [/quote]
I didn’t assume you were referring to a Vancouver private school. You did when you compared the Rampage to the Vancouver Canucks.
I get your points, and maybe someone should do a study like the one you describe. But what if that also shows the same result? Would it still be unfair?
And this particular study is a snapshot in time. If there is a pattern year after year, then obviously a problem exists. People shouldn’t be so defensive about it being public knowledge. What is to gain by burying it?
[quote=“crazy Horse”]
I get your points, and maybe someone should do a study like the one you describe. But what if that also shows the same result? Would it still be unfair?
And this particular study is a snapshot in time. If there is a pattern year after year, then obviously a problem exists. People shouldn’t be so defensive about it being public knowledge. What is to gain by burying it?[/quote]
I don’t want to bury anything. I have no problem with learning the results from a test. If (I am making up numbers) 40% of Prince Rupert students are not meeting expectations while 25% of the province are not meeting expectations, then that is information that might be useful.
My problem is not with the test. Teachers and schools use tests all the time to assess students as individuals and as groups. In the latter case, the information can be used to find problems that hopefully can be addressed to help large groups of students.
The problem with the FSA is that the Fraser Institute uses it to simplistically rank schools without regard to the many differences between schools as well as ignoring all the other factors that may make a good school besides the results of a single test.
Teachers and schools test students on an ongoing basis all year long using those results to help the students (hopefully) improve. Learning that your school ranks 765/850 or even 31/850 does nothing.
I am not trying to defend the school district. There are definite issues that need to be addressed. I share your concern about how our students may be doing - on a variety of tests.
But I don’t value the ranking of schools that comes out once a year and are based on a single factor. They are divisive and cause more harm than good.
There is no denying that the public schools are filled with do-nothing kids…with absolutely NO support from their parents (if they are even around!!). There is no control in the district schools at all…kids are getting away with absolutely everything it seems. The relationship between administration and teachers has eroded to absolute nothing…and the problem is with both sides, not one.
The tune is quite different at Annunciation.
-Parents are heavily involved and CARE
-Kids are well behaved, as bad behaviour is absolutely not tolerated.
-There are consequences attached to inadequate performance.
-They have the best physical education, arts, music and non-immersion french program among elementary schools.
-The administration and teaching staff have a wonderful working relationship, they work toward the common goal, rather than pissing and moaning at each other at every issue under the moon.
-There is no political crap WHATSOEVER.
And the teachers do all of the above at 80% of the salary of a district teacher.
It just feels like a more caring and more welcoming place to go to school.
My kids will be going there, that is not even up for debate at this point. I want my children in a non distracting environment, with the best of the best and that is Annunciation.
The FSA is not the deciding factor in that either…it is just one of MANY of them!
"My problem is not with the test. Teachers and schools use tests all the time to assess students as individuals and as groups. In the latter case, the information can be used to find problems that hopefully can be addressed to help large groups of students. "
Bull. These are the tests that are made public. The parents know and they want to know why. You’d get the same results if you were testing in school and probably have a pretty good idea ahead of time what the results will be, but those ones the parents don’t usually see or even know about.
“The problem with the FSA is that the Fraser Institute uses it to simplistically rank schools without regard to the many differences between schools as well as ignoring all the other factors that may make a good school besides the results of a single test.”
You would likely have a problem with provincial exams at the elementary school level that gave a letter grade result. Parents much prefer them. It doesn’t give us all the information, neither does “falls within the widely held expectations” that appears on every report card for every subject all through elementary school. That little phrase means nothing to us.
“Teachers and schools test students on an ongoing basis all year long using those results to help the students (hopefully) improve. Learning that your school ranks 765/850 or even 31/850 does nothing.”
Wrong. It tells me that this school is doing well or doing poorly against the other schools in the province.
“But I don’t value the ranking of schools that comes out once a year and are based on a single factor. They are divisive and cause more harm than good.”
Certainly I’d expect there’d be lots of grousing round the water cooler by teachers about a low ranking. There SHOULD be. We want better results than we’re getting. If you checked the link above things are not getting better for 3 of the schools named and if I could find the results that went back another five years it wouldn’t be much different.
Of course falling at the bottom of the list is going to be divisive. Who wants to be there? As for causing more harm than good that depends on whether or not you act on the results. An improvement would be good.
“The FSA is not the deciding factor in that either…it is just one of MANY of them.”
^^^What this person said.
[quote=“bthedog”]There is no denying that the public schools are filled with do-nothing kids…with absolutely NO support from their parents (if they are even around!!). There is no control in the district schools at all…kids are getting away with absolutely everything it seems. The relationship between administration and teachers has eroded to absolute nothing…and the problem is with both sides, not one.
The tune is quite different at Annunciation.
-Parents are heavily involved and CARE
-Kids are well behaved, as bad behaviour is absolutely not tolerated.
-There are consequences attached to inadequate performance.
-They have the best physical education, arts, music and non-immersion french program among elementary schools.
-The administration and teaching staff have a wonderful working relationship, they work toward the common goal, rather than pissing and moaning at each other at every issue under the moon.
-There is no political crap WHATSOEVER.
And the teachers do all of the above at 80% of the salary of a district teacher.
It just feels like a more caring and more welcoming place to go to school.
My kids will be going there, that is not even up for debate at this point. I want my children in a non distracting environment, with the best of the best and that is Annunciation.
The FSA is not the deciding factor in that either…it is just one of MANY of them![/quote]
I am 32 years old and I know many people that went to other schools besides annunciation and they turned out fine. So you don’t have to go to a private school to turn out good 
You guys have fun bashing other schools. Sorry not everyone is able to go to the Blue school are they. I know a lot of bad apples that went to the blue school also so what does that say about there stupid rankings.
I never said you have to go to a private school (and its not a private school, its an independent school) to “turn out good” and I never said going to the district schools makes turns you into a “bad apple”.
I am sure there are MANY great students in the district, who go on to do GREAT things…there is no doubt in that and I never stated otherwise.
That being said, there is no denying that Annunciation has the best scholastic environment (and that doesn’t mean just teachers, cause I am not saying the teachers at Annunciation are smarter or better at their jobs than their district counterparts), that fosters positivity. I want my kids to be part of that environment and away from the toxicity of the district schools (until they have to go there).
And I know that not everyone can afford Annunciation…but I like that there is another option in this city besides the district schools for those who have the means to afford it. I wish there was a independent high school here, cause I would pay to send my kids there as well.
I certainly am not the only one in this city who feels this way…there are HUNDREDS of other parents who feel the exact same way.
[quote=“Blue2”]"My problem is not with the test. Teachers and schools use tests all the time to assess students as individuals and as groups. In the latter case, the information can be used to find problems that hopefully can be addressed to help large groups of students. "
Bull. These are the tests that are made public. The parents know and they want to know why. You’d get the same results if you were testing in school and probably have a pretty good idea ahead of time what the results will be, but those ones the parents don’t usually see or even know about.
“The problem with the FSA is that the Fraser Institute uses it to simplistically rank schools without regard to the many differences between schools as well as ignoring all the other factors that may make a good school besides the results of a single test.”
You would likely have a problem with provincial exams at the elementary school level that gave a letter grade result. Parents much prefer them. It doesn’t give us all the information, neither does “falls within the widely held expectations” that appears on every report card for every subject all through elementary school. That little phrase means nothing to us.
“Teachers and schools test students on an ongoing basis all year long using those results to help the students (hopefully) improve. Learning that your school ranks 765/850 or even 31/850 does nothing.”
Wrong. It tells me that this school is doing well or doing poorly against the other schools in the province.
“But I don’t value the ranking of schools that comes out once a year and are based on a single factor. They are divisive and cause more harm than good.”
Certainly I’d expect there’d be lots of grousing round the water cooler by teachers about a low ranking. There SHOULD be. We want better results than we’re getting. If you checked the link above things are not getting better for 3 of the schools named and if I could find the results that went back another five years it wouldn’t be much different.
Of course falling at the bottom of the list is going to be divisive. Who wants to be there? As for causing more harm than good that depends on whether or not you act on the results. An improvement would be good.
“The FSA is not the deciding factor in that either…it is just one of MANY of them.”
^^^What this person said.[/quote]
I agree with pretty much all of this.
I wonder how district teachers would respond to the FSA if their schools were consistently ranked in the top third of BC schools, rather than in the bottom third. Something tells me their reactions would be different.