My position on the Northern Gateway Pipeline has switched a few times and I’m back to being pro-pipeline. With this project the benefits are guaranteed while the risks are maybes and a large spill has a low probability of occurring. Also, the project only has a 30 year life expectancy so I find it unlikely that something catastrophic would occur with the required safety measures, new construction and modern technology. My guess is that in 50 years our environment will be as pristine as it is today, and we will have been able to have reaped the benefits that exporting this commodity could provide.
Even more so if we move to Alberta.
[quote=“Jabber63”]but if something does happen then you make sure you can clean it up as soon as possible.
[/quote]
This is precisely what I am worried about. The oil companies function on profit and loss. Where is the profit in cleaning up a massive spill quickly? Who will force the oil company to clean up the spill? Cleaning up a spill is a dead loss for an oil company. What incentive do they have to act quickly?
As I mentioned preciously they are still finding oil in the environment after the Exxon Valdez.
I don’t think exporting oil to Asia is to fuel their electricity grid, it will more then likely be used to fuel their vechiles especially in China where their car sales are climbing big time. LNG is for their electricity grid
Reading some comments here and in the Northern View you would think a catastophic oil spill was a forgone conclusion.
Fear mongering and NIMBYism is alive and well.
[quote=“crazy Horse”]Reading some comments here and in the Northern View you would think a catastophic oil spill was a forgone conclusion.
Fear mongering and NIMBYism is alive and well.[/quote]
I note that you did not answer any of my questions. I suspect your perspective is shared by the Federal government.
[quote=“hitest”]
I note that you did not answer any of my questions. I suspect your perspective is shared by the Federal government.[/quote]
Edited**
On second thought, there is no sense turning this into an argument. Pro’s and con’s be damned. It is Christmas, and I’ll leave that for another time.
Cheers!
Perhaps you should read more about the Keystone XL pipeline, and its problems over the last decade, with spills and their aftermath. Many spills and cleanups which often were only covered over. Out of sight; out of mind. This is the same company that is behind Enbridge. Some of these spill sights still haven’t been cleaned up properly.
In the end it will just cost us more for our own oil because the asian market will only drive up the price.
And why are we supplying materials which will only create more demand and more pollution, and increase the population needing this energy?
The push for profits will kill us all.
[quote=“crazy Horse”] It is Christmas, and I’ll leave that for another time.
Cheers![/quote]
Merry Christmas, Crazy Horse! 
[quote=“BTravenn”]
Even more so if we move to Alberta.[/quote]
"Northern Gateway will generate $1.2 billion in tax revenue for British Columbia and $4.3 billion in labour-related income over the next 30 years. Over the same time period, the project will contribute $270 billion to Canada’s Gross Domestic Product.
With a capital cost of $6.5 billion, Northern Gateway will create over 3,000 construction jobs and 560 long-term jobs here in B.C. The $32 million per year earned will benefit individual families and communities. Property tax revenues will increase by $36 million annually.
First Nations and Métis communities were offered equity agreements giving them a 10% stake in the pipeline. In addition, $300 million in estimated employment and contracts adds up to $1 billion in total long-term benefits for Aboriginal communities and businesses."
- See more at: gatewayfacts.ca/benefits/ben … veFo9.dpuf
There can’t be any doubt that Alberta would gain most of the benefits and BC most of the risks. Those tax revenue numbers are spread over 30 years; also factor in time value of money, which further reduces the numbers.
There are also trade offs with other industries: “Come to Beautiful British Columbia and see out majestic mountains, take a cruise along the Inside Passage and visit our world class tar export facility”.
Anyway … the following caught my particular attention.
[quote=“Crazy Train”]
First Nations and Métis communities were offered equity agreements giving them a 10% stake in the pipeline. In addition, $300 million in estimated employment and contracts adds up to $1 billion in total long-term benefits for Aboriginal communities and businesses."
- See more at: gatewayfacts.ca/benefits/ben … veFo9.dpuf[/quote]
First Nation and Metis communities “were” offered equity agreements, but how many have accepted those offers of cash and other benefits? I have not heard anything on that for a long while.
So I started searching through the gatewayfacts site, found this page which says that “First Nations and Metis partnership is at the very heart of the Northern Gateway Project” < gatewayfacts.ca/benefits/first-nations/ >.
It is vague, so looking for more I clicked the “Expert perspectives” links entitled “Aboriginal Benefits”, “Aboriginal Communities to be Big Beneficiaries of Pipeline”, and “Environmental protection and market diversification”. I would encourage all those who are interested in Northern Gateway, whether pro or con, to check them out:
gatewayfacts.ca/page-not-found/
vancouversun.com/life/Aborig … story.html
fnbc.info/trade-and-environmenta … an-control
Maybe I’m cynical, but making First Nations part owners of the pipeline is a really crappy offer. Then they’ll be partly on the hook for any cleanups.
Conservative logic. Canada can’t do anything to fight global warming because China is polluting so much…so lets pollute more here and then give them the means to increase their pollution too!!! Let BC take all the risk, Those northern Indians never vote conservative anyways. If Scientists say anything well gut there funding and muzzle em!
To quote a poster from another board - Tax revenue … $1.2B over 30 years … cost of major spill $2.5B - $9.5B … is there something wrong with my math skills or is something not adding up, let me see if I’m correct
Best case scenario we lose $1.3B worst case we lose $8.3B … for just one spill … I’m trying to find a win in there somewhere
Yeah that argument pisses me off too.
If there’s anyone out there thick enough to not know we all live on a little blue marble… well arguing that they shouldn’t pee in the pool because China peed in the pool makes sense to them.
To me this seems like paying Russian roulette for money. Maybe nothing does happen, but if it does( and given Enbridges record there is a pretty good chance) it ain’t going to be good.
The “win” is jobs, and a robust national economy based on natural resources. Like it or not, it pays for your your health, education, protection, and your standard of living that is amongst the best in the world. It’s easy to sit at your computer and type out criticisms, but until someone comes up with a more “acceptable” way to pay the bills, this is the best option.
[quote=“crazy Horse”]
The “win” is jobs, and a robust national economy based on natural resources. Like it or not, it pays for your your health, education, protection, and your standard of living that is amongst the best in the world. It’s easy to sit at your computer and type out criticisms, but until someone comes up with a more “acceptable” way to pay the bills, this is the best option.[/quote]
what fucking jobs? sure theres jobs building the fucking thing but after that? not so much. I guess oil spill clean up jobs will be plentiful.
[quote=“crazy Horse”]
The “win” is jobs, and a robust national economy based on natural resources. Like it or not, it pays for your your health, education, protection, and your standard of living that is amongst the best in the world. It’s easy to sit at your computer and type out criticisms, but until someone comes up with a more “acceptable” way to pay the bills, this is the best option.[/quote]
Canada is no longer in the top 10 places to live, when under the Libs we were #1 for ages. I criticize far beyond my computer screen believe me. I also have worked as a faller/bucker and in the blasting industry and would stand to make lots of money if this goes through. But I don’t want to tell kids one day that I thought making money now, was more important then insuring the well being of future generations. Canada is a great nation, but it’s hard for “someone to come up with a more “acceptable” way to pay the bills” when the government is owned by the oil industry who are dead against any alternatives. If you can’t listen to scientists, who can you listen too? I am not against the oil industry either. I am for RESPONSIBLE DEVELOPMENT. People have to get to work. We don’t need to dump all our finite resources off to china as fast as possible, and we don’t need endless expansion.
Well, let’s hear some alternatives then. What else can we export that will provide the same level of direct jobs, secondary jobs, tax income, and growth for your pension and investment plans.
So easy to slam the industry, but I don’t hear anybody offering up a better alternative. Or is it really just NIMBY?
Well beetle kill lumber is one demand that is high in Asia. I also believe that a place like Rupert with unlimited fresh water falling out of the sky should look at possible piping some of that down south. What would be the worst that could happen if water leaked. There are tons of things. why do we not put wind mills out to sea. Canada was once one of the worlds leading developers of future tech. The thing is nothing is really being considered by a government that is totally in bed with the oil industry other then endless expansion and the gutting of social programs and public ministries that protect Canadians. To put this in perspective. I propose that if its ok to pipe bitumen and have all the risks of endless expansion in Alberta come to our backyard here in Northern BC, then try telling conservative people in the Okanagan that they should mine uranium!!! It would create jobs and revenue. There is no proof that there will be an accident. It’s all over the Okanagan!! But of course no one wants that development because it is dumb and dangerous.
We can■t solve these problems if the government is not even willing to discuss them.