So can you imagine an all non native tournie of any kind?Would NOT be allowed so the race card is a very valid comment even if some refuse to see it for what it is…all about how much money it brings in…not that I object,just give us whities the same rules to play by!
You’re racist.
racâ‹…ism  –noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Sorry Jesus but I see none of that here. Of course, ultimately it depends what definition YOU choose to give it.
What makes you so sure that a “non native tournie” wouldn’t be allowed? … who is going sue or charge you in what court or tribunal and for violating what law? … can you fill us in on some of those details? … it’s an honest question because I really don’t know …
… not all forms of discrimination are prohibited … who hasn’t stood outside a locked washroom and thought it seems wrong that we’re not supposed to use the one reserved for the other gender? … and what’s with those seniors … playing cards and having cheap lunches … enjoying meals and wheels and so on … how come we’re not invited? … and why can’t I join the Chinese Freemasons? … not my fault where I come from …
So anyway … here’s a scissors and paste from the TOC of the BC Human Rights Code … listing the various forms of prohibited discrimination … do you see a prohibition concerning sporting events or cultural associations? … or should we be looking somewhere else to find the law prohibiting your all-white tourney?
- Discriminatory publication
- Discrimination in accommodation, service and facility
- Discrimination in purchase of property
- Discrimination in tenancy premises
- Discrimination in employment advertisements
- Discrimination in wages
- Discrimination in employment
- Discrimination by unions and associations
I hope you don’t leave us dangling … I’d still like to know what the Mayor did on the plane to Vancouver … I think you disappointed more than a few of us on that one …
[quote=“BTravenn”] or should we be looking somewhere else to find the law prohibiting your all-white tourney?
[/quote]
I’m going to preface this by saying that I’ve nothing against the ANBT–it’s been a cool event we’ve been lucky enough to hold in Rupert every year that does provide a nice boost to business coffers for the short time they’re here.
However BTravenn, while you might be right that no one would be able to legally stop an “All White Basketball Tournament,” you’ve gotta agree that the press and criticisms it would receive from every direction would make it near impossible to hold.
Still, I don’t think the tone of the ANBT has ever been about excluding non-Native players, but celebrating the talented Native players from around the Province.
Annnnd the Mayor was making out with his GF on the flight, quite vigorously. Nothing fancy, but kinda funny because it’s the Mayor.
… I see … there’s not going to be an all-white tourney … instead you’re taking us on a nationwide tour of examples of employment discrimination by aboriginal organizations … okay … lets go to Ottawa and talk to the Canadian Human Rights Commission about this … here’s what they have to say:
“It is not a discriminatory practice for an employer to give preferential treatment to Aboriginal persons in hiring, promotion or other aspects of employment, when the primary purpose of the employer is to serve the needs of Aboriginal people.”
Their full analysis and policy can be found here: chrc-ccdp.ca/legislation_pol … ent-en.asp
… while we’re here, we might as well talk to the Department of Justice about other forms of discrimination … in particularly the requirement for employers to implement “positive policies and practices” to favour what the Employment Equity Act calls “designated groups” … that refers to “women, aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities and members of visible minorities”.
That’s one reason why in workplaces we have been increasingly encountering people obviously originating from distant lands … people in wheelchairs or with other physical disabilities that don’t prevent them from doing the job … aboriginal people … and of course a staggering number of women … times have indeed changed since the Jurassic Age … or as far as that goes since just a couple of decades ago.
DOJ will provide further details here: laws.justice.gc.ca/en/E-5.401/index.html
… in a way I don’t know what to say … no politicians seem to be on your side … Harper made some changes to the human rights laws … but the forms of discrimination we’ve just reviewed didn’t seem to come up … even he seems to be committed to leveling the employment playing field … actually I wish that he would do something about the main form of hiring discrimination in Rupert called “it’s about who you know” …
… I still don’t see why you can’t have your all-white tourney though … although I wonder whether the gate receipts will be sufficient to cover the civic centre rental … I won’t be attending … but you know I don’t attend the ANBT either … other than to have some lunch and look at local arts and crafts … and buy the occasional item … putting a few shekels back into the local economy.
They have a WHITE GUY running the tournament. They call it the All Native because the tournament is from Native communities. Because lets face it - if you’re raised in a native community, you kind of ARE native.
And like anything these days, it doesn’t matter if it’s descriminitive, blatantly racist, un-ethical or immoral, as long as there are dollars involved, people shut up, put up, put out, facilitate, coordinate and accomodate. It’s all the same BS with everything, its just the wording of the public-face of the topic - which is all spin in news, promotion and advertising.
They could actually advertise the All Native as a basketball and court demonstration… I rest my case…
Not even sure what the argument is here.
If we want an all Scottish or an all Chinese or an all Egyptian tournament with people from those ethnic backgrounds representing their home communities around the northwest, then by all means organize one. Good luck fielding teams.
We live in a first nations region. As far as I can tell, basketball takes second place to family and community and culture. People of first nations descent get a lot of pride and enjoyment from this event. Nobody is harmed from the so-called discrimination. I say good for them.
You know, I have no problem with the tourney, the money it brings in, or the people who participate in it. But I do have a problem with the fact that if a white organization were to hold an “all caucasian tournament” or something of the like. I know, that there would be MUCH, MUCH, MUCH complaints from the aboriginal, and ethnic communities. So what I want to know is, why is holding an all caucaisian tournament, any different from calling it an all native tournament? Why does it seem that aboriginal people are exempt from descrimination complaints? I’ve seen those native pride hats around town… Can you imagine if someone busted out a “white pride” hat?
The whole point of stopping racial descrimination is so that everyone can be equal, because everyone IS equal, and human. So why do other nationalities, sexes, etc. Get better treatment than others? We’re going backwards, now, men are descriminated against because women are hired before them, Aboriginals are hired before caucasian decent… It’s flipped around. and is starting to get just as bad…
That’s my thoughts on things anyways.
Thanks B Traveen… your analysis seems solid enough. You’ve used facts to correct & adjust the subsidy downwards to circa $24,000 the ANBT stands to receive and I thank you. BTW the factor of 6.25 wasn’t the number of days the centre was tied up it was the dollar ratio of expenses to revenue that Rodin was quoted on.
Turning to the race issue, I hope you are not saying that as long as there is money in it … discrimination is ok? I personally greatly value cultural diversity, have great respect for the first nations and sorrow for the way they have been treated in the past… but going forward I abhor discrimination of any form.
Sorry if it is not politically correct to ask questions when it comes to native events but I think that question is quite valid unless the premise it is based on is incorrrect. If participation in the ANBT is open to all than my question deserves to be dumped in the wasteland and I’ll be the first to apologize to any people I have offended. However, both grey hair and s_thoma are supporting my understanding that participation in the tourney is restricted based on race… and they are using public facilities. If anyone can refute this understanding, my apologies will be forthcoming.
B. Traveen has asked where you draw the line… and my answer is wherever discrimination exists no matter what segment of society is excluded and yes that would apply to events put on by Norwegian, Indo, Chinese, Portuguese, Philippino, Vietnamese, Metis or anyone else. In order for multiculturalism to flourish, we have to be able to talk openly and honestly and ask the hard questions of each other.
By the way since we are on the subject of City Council and preferential treatment, how is it that a private company like Maher Terminals gets a front page link on the City’s website? Is the same treatment available to any other business in Prince Rupert like Sun Wave? And no… I welcome Maher Terminals and am not anti port development 
… I think that you and bubbasteve offer pretty balanced perspectives … taken overall … perhaps relative youth has something to do with it … just a thought …
I’m not sure if there would be that much hue and cry about an all-white tourney … to quite a few it would probably come across as just too weird or embarrassing to discuss. After all … what would be celebrated through sport … “whiteness”? … what is that? … sounds almost like celebrating nothingness … people who come from no where in particular … maybe a few uncomfortable associations … people in pointy hats … jackboots and runic symbols … I better stop there lest I Godwin the thread …
Also, an all-white tourney doesn’t sound very enjoyable or interesting … sounds a bit bland … what special food will be served that reflects whiteness … donuts and timbits? … will there be special attire or ceremonial dress? … no doubt some will wear their best ballcap and logoed t-shirt … any special performances for opening or closing or half time? … no, everyone will probably just shuffle around as per usual … many looking downcast and melancholic … Doesn’t sound like much fun.
As for discrimination, there’s a difference between discrimination and accommodation … we accommodate differences … build ramps to accommodate the disabled and elderly … gender-based washrooms of course, even if that means some uncomfortable delays … urged on by human rights law some employers make an extra effort to accommodate visible minorities, disabled people, aboriginals and women … those who historically haven’t had membership in the old boys clubs … by making sure that they get a fair shake when hiring decisions are made …
But bubbasteve’s point … as I read her insight … seems well taken … sometimes accommodating others may become oppressive … the pendulum may swing too far … I once went to an interview with an all-female panel that asked me what I would do to hire more women … I still regret not telling them what I really thought … hire someone other than me if gender rather than qualifications is the priority … but I sucked it up and moved on …
… and when people come from foreign lands or from one of our indigenous cultures we try not to be ignorant or insensitive … maybe not always successfully … unlike the French of late we haven’t gotten into petty debates about whether Muslim women should be allowed to wear head scarfs …
… most of us don’t seem to mind if people celebrate their cultures … so long as we’re not required to join in if we don’t want to … maybe accommodating others is just a fancy way of saying ‘what do I care’, ‘makes no difference to me’, ‘as if…’ and so on …
So do cultural or sporting events by the ethnic communities and associations that can manage to pull together an event during grim times constitute a tyranny by the minority against the majority … or in the case of aboriginal people in this town by the majority against the minority … surely we’ve got better things to worry about …
… like Jack, for instance … I’ve heard that he enjoys his trips … a lot of us don’t get out of town much so it’s hard to know what we’re missing … I hope that his expense claims are being scrutinized to ensure that the city is paying for a single room, one of everything and definitely no mini bar or pay per view items …
remember the quote “we want to be a part of Canada not apart from Canada”
For sure … though I don’t recall anybody talking about secession from the Confederation … Let’s also remember …
27. This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians. (Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms)
… our willingness to accommodate diversity makes us different from many unhappy, conflict ridden countries … and also I think … though it sounds terribly un-Canadian to say this … better.
I would like to echo BTravenn.
The opposite of the All Native is not an All White. This is not race based. The event is the celebration of/for a unique culture that in this region forms a huge percentage of the population. For the smaller communities they represent, virtually 100% of the population is first nations.
Non-natives are free to participate in all aspects of the celebration except playing in the basketball tournament. I guess that’s the controversy. But we also have the Special Olympics that limits based on disability and the Police and Fire Games that limits based on occupation. Limiting participation is not unusual.
As I said earlier, groups are free to organize tournaments based on nationality. I just don’t think they would work in this region.
One last point and again echoing BTravenn. Canada is a unique country. There are countries with two founding nationalities and languages. There are countries with large aboriginal populations. And there are countries where immigrants are welcomed.
Canada alone has all three. And for the most part, we get along.
If the Rec Centre was rented by a religious organization, and that group only allowed those of their faith to participate, would you call that bigoted?
While you might have problems with the City giving them a $5,000 grant, if it kept them coming to this city, it might also be considered.
Well said DWhite & BTravern! 
Perhaps you may wish to take a look at european cultures and cuisines and reconsider your views even though they were hopefully meant to be humorous.
Indeed Bubbasteve’s point is spot on. The US has had a long history of attempting to make up for it’s racist past and the use of affirmative action to correct historical wrongs. However, this has resulted in reverse discrimination and in the words of their Chief Justice John Roberts
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.‘’
IMHO, Demanding a lesser standard from any any group that wishes to use public facilities is in itself an extension of the same paternalism that has so plagued the relationships between the First Nations and Canada. Holding native groups that wish to use public facilites to a lesser standard is as wrong as as the type of discrimination that led to residential schools and all of the other past offences committed against native communities. If we indeed wish to treat First Nations peoples as equals, then we should be able to demand the same high standard from them as we demand of all other Canadian citizens.
Strip away all of the economic arguments and historical wrongs and at the heart of this matter is that we as taxpayers are supporting a sporting event that restricts participation based on race. That my friends is racist.
While we can not change history, the stands we take and the things we accept today are making future history. Frankly two wrongs don’t make a right and to stand by and silently accept discrimination of any form is simply wrong.
The answer is yes, racism no matter who practices it is offensive. Supporting racist events with taxpayer dollars and facilities is simply wrong and makes us all complicit in accepting racism. As for better things to worry about, equality is one of the basic values of Canadian Democracy and should be one of the things that concern all Canadian Citizens.
So I wonder if such festivals as:
Toronto’s Caribana
caribana.com/
Festival du Voyageur
festivalvoyageur.mb.ca/wp/festiv … yageur-fr/
Surrey’s Annual Vaisakhi Parade
tourismsurrey.com/index.php?id=452
Vancouver’s Asian Heritage Festival
explorasian.org/
Or the Icelandic Festival of Manitoba
icelandicfestival.com/
All cause as much angst in those communities, as this event seems to provide for some here.
All of the above no doubt receive funding from various governments, all seem designed to celebrate the culture of a specific group and all are open for the public to come and enjoy.
Each brings many diverse groups together to enjoy the event and no doubt provide much in the way of valuable tourism returns.
I understand that some don’t particularly enjoy the tournament under discussion, so stay home, no one is forcing anyone to go take it in.
The civic center rental rebate should be looked at it for what it is, an investment in the community, for which more than a few local businesses seem to enjoy a rather nice return.
Considering some of the money that the city wastes in so many other places, putting the money into this one actually makes sense .
Thanks Darcy… I took a quick look at some of those links and even though none of those were sporting events I noticed the invitation on many to all segments of the community to participate. So any angst involved may be due to racist attitudes against the cultures that are being celebrated rather than an attempt by those cultures to exclude others from participating in a celebration of their culture.
To be clear, I’ve not said that the First Nations should not celebrate and share their culture but an inclusive rather than exclusive fashion would be appreciated particularily when they demand public funding and use of public facilities. Lets not forget that the centerpiece of this event is a Canadian sport. Embuing this with cultural or religious significance is a bit of a stretch.
Racism is wrong no matter how much money is involved.