Does MLA Rice oppose LNG?

In a recent speech from her back row seat in the Legislature our local MLA Jennifer Rice set out some concerns about LNG development that raise doubts as to whether she supports such projects on the North Coast.

Many Prince Rupert citizens look to LNG development as a chance to move on from a fairly dismal economic history characterized by population loss, high property taxes, budgetary problems and service reductions, while civic workers struggle to patch up aging infrastructure. As alluded to in another thread, some of us ponder whether Rupert is otherwise sliding towards a Detroit-like future, which would be very grim indeed.

North Coast Review has dedicated an article to her speech and includes a couple of lengthy quotes transcribed from the audio recording which deserve close scrutiny, at least to try to make sense of what she is saying:

“In Australia three LNG plants were constructed by three different companies right beside each other. This has proven inefficient. Here in B.C. it appears we, too, similarly are going down this path. If we truly believe in sustainable natural resource development, we need to examine cumulative impacts of multiple developments. Land and marine use planning is critical to managing the sustainability of resources. That also means considering ecosystem and social values and not just gross domestic product values.”

Okay, so what is the issue here? Would following the Aussie example be ill-advised because three LNG plants would be too many or is it just that they should not be built side by side? How are either or both scenarios “inefficient”? Would it be better to build plants far apart or would it be best not to build them at all?

Whatever is done requires land and marine use planning, and there are laws in place to address that, including environmental legislation that was put in place when the NDP was in government.

She also seems to have deeper and more philosophical concerns about considering “social values and not just gross domestic product”. What are those ‘social values’ that should not be traded off for a better GNP?

For a community that has taken some hard knocks in recent years, economic opportunities that can support better lifestyles, including for kids who otherwise hang around downtown spitting on the sidewalks, would seem to further at least some social objectives. The same can be said about having a stronger tax base to support improvements to community programs and facilities.

Is there something on the other side of the social ledger that we would be giving up if LNG proceeds, that MLA Rice feels should not be traded off for a better economy? What might that be?

Perhaps for now we can only wonder what she might be driving at. In view of the prominence that the Clark government has given to LNG, no doubt much more remains to be said.

The other quote that captures some of our MLA’s thoughts concerns the role of first nations in LNG discussions:

“Governments have apologized for the ways in which they have treated aboriginal peoples over times past, yet we continuously invite First Nations to participate in the very system we apologized for, one that stole their land and removed their rights. For surrendering forests for pipelines, lakes for tailing ponds and sacred headwaters for gas exploration, we offer in exchange a few dollars and what those in the developed world yield as a given right, such as quality education, good health care and decent housing. While we apologize for a system that has stripped First Nations of their natural resources and culture, we continuously invite them back into the same system.”

Some poetic licence is being taken here. Canada rightly apologized for the residential schools, not for our entire economic and political system.

The statement about ‘surrendering’ forests, lakes and sacred headwaters is particularly ironic. Aboriginal leaders consistently say that first nations have not surrendered anything in BC. Our Constitution recognizes aboriginal and treaty rights as a basis for accommodating both first nation rights and the economic development goals of government. Even the outdated Indian Act no longer talks about surrendering lands.

Local first nations have cut deals with the Port and Ridley Terminals, are involved in the proposed purchase of Watson Island, and brought TFL #1 back into production after New Skeena’s hype and failed efforts.

While we do not know the details and fine points, it seems pretty safe to say that local first nations have a pretty good handle on how to deal with resource developers and other proponents.

On more specific questions around LNG development, our MLA’s warnings against inviting first nations back into the ‘system’ that we supposedly apologized for stand in contrast to more practical advice from our MP.

At a recent City council meeting Nathan Cullen suggested in response to civic concerns about the City being overwhelmed by LNG proposals that it would be a helpful to join in with area First Nations. The latter appear to be more knowledgeable and ahead of the curve it seems.
northcoastreview.blogspot.ca/201 … nergy.html

During the election Premier Clark held out LNG as a kind of economic salvation for the province, while the NDP offered some stuttering comments about how they are not opposed so long as development is done ‘responsibly’.

Of course, everyone is in favour of doing everything responsibly, but now that the election is behind us, while not taking a clear position, it seems that on balance and taken overall our MLA really seems to be opposed to LNG. What else can we take from comments about LNG being ‘inefficient’, counter to ‘social values’ and being associated with a ‘system’ that we apologized for (but haven’t)?

Here’s the full article: < northcoastreview.blogspot.ca/201 … ng-in.html >.

She is ABSOLUTELY against LNG development…this is why I did not vote for her…she is an environmentalist, who ran for a party that would gurantee her a victory and a seat in Victoria for her to further her own selfish environmental agenda.

She is not the voice for the North Coast, she doesn’t know WTF she is talking about half the time and this most recent speech proves it.

Her performance as a city councilor was laughable at best.

Our NDP representatives, both federally and provincially, have shown to be anti-development. I read an article today about the aftermath of the provincial election which stated that “the NDP needs to re-examine its brand in B.C.” They don’t seem to have a distinct identity anymore.

timescolonist.com/cmlink/gmg … -1.560395/

They used to be a party that was built on labour but its seemingly turned to environmentalism. Even locally that shows. A local environmentalist, Jen Rice, was chosen to represent instead of a highly regarded labour leader, Joanna Larson. The values of these two, labour and environmentalism do seen to conflict, especially in an area whose economy is dependent upon natural resource development. This is what confuses me so much about our riding and its voters. We all want lower taxes and talk about the big boom that may or may not come, but then when given the chance we overwhelmingly support this environmentalist rather than the party that is supporting the exact resource that we depend on to get out of this extreme rut we’re in. It doesn’t make any sense to me that we choose people to represent us that will do whatever they can to slow down the resource development and economic growth we so badly need.

I became a member of the BC NDP to support Joanna in her bid to be our NDP MLA. As things stand now I will let my membership lapse.

I can’t see any good coming out of Ms Rice’s “us vs. them” mentality when it comes to current talks between goverment/developers and First Nations–surely cooperation is the best policy. It also seems a little insulting that she seems to be suggesting that local First Nations don’t have the wherewithal to negotiate with developers to come to a beneficial agreement but rather are being taken advantage of a la residential schools and selling the island of Manhattan for $24.

there is a reason why the labor vote abandoned the NDP the last election, their stance on resource development, they did claim they were in favor of LNG development but they would do a review on fracking to see if it is enviromentally sound, ie not a chance in getting approved. As I stated in previous posts, during an enbridge protest in prince rupert, our MLA Rice was recorded on CBC radio during an interview that she was opposed to LNG Development for we would be increasing GHG’s, during the election she spouted the same tune as the NDP, but now that they are not in power, basically rudderless until they get a new leader, yes Dix is a dead man walking, she can basically be herself and show her true feeling to LNG

I really don’t care what Jennifer or the NDP have to say. I am more interested in what the Liberals have to say. They are the government for the next 4+ years.

They have made great promises about debt and deficit and LNG and prosperity funds and jobs and whatevers.

They NDP is essentially irrelevant especially while they figure out their future, so let’s pay attention to what the government - you know the party that actually has the power to do something - does with BC Hydro, BC Ferries, LNG projects, the health system, the education system, child poverty and all those other things that need fixing.

If the Liberals can give us all that they have promised then we are good to go. For all I care they can stay in power until I am poured into the urn. The only people that should care about the NDP are those that have that queasy feeling that the Liberals are really not all that better and are actually more concerned about selling us out to their corporate friends. And I am totally convinced that that ain’t so. No sirree. Nope.

My only concern is that those elected to represent us are actually working in our best interest. I said it in previous discussions how I was concerned that our electorate was so disenchanted with the Gordon Campbell government and some of what transpired under his watch that they lost sight of what was actually better for our riding. It shows in Ms Rices comments that she may not be working in our best interest. Will it really matter what she says in the long run? Maybe, maybe not. But she is the representative of the people here and it doesn’t appear that she is going to be of any help in stabilizing our economy.

[quote=“DWhite”]I really don’t care what Jennifer or the NDP have to say. I am more interested in what the Liberals have to say. They are the government for the next 4+ years.

They NDP is essentially irrelevant especially while they figure out their future, so let’s pay attention to what the government - you know the party that actually has the power to do something …
[/quote]

The opposition is always relevant in our parliamentary system, as Gordo’s resignation and the Liberal about face on HST illustrate, notwithstanding their majority government (admittedly much of that opposition came from outside of the legislature, from the discredited Zalm and others seeking to discredit the Liberals in an ultimately unsuccessful bid to revive the provincial conservatives).

I don’t think that politicians should be held to everything that they say - what once made sense may not if circumstances change - but we should be able to expect an honest and forthright explanation if they change their mind. It is looking like MLA Rice is no longer sticking to the NDP’s campaign script and that she is now openly opposed to LNG development.

Of course the opposition has an important role. And the NDP are damned good at it. So good in fact that we keep re-electing them.

I listened to Jennifer’s speech. She did what opposition members are supposed to do. She warned about over zealous development. She emphasized sustainability. She encouraged long term planning. She mentioned climate change. If that makes her anti-LNG then I don’t have the energy to argue.

But so what? She is a bit player. All you people on here that questioned her ability as a councilor are now turning her into some great LNG dragon slayer who by merely opening her mouth will shut down the entire economic recovery of Prince Rupert.

Stop fretting. Riches galore comin’ our way. Christy said so. 75,000 jobs. Billions in tax revenue. Debt free. Prosperity fund. No sales tax.

Let the NDP ramble on, digging up scandals, complaining about liars and corporate friends, worrying about the bankruptcy of BC Hydro, the selling off of our resources, the crisis in health and education.

Ears plugged. Not lithening.

Christy and her buds have the power and I wait for them to use it wisely.

"Australia is well-positioned as demand for natural gas will only grow. "

Growing pains? Yes! Inefficient? Not so sure!

m.smh.com.au/business/too-much-t … 23kit.html

“The problem is that Australia faces extreme labour shortages, driving wages sky-high and this has led overall project costs to spiral.”

ampi.org.au/News/tabid/417/E … n-LNG.aspx

I can only speak for myself, but when I spoke about Rice as a councillor it was about effectiveness, not ability. Specifically, that one can’t be an effective councillor without committing time to council meetings and business.

In her new job as an MLA I still worry about her effectiveness. You are right, her job in opposition is to oppose, but I can’t see the connection between this LNG speech and northern and rural health (or with children and family development.) Above and beyond those specific roles as a critic, surely her number one job is to be a Rupert booster.

You’re right. She isn’t very relevant, and she won’t likely be ‘some great LNG dragon slayer.’ But in this case ‘by merely opening her mouth’ and saying the things she has, she certainly won’t be a boon to the projects either.

““Governments have apologized for the ways in which they have treated aboriginal peoples over times past, yet we continuously invite First Nations to participate in the very system we apologized for, one that stole their land and removed their rights.”

This confuses me. What is she trying to say here and what does she intend to gain? Do we want to exclude First Nations? Do we need to hand over the keys to the car and go back to our ancestors homeland and beg for them to accept us back? We’ve all inherited the country we live in and the land was “stolen” before any of us or our grandparents were born. Can’t we just get past what happened generations ago and move on?

[quote=“Crazy Train”]"“Governments have apologized for the ways in which they have treated aboriginal peoples over times past, yet we continuously invite First Nations to participate in the very system we apologized for, one that stole their land and removed their rights."

This confuses me. What is she trying to say here and what does she intend to gain? Do we want to exclude First Nations? Do we need to hand over the keys to the car and go back to our ancestors homeland and beg for them to accept us back? We’ve all inherited the country we live in and the land was “stolen” before any of us or our grandparents were born. Can’t we just get past what happened generations ago and move on?[/quote]

I said above that she seems to be suggesting that local First Nations aren’t capable of negotiating with developers to an end that is beneficial to First Nations. I don’t think that’s how she intends it, however. I think she’s using the feigned care about First Nations’ tradition territory as a vehicle for her own worry about LNG and the environment. I could be wrong, but in that case I assume that Ms Rice will support First Nations when they reach an agreement with LNG developers over use of their territory.

[quote=“Crazy Train”]"“Governments have apologized for the ways in which they have treated aboriginal peoples over times past, yet we continuously invite First Nations to participate in the very system we apologized for, one that stole their land and removed their rights."

This confuses me. What is she trying to say here and what does she intend to gain? …[/quote]

That is a confusing statement, but I would not give it any credence. She is standing on her own soapbox.

I think that we can be confident that as discussions with LNG proponents proceed local first nations will speak for themselves and more coherently than MLA Rice has on this occasion.

I want to clarify one thing. When I said that Jennifer was a bit player I was referring only to her stance on LNG. I have no doubt that Jennifer will be a strong advocate for the people of the North Coast.

I have watched Jennifer twice in the Legislature. She was very effective in Question Period when she asked when/if the government would be fulfilling the recommendation from the Missing Women Inquiry to improve transportation along the Highway of Tears. She was also very effective (even while praising the government for added services in Prince George) in detailing the difficulties that cancer patients from Rupert and Haida Gwaii have when seeking services outside their community.

If you go to the links in this article northcoastreview.blogspot.ca/201 … ealth.html, you can read a lengthy, respectful exchange between Jennifer and Health Minister Terry Lake. Having seen Terry Lake in Question Period, I actually have some hope that he, being from Kamloops, will have a better understanding of problems facing northern communities and that Jennifer can work with him to improve services in our region.

I also had no difficulty with her speech on resource development when she outlined some of the concerns there may be with LNG. Sometimes we need to step back from the hoopla.

I am not sure if that makes her as anti-LNG as some of you have painted her, but even if she is, she has minor role, a tiny voice compared to the city of Prince Rupert, the village of Port Edward, the Port Corporation, the Chamber of Commerce, local and regional First Nations, her own party, Big Oil, and especially the provincial government.

Now we can continue to scrutinize what Jennifer Rice has to say about LNG and fuss over what she might have meant by this phrase or that phrase. Personally, I am more concerned about what the government plans to do about some of the issues that are raised and how they plan to follow through on the Jobs Plan and the Debt Free promises they have made.

And I expect Jennifer to continue to be a major player, a strong advocate for our region.

Advocate:

noun

  1. a person who speaks or writes in support or defense of a person, cause, etc. (usually followed by of): an advocate of peace.

An advocate for our region. Serious question. What is she advocating?

I don’t see her as an advocate for industrial development. What do you expect for her to be an advocate of?

[quote=“Crazy Train”]Advocate:

noun

  1. a person who speaks or writes in support or defense of a person, cause, etc. (usually followed by of): an advocate of peace.

An advocate for our region. Serious question. What is she advocating?

I don’t see her as an advocate for industrial development. What do you expect for her to be an advocate of?[/quote]

I just think she has done a pretty good job in her first couple of weeks as a rookie MLA. I mentioned her raising the issue of transportation along the Highway of Tears and the difficulties of cancer patients in our region going for treatment outside the community. From the NorthcoastReview article, Jennifer said

Is this anti-development or just being prepared. I don’t know and I really don’t care. There is no shortage of LNG boosters in this town and the government to make it happen regardless of what Jennifer might think. But I also think it’s important for someone out there to be asking what the effects of an influx of 3000 temporary workers will have on our health services and other infrastructure and what can be done to alleviate any concerns.

What I find amusing and why I replied originally to this post is the undue attention (not just here but the msm as well) being paid to the NDP. What does Jennifer think? What will Dix do? How can the NDP revive itself. None of that matters. In our parliamentary system, we essentially have a dictatorship for the next four years. So the focus should be on what Christy thinks. What deJong will do. And how the Liberals will revive the province with its jobs plan and its promise to be debt free.

After the debacle of the last election I have resigned myself to living my final quarter century or so under a BC Liberal government. Either they will do all that they have promised and life will be good. Or, if not, if BC Hydro goes bankrupt, if we are sold out to corporate interests, if LNG is not the solution we had all hoped, well - we can just blame it on Jennifer Rice or Adrian Dix or fast ferries. Life is so much simpler.

Everyone is pinning a lot of hope on the LNG up there, I sure hope it goes ahead…

3000 temp workers though to me does not equal a boom … :smile:

does it matter if Jennifer Rice supports LNG? depends on the ppl that come here looking to buy. If your a chinese customer and take everything as a slight, and you set up a meeting with our representative, Ms. Rice, and basically she brings up the GHG issue and her stance not to really support it, what do you think their response would be? yes to us her stance on it is a moot point for the NDP are not in power, but to the ppl looking to set up and their customers, would her stance be an irritant to them or a slight to them?

and on the issue of GHG, what the enviromentalists don’t take into account is that GHG would be reduced in China when they switch coal burning electrical plants to LNG, yes our GHG in BC would go up but elsewhere in the world they should go down by shuttering coal burning plants.