considering all the important things that might happen here, ie LNG, we need a councillor full time for all the issues surrounding the development coming our way, if it comes our way that is. we do not need a part time councillor, the right thing is resign and have a byelection so the ppl of our city can decide who to represent us at council. the fact she is waffling on it is not a good sign at all.
Agreed.
You know once again i contradict but does anyone think that have an MLA as a city Councillor and the in with victoria to be good thing…?? It could give us a direct “pipeline” to victoria?
An interesting point, but the opposite may be the case. An MLA who is not a councillor may actually be in a better position to lobby on behalf of the City than an MLA who is a councillor.
When Councillor/MLA-elect Rice gets to Victoria she will have to file a disclosure statement under the Members’ Conflict of Interest Regulation in which she will report whether she holds “an office or directorship in an organization or corporation (other than in a social club, religious organization or political party)”.
Under the Community Charter the City is a “corporation” and a council member holds an office. A councillor has a private interest in that the office provides a pecuniary benefit (honouraria of about $1000/month).
An MLA who is not a cabinet minister is not prohibited from holding such an office, but their conduct is subject to the Members’ Conflict of Interest Act:
“3. A member must not exercise an official power or perform an official duty or function if the member has a conflict of interest or an apparent conflict of interest.
4 A member must not use information that is gained in the execution of his or her office and is not available to the general public to further or seek to further the member’s private interest.
5. A member must not use his or her office to seek to influence a decision, to be made by another person, to further the member’s private interest.”
Whether an MLA can represent a municipal government in which they hold elected office is an open question. Once sworn in, Councillor/MLA Rice may be offside the Act if she acts as the City’s ‘direct pipeline’ to the government. Hopefully she will seek a formal opinion from the Commissioner.
The Mayor has expressed opposition to a referendum about new police and fire department facilities because of the cost, but avoids saying how much a vote would actually cost (probably about the same as his participation in the 4th of July parade in Ketchikan). A by-election would provide an opportunity to seek public input on emergency facilities and potentially other questions without additional cost.
Rather than playing into the Mayor’s agenda, Ms Rice may be in a better position to represent the City as an MLA, and may also save herself from having to deal with conflict of interest questions, if she resigns sooner rather than later.
I agree that she was elected to both positions and she does have a responsibility to the people who voted in each election. I do not agree with a lot of her stances and party direction on some major issues, but I don’t question her work ethic or her ability to represent her constituents in each position she holds. I say giver her a chance to fulfill her responsibilities, and if there are issues, then she should address them.
Yes, Councillor/MLA-elect Rice can “represent her constituents in each position she holds”, but only up to a point. An MLA can wear two hats, whether that other hat is being a City councillor, a corporate director or on a society board, but they cannot wear two hats at the same time on the same issue. That’s the problem.
she isn’t the only one considering to keep her councilor seat after winning in the election
vancouversun.com/news/bc-ele … story.html
but while she is in Victoria will she say yes to our local issues and fight for them, ie LNG Plants, now that she is in opposition, and quite possibly go against the wishes of the ppl of our city, while also staying on as councilor, where she has to vote on that issue. that is why most think she should resign so we can vote in another councilor that may or may not support LNG but at least we can decide by having a byelection on it. I don’t think she can put what is in the best interests of the city against her opposition status now. basically she is free to say no to any LNG being built now that there are basically no repurcusiions for doing so in Victoria. so how will she reconcile this issue between her 2 posts one as a councilor and one as an MLA in opposition,
There’s an interesting op-ed in the latest issue of Black Press, entitled “Now is the time for Rice to step down”.
Shaun Thomas cites a very good example of how conflicts may arise between positions Councillor Rice takes on council and the expectations residents of other communities may have of MLA Rice.
The City hopes to expand its’ municipal boundaries, to take in the community water supply (which makes sense) and in other areas so that it can have “Influence over Future Development” (whatever that means). < princerupert.ca/images/edito … ry_map.pdf >. The final decision is up to the Province.
"You simply cannot be a champion for the people outside of Prince Rupert if … what they want conflicts with the wishes of Prince Rupert residents because those same residents have entrusted you to work on their behalf for the benefit of the community.
A perfect example is the boundary expansion — Metlakatla, Port Edward and others have expressed concerns to an idea that would benefit the City of Prince Rupert and the council on which Rice sits … there is no way to look out for the best interests of both communities in the dual role of MLA and city councillor.
Yes, there will be an unexpected cost to the taxpayers of Prince Rupert if Rice resigns in the form of a by-election, but the region needs a dedicated and unbiased representative just as much as Rupertites deserve a dedicated councillor.
Do the right thing, Jennifer, and step down."
does anyone know the voter count per area she won? did she win prince rupert or lose it? did she get most of her votes from the Queen Charlottes and the outlining areas?
[quote=“BTravenn”]There’s an interesting op-ed in the latest issue of Black Press, entitled “Now is the time for Rice to step down”.
Shaun Thomas cites a very good example of how conflicts may arise between positions Councillor Rice takes on council and the expectations residents of other communities may have of MLA Rice.
thenorthernview.com/opinion/208491911.html[/quote]
I am still guessing that she will resign when the ballots are officially counted and she is sworn in as MLA which is early next month.
But what I really want to comment on here (and sorry for going off topic) is the editorial that Shaun Thomas wrote on the issue. I was struck not by how clear, concise, fair, respectful, and fact-based his editorial was (he has always been that way) but how much the tone of his editorial contrasted with the tone of Todd Hamilton’s editorial on the same page.
Mr. Hamilton is free to have the opinions he does about the Liberals, and LNG, and Jennifer Rice. His bias is obvious, and I can live with that. But his disdain for Jennifer (which he doesn’t even attempt to hide) and even for those of us who chose not to vote the way he did (“voters just don’t get it”) are becoming tiresome and even distasteful.
I don’t mind reading opposing editorials; in fact I read the National Post for that reason alone. But I believe that editorials should not be emotion-laden nor the soapbox for someone on a personal crusade.
[quote=“DWhite”]
[quote=“BTravenn”]There’s an interesting op-ed in the latest issue of Black Press, entitled “Now is the time for Rice to step down”.
Shaun Thomas cites a very good example of how conflicts may arise between positions Councillor Rice takes on council and the expectations residents of other communities may have of MLA Rice.
thenorthernview.com/opinion/208491911.html[/quote]
I am still guessing that she will resign when the ballots are officially counted and she is sworn in as MLA which is early next month.
But what I really want to comment on here (and sorry for going off topic) is the editorial that Shaun Thomas wrote on the issue…
I don’t mind reading opposing editorials; in fact I read the National Post for that reason alone. But I believe that editorials should not be emotion-laden nor the soapbox for someone on a personal crusade.[/quote]
Yes, that’s what the mainframe is for!
This will be very interesting to know once the official results are released…Prince Rupert is the most right-leaning area of this riding, so most of the BC Liberal votes came from Prince Rupert/Port Edward polls for sure.
In order for BC Liberals to win the North Coast, they must win a large enough margin in Prince Rupert/Port Edward polls to counter the NDP rich votes from QCI and out-lying aboriginal communities.
I would guess that the BC Liberals won a slim margin in Prince Rupert…but who knows.
[quote=“DWhite”]
I am still guessing that she will resign when the ballots are officially counted and she is sworn in as MLA which is early next month.[/quote]
Perhaps tonight’s council meeting would provide an opportunity for Councillor/MLA-elect Rice to announce or clarify her intentions as to whether or when she might take that bold step, even if formalizing it awaits her imminent swearing in as an MLA.
A while back in an article entitled “Prince Rupert Councillor, MLA-elect addresses dual positions” Black Press quoted Ms Rice as saying “I’m not going to make any abrupt changes. I am going to stay on council as MLA-elect and it is too soon to say what the future holds”.
That really did not address much at all. Hopefully she’ll update us at some point.
The issue of civic politicans being elected as MLAs has come up in other places, a topic that is discussed in some detail by North Coast Review. northcoastreview.blogspot.ca/201 … s-all.html
In Penticton there has been concern about the cost of a by-election to replace their Mayor. He offered to cover the cost, a suggestion that did not sit well with the Mayor of Langley, who was also elected as an MLA. The idea that democracy requires the passing of a hat seems a bit ridiculous.
Of course our own Mayor has expressed concern about the cost of a by-election, which seems a bit ironic coming from him since (if memory serves) he was first elected to council in a by-election to replace former Mayor John Kuz.
Meanwhile a councillor in Delta, who is in the same position as Ms Rice, has announced that he will try to stay on but will not be accepting two pay cheques, since that would be “the ultimate in double-dipping”. I think that’s called taking the high road.
Meanwhile, there certainly has been no lack of clarity from the City’s managers, with a new CAO attending his first meeting with a recommendation to appoint a new CFO to replace Dan Rodin who retired less than two weeks ago, while the Corporate Administrator has announced his resignation. The Mayor was not able to tell us when he will be leaving due to what he regards as “personnel confidentiality”.
The Freedom of Information & Protection of Privacy Act says that information about a civic officer’s “position, functions or remuneration” is public, and that must include when a position ends, but anyway, I guess that with all of the re-shuffling the Mayor hasn’t had the benefit of much advice about the fine points of transparent governance.
(Links and further details about these varous developments and ruminations are provided in the North Coast Review article.)
This is all rather fascinating in a political junkie kind of way.
This thread began back in February as a result of a Todd Hamilton editorial. I wonder what Todd Hamilton would say about Liberal MLA Scott Hamilton staying on as councillor at least until the New Year when he might resign thus saving the taxpayers of Delta the cost of a byelection.
In fact with all the hue and cry about what Jennifer should or should not do, she has been somewhat clear on her intentions.
“My suspicion is that it is not appropriate to do both so the question is, when is the best time to step down that will have the least impact on the community.”
thenorthernview.com/news/207959771.html.
If people have an opinion on what they feel would be the least impact, I hope they are letting Jennifer and/or city council and/or city staff know.
in another side to this Christy Clark stated the MLA"s that were elected and are councillers or mayors in their communities should just take a leave of absence to spare the communities the cost of an byelection and just resign the beginning of next year. even though I voted Liberal i disagree with her on this, communities need councillors and mayors to fight for them, MLA"s fight for their whole region. maybe a solution would be the parties they were elected to pick up the tab or the province pick up the tab for the byelectiions.
[quote=“DWhite”]
In fact with all the hue and cry about what Jennifer should or should not do, she has been somewhat clear on her intentions.
“My suspicion is that it is not appropriate to do both so the question is, when is the best time to step down that will have the least impact on the community.”
thenorthernview.com/news/207959771.html.
If people have an opinion on what they feel would be the least impact, I hope they are letting Jennifer and/or city council and/or city staff know.[/quote]
The council meeting might have been a good opportunity for Councillor/MLA-elect Rice to clarify her intentions or respond to comments or questions, but unfortunately she was not in attendance.
DWhite:
How can you call that quote “clear on her intentions??” Sounds prettyy vague to me. She “suspects” it may be inappropriate - of course, it is! Both jobs are too bigh for her to do them both justice. And she ponders "when will be the best time . . . " Now is the best time. Get it done. Council can still operate without her, as they showed at the recent meeting. It’s not like she ever contributed much anyway.
[quote=“drummerboy”]DWhite:
How can you call that quote “clear on her intentions??” Sounds prettyy vague to me. She “suspects” it may be inappropriate - of course, it is! Both jobs are too bigh for her to do them both justice. And she ponders "when will be the best time . . . " Now is the best time. Get it done. Council can still operate without her, as they showed at the recent meeting. It’s not like she ever contributed much anyway.[/quote]
drummerboy:
When quoting me be sure to use all the adjectives. I said “somewhat clear”. But I will go out on a limb and say that it is even clearer than somewhat. She said that she would stay on as MLA-elect. That means she will not resign before being sworn in. Then she suspects (and most would agree), that it being inappropriate to hold two positions, she will resign. The unclear part is exactly when. And the discussion on that is whether the community wants, needs, can afford a byelection.
This thread started as a result of a highly personal attack on Jennifer, demanding she resign from council when she was just nominated as the NDP candidate. Now that she is elected some people are continuing the personal attacks. You have every right to think that “council can still operate without her” and “it’s not like she ever contributed much anyway” but those are strictly personal attacks that have nothing to do with the issue of when she should resign.
As Jabber pointed out, the premier has suggested that the 11 MLA-elects take a leave of absence until the new year to save communities the expense of a byelection. And as Jabber also pointed out not everybody (Jabber for one) agrees with the premier.
This will all be solved shortly and whatever Jennifer decides I am sure there will be criticism.
[quote=“DWhite”]
… she will not resign before being sworn in. Then she suspects (and most would agree), that it being inappropriate to hold two positions, she will resign. The unclear part is exactly when. And the discussion on that is whether the community wants, needs, can afford a byelection.
This thread started as a result of a highly personal attack on Jennifer, demanding she resign from council when she was just nominated as the NDP candidate. Now that she is elected some people are continuing the personal attacks. You have every right to think that “council can still operate without her” and “it’s not like she ever contributed much anyway” but those are strictly personal attacks that have nothing to do with the issue of when she should resign.
…
This will all be solved shortly and whatever Jennifer decides I am sure there will be criticism.[/quote]
I can understand the sensitivies resulting from Todd Hamilton’s editorial that started the thread, which you describe as a “highly personal attack”. He maintained that Ms Rice should resign in order to be a candidate for MLA.
He used a rather strained analogy between elected office and having a job, his thinking being that before running (applying) for another office (job) a person should resign their existing office (job). Lots of people hold one job while applying for another, and politicians are entitled to do the same. What he was saying was absurd. Questions only arise if they are elected to another office.
I struggled through his latest piece which I would have ignored if you hadn’t mentioned it. He used another strained analogy, this time about how we took a “.22 in the shoulder” when Ms Rice was elected and, even more bizarre, that because the NDP did not win provincially we had dodged “a .45 magnum aimed right at our head”. Presumably, it was about to blow our collective head “clean awff” (no slight to Clint Eastwood fans is intended).
Maybe Black Press thinks that treating its’ readers like dummies sells newspapers. I doubt that it does, but that aside, Shaun Thomas wrote a very good editorial pointing out some of the conflicts that can arise when an MLA is also a Councillor, such as when Rupert and the outlying communities do not have common interests, the boundary expansion proposal being a case in point.
I don’t see drummerboy’s comments as being at all like Mr Hamilton’s hyperbole laden prose, which on this topic has been offensive to some, no doubt, and boring or silly to quite a few of the rest of us, I suspect.
Saying that “Council can still operate without her” is simply a statement of fact. The council can operate so long as there is a quorum, which there will be, with two to spare, if and when Ms Rice resigns. The question is whether the council should have a by-election. I agree with jabber that with LNG emerging as a major issue - it dominated much of last night’s meeting - we need a strong council.
As for “it’s not like she ever contributed much anyway”, that’s more in the fair comment category; disputed by some, agreed with by others, but within the bounds of usual political discourse. I don’t think that anyone who pays attention is likely to say that all politicians do a great job all the time.
You’re probably right, Ms Rice probably will resign at some point or at least announce some intentions. I’m not sure why that has to wait until she is actually sworn in. After all, having gotten 56% of the vote it’s not like a judicial recount is likely or underway.
And when she does announce her intentions, I wouldn’t assume that there will be criticism. Mr Hamilton may have something to say, but you don’t have to pay attention to that. I pretty much tuned out when his analogy was that people who make a living collecting bottles are fish.
[quote=“BTravenn”]
I don’t see drummerboy’s comments as being at all like Mr Hamilton’s hyperbole laden prose, which on this topic has been offensive to some, no doubt, and boring or silly to quite a few of the rest of us, I suspect.
Saying that “Council can still operate without her” is simply a statement of fact. The council can operate so long as there is a quorum, which there will be, with two to spare, if and when Ms Rice resigns. The question is whether the council should have a by-election. I agree with jabber that with LNG emerging as a major issue - it dominated much of last night’s meeting - we need a strong council.
As for “it’s not like she ever contributed much anyway”, that’s more in the fair comment category; disputed by some, agreed with by others, but within the bounds of usual political discourse. I don’t think that anyone who pays attention is likely to say that all politicians do a great job all the time.
You’re probably right, Ms Rice probably will resign at some point or at least announce some intentions. I’m not sure why that has to wait until she is actually sworn in. After all, having gotten 56% of the vote it’s not like a judicial recount is likely or underway.
And when she does announce her intentions, I wouldn’t assume that there will be criticism. Mr Hamilton may have something to say, but you don’t have to pay attention to that. I pretty much tuned out when his analogy was that people who make a living collecting bottles are fish.[/quote]
You are right. drummerboy’s comments did not reach the hyperbole of Todd Hamilton. That would be a very difficult feat.
As well, drummerboy has every right (as I mentioned) to have the opinion he does about Jennifer. All of it is fair comment. There is no problem with that. In fact, if he hadn’t under quoted me, I am not sure if I would have even responded to his post.
Perhaps, I read too much between his lines (“tone” in print is difficult to figure) and I apologize for that. It is certainly fair comment to suggest that council can operate without her because that is one of the reasons (perhaps the only reason) why byelections may not be worth the expense for councilors.
Anyway, Jennifer is not alone in making this decision. She is not the only MLA-elect who has to make the decision and perhaps she is just waiting for further advice or clarification like some other MLA-elects are doing.
It will happen and it will result in some criticism either way because I imagine some people will want a byelection while others will see it as a waste of money.