No one interested in Pro-Rep?


#1

Curious, not a peep on HTMF about the referendum for ProRep.


#2

What’s the latest on the referendum?


#3

Minority governments/ coalitions will be the end result if pro rep gets passed, which means a less than productive term for the elected.
My fear ( well, not fear, but…) is that the public will
Vote against something instead of for something, much like how people vote provincially and federally.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.


#4

I’ll just spin that right around and send it right back to you.

  1. Coalition, you mean like we have right now under FPTP?
  2. You mean they might vote FOR a BC Conservative because one could get elected instead of AGAINST the NDP?

#5

I voted for Pro-Rep. I don’t like the idea of one party getting a small percentage of the vote and having complete power (FPTP).
I will be very curious to see how this plays out.


#6

If you call our current provincial govt a coalition, I’ve got some land for sale under a bridge.
The Green Party is but a feather in the NDP
pillow.
On your second point. Sure. I’m tired of voters saying " this guy’s / gal’s gotta go." Step up and vote for a platform or ideology I say.

There are too many unanswered points as to what the ballot ( under the Pro Rep ) would even look like.Is the current system really that bad? Not in my eyes.
Has the present system had a negative effect on my life? Nope.

Politicians are politicians.The way we vote for them won’t change that.

'Always appreciate a respectful discussion.


#7

I dunno, some of the things we think are most “Canadian” were passed with minority governments. Some of our social safety net, universal healthcare, UN peacekeeping, etc.

Minority governments, or as the rest of the world calls them, “Governments”, work by consensus. Instead of FPTP “Mandate to do whatever the hell I want.”


#8

I have a hard time with coalitions.
A few parties battle it out ( and it gets nasty) during an election and then, within a few weeks, all is forgotten. A couple parties kiss and make up while forming the next govt.
I often think if the Green Party qould have faired better in the long run with the Liberals. Something tells me their membership would have increased.I digress.
FPTP ensures a more stable party platform.
Usually.


#9

Well, in many places they don’t really “battle it out” and “get nasty” with parties that they hope to cooperate with in the future. They try and find common ground. That’s the point. Consensus, not “winner take all.”

How does it do that? I see parties changing their minds all the time with FPTP.

What is the BC NDP’s stance on a Carbon Tax, for example? Or the gun registry?

In proportional representation, you have parties with very stable platforms, sometimes a 1-issue party. They form coalitions or support governments that can help them accomplish their goals.


#10

voted no prefer a Ranked system over fptp, pro rep is just awarding ppl that couldn’t win


#11

There are trade offs to both systems. It comes down to which values are important to you.

We can agree to disagree about how pre election debates get heated and alot of times personal.
My point is that it must be very hard for parties to govern together (after an election) when personal shots are taken at each other. And it does get nasty. Especially when family members of the leaders are dragged into the picture. (Christy Clark’s kids attending private schools? That’s very personal. Her children? Really?)

In my opinion, a party with a stable platform is not a ‘1 issue party’ . That’s just me, it’s too easy.
This can lead to fringe parties ( alt right) holding the balance.

Sorry. I can’t vote for a system where there are so many questions that remain unanswered.
If your gonna change the system give me some answers about how many MLAs and how many votes We’ll have.

If the public wants to change the existing system there better be a sunset clause in the bill.

Having said all this, will we really notice a difference in our day to day lives if there is a change?


#12

Yes, I believe so. Most people in the province support a Green or center-left agenda. With Pro-rep we will be less likely to see a right wing party hold complete power.


#13

It could be argued that most political parties are centered these days.
Hope you and your family have a wonderful weekend.


#14

Thank you! I hope you have a lovely family weekend as well.


#15

And my point is that “personal shots” aren’t taken in a system where parties know they’ll have to cooperate after an election. If the “personal shots” are taken, then those parties are less likely to be invited into a coalition.

And that’s the bottom line. Proportional Representation is literally about representing the electorate. Where as FPTP is about “winning” and saying “screw you, I get to do what I want now, because 39% of the people voted for me.”

You’ll note that the whole Proportional Representation took root in BC after this election:

I really do understand that the established parties would be against Proportional Representation, because they have learned how to “game the system” and “win” and even change the system to their benefit. All this just to “win” instead of actually governing by consensus.

How many times have you heard “don’t vote for party X because party Y is going to win, and we don’t want our riding to not be represented” ?


#16

I’ll be surprised if any option other than FPTP get’s voted in just because of confusion about what the other options actually are. I could barely wrap my head around this stuff myself, and frankly I still don’t feel like I do, so how do I explain the options to my parents? I couldn’t. Other friends who asked me for help? I couldn’t.


#17

Yeah, I get that.

I try to explain to my relatives outside of Canada, that you could have a party get 40% of the vote, and have 100% of the power. They couldn’t wrap their heads around that either :slight_smile:


#18

Come on guys, this is basically the third time around for STV, The Yup for RUP is an adaption so we in the boonies don’t get huge multi-member ridings.
The Libs were behind the last two, but suddenly realize there’s no way they could ever get Green support and won’t risk losing conservatives from their ‘big tent free enterprise tent’ to their own party.
The BC Conservatives are the actual fringe they’re shitting bricks over.
The Green Party is mainstream now, nobody’s going to ‘get rid’ of their influence.

And IMHO minority govt’s that need to cooperate are a hell of a lot more “stable” than these incessant lurches in the opposite direction we’ve undergone in this province.


#19

Because of the Postal BS, the time has been extended to Dec 7th to send ballots in.