One is a hardware test CD, another is a “restore and application install” DVD, I think. It has the Tiger install on it as well. If you need a 4-CD or 1-DVD standalone Tiger install, contact The Russians.
[quote]ADD: my laptops an A70 P4 3.0 GHz, if I put it on my lap you’ll smell the bacon cooking after ten minutes. But you’ll have to use the bloody touchpad too, so they only time I ever do that is in the field. 95% of the time it’s on a table or desk with a USB mouse attached.
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My Dell is way too hot when it’s off and just charging. There’s no way to use it on a lap when it’s charging – the fan’s even going at full blast.
The dell laptop is to hot to use it on your lap but yet you post a picture of it being used on a lap. I don’t get it. > flickr.com/photos/mig/109570600/
All i can say right now is i warn the next person to buy a apple mabook / pro. I can garantee they will be disapointed…
just for the record, your reference to hoshqing made me laugh.
you’ve got kung fu argument skills MiG, maybe I’m biased as reading this thread I believe you have the highground (being correct), but you’re just so serene smacking everyones arguments down with a deftly-placed leg sweep or block-chop combo.
Well, since we’re talking about me being a bastard …
I had lunch with Hoshq one day, and he was like "how come you always win?" and I basically told him that I’ll never get involved in an argument unless I know I’ll win. And if it looks like I’m not going to win, then admit defeat as soon as possible.
Then he challenged me to a game of chess. I declined – not that I’m bad at chess, but I’ll bet he would kick my ass. The only way I’m going to play a game of chess is against a 2-year old… when I know I’ll win.
Hoshq’s main problem here on HTMF would be that he would say something that he didn’t think through, or didn’t really believe.  Then I’d jump all over him, and he’d try like heck to change the topic rather than admit that he really didn’t believe what he said.
You’ll notice there are topics and arguments that I never take part in, and those are the ones where I’m completely clueless.
And it didn’t work for me. Yet another complaint. I’ve done 4 ubuntu installs this month, none of them were able to install the plugin without doing it manually.
So the whole point being, that if “number of complaints” is your deciding factor in buying something, then Linux will never win. Windows and Mac OS X will. Your average person will complain most about Linux, then maybe more about Windows (when the viruses and spyware catch up), and least about Mac OS X. That’s all we’re arguing about here, not which is better or worse or does whatever, but which one has the most complaints from your average joe.
Not that “number of complaints” isn’t that great of a deciding factor in choosing to buy something, but it is the bone of contention here. Â
Like I said this argument just goes around in circles, you had problems installing it I didnt I could screenshot it but whats the point Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
I still maintain what I’ve always maintained: Linux would generate more complaints from your average joe than Mac OS X or Windows.
It’s not about me, or you, it’s about your average Joe. Sure I had issues installing, but I found them easy to fix, as would you. I’m not an average joe, neither are you.
The basic disagreement is this: I think your average joe would have a more difficult time with Linux than with Mac OS X or Windows. You think your average joe would have an easier time with Linux. I think you’re wrong.
That’s not circular at all. The circular part is that you think “average joe” means you. It doesn’t. You keep ignoring that part, and keep trying to move the conversation away from that, but that’s the basic disagreement.
This jre install was done on my Slackware box and yes you do need to run chmod to get “root” permission to install, run the file if done as a regular user. But, why argue with me? Why not take your fight up with Sun. The instructions that I provided are there’s not mine.
But, you’re right I’m sure Sun has it wrong.
This was a manual command-line install, not a point and click install with Synaptic. You can’t use a shiny GUI to install JRE in Slackware.
Even when you are presented with proof you won’t admit you’re wrong. Wow.
Now for an application that requires the official Java (Sun’s Java), there’s no easy way to install it, especially for an average user.
For example, BC is deploying a province-wide enterprise information system for its school system. It requires the Sun Java plugin. There’s no easy way for a teacher (an “average user”) to install this by themselves on a Linux box. It’s easy enough in Windows (just download the program and install it), and even easier in Mac OS X (it’s already there).
So again, which one do you think would generate the most complaints from an average user?
Now take any other task, ie: burning a DVD from a Powerpoint presentation, sync’ing an iPod with podcasts and Limewire downloads, etc, and you’ll get the same thing: easy enough for me and you to do in Linux, but not so easy for your average joe. Not as easy as in Windows or Mac OS X, though.
You’re not the average joe.
If you really want to settle this, how about we actually do it? We’ll get a few “average users” and give them a linux box, a windows box and a mac os x box and give them a bunch of tasks to perform. What do you think?
Personally, I’d have to question your impression of what the average user is capable of doing if you think they’d have no problems in Linux, or even if they’d know what the hell Linux was…
Yea and chmod has nothing to do with gaining root genius, chmod +x is to give the file executeable permissions. Maybe you should learn what the fuck you are talking about before you start making comments.
Just tried to walk someone thru moving their static IP from the computer to the router. The windows box kept showing a 169.xxx.xxx.xxx. Poked in the numbers, she called back. Still a 169 address. She was crying by then, so I had no choice but to do the freebie visit thing…
Computer in the WAN port, DSL in a LAN port. Even after repeatedly asking and being assured it was otherwise.
And you want to loose a CLI and tarball on someone like that?
Average users can do fine on a linux box that hs been installed for them just like they do fine on a windows box installed for them thats my point nothing more nothing less. You wouldnt see too many average users figuring out how to install windows on their new laptop unless you used one of the cd images that does all the driver configuration for you and I can build one of those for linux.
My point isnt that one OS is better its that anyone can use a machine thats already configured and ready to go no matter the OS. The “average user” is quite a misleading term are they an average windows user? linux user? mac user? I am sure someone iwth average computer skills on a linux box could figure out how to install java in linux. What about if they had never used windows… think they could on windows? I bet they would complain wouldnt they.
Like I said this argument is dumb and will go nowhere.
hitest get back to me when you actually know what you’re talking about thanks.
That’s exactly it. The best tech support people are able to put themselves in the shoes of the average user. I have trouble with it sometimes (especially with some elementary teachers!), but I have to keep reminding myself that not every user would know what a command line was, and wouldn’t have a clue how to use one.
[quote]Alas, there were a few smaller items that ended up being big gotchas. My Atheros WiFi card was not seen at all. After messing around for a couple of hours I was able to get the MadWiFi driver up and running, which allowed me to see my adapter. There was no way to scan for networks, so I manually typed in my WiFi network name. My network was encrypted via WPA, which was not supported, so I turned encryption off for this test. As much as I tried I could not get WiFi to connect. It didn’t give me an error, it just would not connect to my WiFi network. Even if I was able to connect, not supporting WPA security is a big no-no for me. I would have liked to have seen much broader WiFi support built in, with a much better toolset for joining wireless networks. Nothing too fancy, actually I would love to see something as elegant as what Apple has built in to Mac OS X. I’m sure that if I messed around for a lot longer I would have been able to not only get the WiFi adapter working but also using WPA; however, that’s not the point. Users should not have to work for hours to get devices working on any platform. The geeks can do it, but for mass adoption the process needs to be as simple as humanly possible.
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Yeah, we’re all great with Linux (and Hitest knows a lot of linux, believe me, Jesus). But we’re not average users.
Aren’t you a tech support guy, Jesus? How do you handle customers who don’t know what you know?
No, They wouldnt have to touch a tarball and cli, synaptic is great (I want office… type in office) do you think that user would be installing their own system or buying one with java and linux and office installed? Once its set up if they were half intelligent they could do what they want and probably like it once they got used to the new system. Of course a windows or mac user is going to complain when you force them to use linux they dont know what they are doing, you cant define average user unless they have average skills on each operating system in which case all of this is a non issue.
Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
