Re: Mumps outbreak - lower mainland

:unamused: … tions.html

“Since February, nearly 200 people in the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver have been infected with the normally rare virus. The outbreak has been traced back to a Fraser Valley religious group that opposes the mumps vaccination.”

Jeezuz said "Suffer the children"
so we’ll make them suffer all right. Buah-hah-hah

(rand ad jingle tune) We put the Mental in FundaMental

Almost as bad as all those people who won’t immunize their kids because they believe it causes autism. 

Hey, if you’re going to believe in something with no scientific basis, believing Jesus doesn’t want you to immunize your kid is the same as believing Jenny McCarthy when she says immunizations cause autism.

I hate how religious groups pick what they can and cant use

I always wonder why some healthy kids at the age of 3 and 4 develop autism? and why over the last 10 years or so there is a higher percentage in some city’s  and countries. 

Or is it more then better understanding and diagnosis, or is it due to the environmental issues.

either way there are more children developing  autism.

And the rate is exactly the same in kids that aren’t immunized.

It’s like saying wearing shoes causes autism.  Since all these autistic kids have that in common, it must be the reason.

My comment was entirely in error.
Fundamentalists don’t go “Buah-ah-ah”. That would be too revealing.
They always smile, like Jack Nicholson with an axe, chopping thru the door…

Ohh is that so? I find your off the cuff comment somewhat insulting, and no rates are not the same in unimmunized populations, its one of the few things that actually stand out. The research is inconclusive at this point so we just dont know what it is but to watch what appears to be a healthy normal child begin to deteriorate right after being immunized certainly creates concern in parents with children it has happened to. Think of the liability if it was to be found true, they would never admit to it even if were the case, the pharmaceutical companies have overwhelming power and control over government and finance research that always is their favor. Scientists worldwide state if they dont find the desired results their research grants dry up, and its this system we must depend on for answers. The fox watches the henhouse for us, what faith can we have in their published findings?

So it’s another conspiracy?  Imagine the liability if they found that shoes cause autism. 

Exact same argument.  Seriously, go through your research, and every time they say vaccine or immunization, replace the words with shoes.  It works just as well, and there is just as much evidence.  I can honestly see the rates of autism being lower with kids who don’t wear shoes, too.

The problem is that people confuse correlation with causation.

But if it’s a conspiracy, then there’s no real way to debate it, because any contrary evidence becomes a part of the conspiracy.

It’s the same thing that’s going on with the Guardasil vaccination.
Quite a few young ladies developed horrible symptoms, and some now have to live with disease. There wasn’t enough research done, and it will never BE done because it’s not in the pharmaceutical industries best intrest. Millions and millions can be made from those vaccinations, it’s all about the $$$. Why would they want to prove it’s bad for you?

11 Deaths have been caused by Guardasil, thousands of complaints, is anything being done? Nope. And people are just as ignorant as ever about it.

Are you going to say that in that scenario it’s just coincidence too? Is that just paranoia? A conspiracy?

Like I said, there’s no point in arguing belief.  Conspiracy Theories have their own escape logic. Just like religion. 

You fail to answer my question MiG, as always.

So Guardasil being horrible for young teen women, that’s just me being a conspiracy theorist?
I’m just one of those tinfoil hat wearing freaks eh? Awesome!
You wouldn’t be so quick to judge if you’d just open your eyes, or do you have too much to lo$e?

I don’t have any clue about Gardasil (except how to spell it properly).

What I mean is that there is no way to have a debate about a conspiracy theory, because all good conspiracy theories have an escape clause.  No matter what evidence to the contrary, you can always say “that’s what the government/Big Pharma/the army/the NSA/the Pope/whoever wants you to think.”

I liken it to religion, because there’s nothing you can say to a “true believer” that will disprove their particular religious ideas.  You can point to contradictions, or faults in logic, but it doesn’t matter, they’ll always have the escape clause:  “The Lord works in mysterious ways” etc.

For example, even though I have no idea about Gardasil (except how to spell it), I could say that whatever it is you are talking about happened because God made it happen.  That’s what I believe.  How can you disprove that?  Any logic you throw at it can just be shot down with the escape clause.

I didn’t say anything about you wearing tinfoil or being a freak, please don’t put words in my mouth.  When you do, it’s a reflection of you, not of what I think.  I’m not sure why you are taking this as a personal attack on you, but it isn’t. 

The fact that you think it is a personal attack on you is a good reflection of your character more than it is a statement about what I actually said.

But anyway, that’s how you know a good conspiracy theory, though, it always has a good escape clause.  If it didn’t, it wouldn’t be a good conspiracy theory, since it would be easy to disprove. 

Good conspiracy theories depend on not being able to prove a negative. 

I’m with MiG, whatever he said.

I’m just bothered alot by this gardasil thing. I can’t believe ANYONE could sell something so horrid. And if they can do that, why wouldn’t they feel absolutely fine with selling something to young children to cause autism?

It’s possible.

I really urge all Mothers and daughters to RESEARCH this innoculation before they even consider it. PLEASE?

Here’s some links

[quote]By NWV Staff Writer, Sarah Foster
Posted 1:00 AM Eastern
July 17, 2008

"The records indicate 10 deaths since last September, bringing the total number of Gardasil-connected death reports in the United States to at least 18 – four of these were from blood clots, nine from unknown or unidentifiable causes.

The fatalities include:

      A 20-year-old woman with no medical history reported, who was vaccinated April 1, 2008, with Gardasil and died four days later, seeking medical attention. An autopsy was performed which ruled out suicide or anything suspicious. The cause of death is currently unknown. [VAERS ID 310262-1 (D)]
      A 12-year-old girl with no reported medical problems, who died in her sleep of known causes on Oct. 6, 2007, three weeks after receiving a Gardasil shot. [VAERS ID: 297528-1 (D)]
      An 11-year-old girl, vaccinated in May 2007 with a first dose of Gardasil, who died three days later after going to an emergency room. A physician at the hospital said “death was due to an anaphylactic [severe allergic] reaction to Gardasil.â€[/quote]

In a few years there maybe more people born with autism, then with out, maybe this is our evolution. or devolution. 
At one time back in the 70’s, 1  in 10,000 children developed autism, it now affects as many as 1 in 150. And again in some places it is higher.
So maybe in 100 year everyone will have autism. maybe its caused by sun spots, Maybe something from the environment, Maybe something in the vaccines.

what ever is causing it is something to be alarmed about.

Astro it’s hard to give much weight to what you are saying due entirely to too many "maybe"s

Well, one of the main reasons for the increased rate in “Autism” is the advances made in the assessment tools used to identify it.  Also, what do you mean when you say “Autism”?  Under the “Autism” umbrella are a number of related disorders that differ in severity, such as Rett’s Syndrome, Asperger’s Syndrome, PDD, or classic Kanner Autism.

I’m no Doctor, Duh. and its not about the “weight in the maybe’s” its about the numbers, the % of kids born, and like David said some are due to better and faster diagnosis, but from 1 in 10,000 children to 1 in 150 children in 30 years is in my books is alarming… 

And that scientists and Doctors still don’t have a clue if its environmental or biological, is also concerning, as it could be anything that is causing the high rates seen in children. 

The problem is that people confuse correlation with causation.[/quote]

Does that go for “taser related” deaths as well Mig?