'Four Mounties slain in Alberta during raid'

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It really saddens me that people are using this event to push political agendas, even before the people involved have been buried.

But that being said, this wasn’t a “drug raid” – it was a stolen property raid. This was a car theft case.

The police officers who showed up just as the shooting started (and probably shot the guy) were not drug squad guys, apparently, they were the car theft specialists.

But nobody’s on the TV complaining that all these cars are too easy to steal. Nobody’s blaming Ford or GM for making a product that led to the deaths of these police officers.

The guy was a criminal, period. Don’t make him into some bizarre drug legalization martyr. Al Capone isn’t seen as some social liberalization hero, is he? No. He was a criminal too.

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[quote=“MiG”]It really saddens me that people are using this event to push political agendas, even before the people involved have been buried.

But that being said, this wasn’t a “drug raid” – it was a stolen property raid. This was a car theft case.

The police officers who showed up just as the shooting started (and probably shot the guy) were not drug squad guys, apparently, they were the car theft specialists.

[/quote]

haha and since WHEN has a htmf thread EVER stayed on topic, oh wait I should rephrase that otherwise I’m sure some htmf psycho will spend hours looking for a thread that actaully HAS stayed on one topic.

From what i’ve been reading and hearing on the radio and on the news is that they were investigating a marijuana grow op.

Don’t try to imply that I don’t have respect for the officers who lost their lives. I utterly respect all RCMP officers, and one day hope to become one.

Perhaps by pushing our politcal agendas the system may change, and tragedies such as this can be avoided.

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I was talking about the TV news coverage, ngillis, not you.

You’re right, they are all referring to it as a drug raid gone bad, when it wasn’t.

My post had nothing to do with yours at all.

That’s exactly my point. They were investigating a stolen car.

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Canada really needs to crack down on prisoners.

Did you know that sometimes, before or during a prison stay, criminals can chose to go to a canadian prison, or an american prison. When american prisoners are given this choice most of them choose a canadian prison. Why? Because it a murderer is given, lets say 12 years of jail time, and have to serve their time in the states, they wont get out until 8 years has past, a little earlier in some cases. In Canada, however, the same murderer, with the same sentence, would be out in 4 years, 3 with good behavior.
Unbelievable.
I believe that the next generation of polititians, cops, judges, will be much harder on criminals.

Like i said earlier. There are times when the death penalty would be a welcome thing.

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[quote=“brian_177”]Unbelievable.
I believe that the next generation of polititians, cops, judges, will be much harder on criminals.

Like i said earlier. There are times when the death penalty would be a welcome thing.[/quote]

It’s called “fear-based voting” and is a common technique.

You’re totally, absolutely 100% wrong on the sentence thing, but don’t let facts stop your tirade.

Violent crime is decreasing in Canada. The murder rate is decreasing in Canada (all time low, it seems). But don’t let those facts stop you from spreading the fear. If you want Canada to be more like the Excited States of America, I guess we have to have their fear-based voting system instead of our democracy.

As for the death penalty, every jurisdiction on this planet that has eliminated the death penalty has seen a drop in violent crime and murder rates. Canada included. But don’t let those facts stop you. Legitimizing violence as a means to solve a problem, including state-sponsored violence like we have below the border, actually increases crime.

But it does work well for spreading fear and unease.

So keep up the good work. The “law-and-order” candidates would be proud.

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mmmm. fear works much better than reasoning…

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[quote=“MiG”]

It’s called “fear-based voting” and is a common technique.

You’re totally, absolutely 100% wrong on the sentence thing, but don’t let facts stop your tirade.

Violent crime is decreasing in Canada. The murder rate is decreasing in Canada (all time low, it seems). But don’t let those facts stop you from spreading the fear. If you want Canada to be more like the Excited States of America, I guess we have to have their fear-based voting system instead of our democracy.

As for the death penalty, every jurisdiction on this planet that has eliminated the death penalty has seen a drop in violent crime and murder rates. Canada included. But don’t let those facts stop you. Legitimizing violence as a means to solve a problem, including state-sponsored violence like we have below the border, actually increases crime.

But it does work well for spreading fear and unease.

So keep up the good work. The “law-and-order” candidates would be proud.[/quote]

So, what your saying is that the killings in canada would be worse off if say, the man with the pigfarm who killed all those women in vancouver and then chopped their bodies up with a wood chip maker thing…??

When people diserve to die, they should die. If a member of your family was brutally murdered, would you be saying the same thing… “no, i forgive him, after all, if we kill him the death rate will go up”?? No what you would say is “Kill him”

As for the death penalty spreading fear and unease. The only people who should be afraid of the death penalty are people who might face it. If the death penalty scares you, go to a shrink, because its obvious that you think you might just, you know, if you’ve had a bad day, rape, murder, chop up, shoot, kill someone.
If killing a murderer is the wrong thing to do, in this case, 2 wrongs do make a right.

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I used to be a hardcore fan of the death penalty, after all… if someone takes a life they deserve to lose theirs, right? That way we would free up space in the prisons for more stupid people who break the law.

But now, I believe someone should be kept incarcerated, as long as possible. Life in prison, should actually be LIFE in prison, none of this “yeah it’s life but I’ll be out in 20 years.” People should be held accountable for their actions, and killing that person, would just be the easy way out.

To many criminals, the death penalty isn’t something they think twice about before they commit their crime. I think it would be more of a threat for someone to actually spend their WHOLE sentenced time in jail, instead of getting time off for good behaviour. It wasn’t their good behaviour that got them into jail in the first place, so why should they get time off because they started acting good now?

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*edit

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It’s a proven fact that juries are more likely to convict a murderer if the penalty is not death.

It costs more to put someone to death. The argument that a bullet only costs 2 cents is bogus. Unless we want complete mayhem, society has to allow the accused to defend himself so as to avoid convicting an innocent person. The appeals of a convicted person cost 10s of millions of dollars over the years. But it is necessary in order to prevent wrongful death. To keep someone in jail for the rest of their life costs millions less.

It is a proven fact that innocent people get convicted of murder. Canada has had many cases recently where the person has been found to be innocent years later. If we had sent those people to death there would be no way to bring them back to life.

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Also we shouldn’t just knee jerk and send everyone to jail forever. America right now is suffering a huge influx of ex cons that were crammed into jail years ago. In jail they learned how to be better criminals. A report was released like 20 years ago saying that there was no way to rehabilitate criminals. America responded by sending everyone to jail and basically giving up on them. That report has proven to be flawed and is no longer considered to be correct. Yet Americans still cram more and more people into jails. Penitentiaries were developed in order to “fixâ€

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No, the media scares you, apparently.

Crime isn’t on the rise, we don’t need any drastic actions, we don’t need the death penalty to deal with a new rash of murders or something like that.

Again, every jurisdiction that legitimizes violence (including the death penalty) as seen a rise in violent crime since the 1970s or so. The jurisdictions (including Canada), that have eliminated the death penalty, have seen a drop in violent crime.

If your reasoning for having the death penalty is that it will reduce crime, then you’re just plain wrong. In every single case, it’s actually been associated with an increase in the violent crime rate.

You have no grasp of logic or reality, though, so these facts are wasted on you.

You’re falling victim to the politics of fear. The quicker you realize that, the quicker you can start using logic instead of emotion to make your points.

34

The guy who killed everyone shot himself in the end (yay, spared us the expense of trial and incarceration), so how would the death penalty deter someone who was going to kill himself anyway? If the death penalty was a deterrent then the uncivilized countries that still have it would be safer than the ones without, but they don’t. It’s the opposite.

So if it’s not about grow-ops and not about deterrence, what’s it about? Could it be about our extremely expensive and intrusive gun control laws failing miserably? I mean isn’t this the gun law’s raison d’etre: to keep weapons out of the hands of those known to be dangerous? Or is less altruistic, to make sure those guns are tracked and the GST and licence fees collected over and over, just like Hydro’s merry pocketing the $12,000 cash bill payments from those nasty evil grow ops?

A sad day for Gut Issue beleivers. Randy White has announced he won’t run next election. Someone else will have to single-handedly kibosh the Tories chances next time…

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I think anyone believing in the death penalty should try to objectively evaluate the taking of human life by a society, in a premeditated, and righteous manner.

If you can rationalize that to yuorself, congratulations, you suck.

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[quote]Did you know that sometimes, before or during a prison stay, criminals can chose to go to a canadian prison, or an american prison. When american prisoners are given this choice most of them choose a canadian prison. Why? Because it a murderer is given, lets say 12 years of jail time, and have to serve their time in the states, they wont get out until 8 years has past, a little earlier in some cases. In Canada, however, the same murderer, with the same sentence, would be out in 4 years, 3 with good behavior.
Unbelievable.
[/quote]

Are you saying we have some sort of free trade on prisoners?

Mike

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I think he’s trying to be as big a conservative jackass as he can so I will regret my ‘voting age at 16’ thread.