Bush and third world country

Not countries. 

Again, most of the US debt is held by domestic banks, pension plans, individuals.  Perhaps 25% is held by foreign banks, not governments.

700 billion is a loan.  And, if the trend continues, only a fraction of that will come from foreign banks.  Most of it will come from domestic sources. 

It’s not like Japan will just write the US government a $ 700 billion cheque. 

What you should be asking is whether the average US citizen will be ok with taking on $2500 extra in government debt.  Not whether some bank will lend the US government the money – of course they will.  At these interest rates, it’s not a big deal, either.

Do you remember the interest rates of the 80s?  That’s when debt really meant something!

from Mark Bowen website

[quote]The National debt is approaching 9.4 Trillion dollars. The number is so large that most people can’t comprehend it. Broken down it amounts to 31 thousand dollars of debt for every man, woman, and child in this Nation. Reckless spending by the Administration and the Congress has left this country in a real crisis. We owe it to future generations to eliminate the National debt. There will have to be some hard choices in order to accomplish this goal.

Congress should never approve new spending unless they can pay for it. If they can’t pay for the spending program there can be no new program. Our current Congressman was recently asked by Morgan about the 750 million dollar embassy being built in Iraq. The embassy is the world’s largest embassy. It covers 105 acres and is still not operational. The excessive size and dysfunction of this complex is a prime example of government waste and mismanagement. Our congressman could only answer, “that’s how government works.â€[/quote]

Thanks MiG for clearing that Up

here is an interesting read.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … P_(nominal

Its still very concerning…And I would like to see how each precedent candidate will try and solve some of the problems? with out raising taxes to the middle class!!

If you can find it, the Documentary “Money Masters” is an excellent resource that can help explain how big, and how far back this mess goes.  The Reserve system and Wall Street, have been corrupt ever since they were started. 
I’m not surprised. 
It’s going to get worse.
Something wrong with the system when the average hedge fund manager in the US makes 500+ mill, the average CEO 25+ mill, and the average American, 25,000+.
That’s how revolutions start.

thanks and welcome to HTMF John Muhic

here is the video

This system rewards people who are bad at business (with a bailout) and punishes those who run sensible businesses. 

How about the Wall Street firms that stayed as far away from the sub-prime mess as possible?  They get punished by having to compete with government-owned companies.

It’s truly the anti-Robin Hood, where you have to steal from the poor to give to the rich.  You increase everybody’s debt to help cushion the blow on the rich, for their bad business decisions.

It’s not a free market economy.  They should let those firms fail, plain and simple.

Robert Cringely compares it to human intervention in old-growth Redwood forests.  If you leave them alone, the underbrush will naturally clear itself out with a big fire every few years, but the trees are big and can survive the fires, no problem.  But if you start fighting these brush fires, then the brush accumulates until there’s no chance in hell of fighting a fire, which will consume the entire forest.

pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008 … 05422.html

That’s exactly what’s happened here.  Being so obsessed with not having a recession, which is a normal part of a economic cycle, we’ve set the stage for a nice big ass depression instead.

agreed this a loose loose situation for the American people.

GYWO takes on the financial crisis:

You watch, JP Morgan Chase will come out on top.  They hosted the “secret” meeting on Hyde Island that started the Federal Reserve in the first place.  We are watching the creation of a Plutocracy, right before our very eyes.  This buyout of banks, has happened before.  The big boys are cleaning house and wiping out the middle class as we speak.  Have another “Pearl Harbour, 9/11”, blame it on Iran, draw off the poor to fill the Military, attack, drive up the price of oil, and bankers win again off of the misery of others.
Recessions and depressions are man made.
Isn’t Brian Mulroney drawing a paycheck from JP Morgan?  Free trade anyone?
War is a racket.
Isn’t recently Ret. Gen. Rick Hillier working for Toronto Dominion Bank now?
Ask hard questions…
This disaster could have been prevented,
no one is accounting for greed…

Go away, we’ve had enough of this Zeitgeist conspiracy stuff. The Amero is coming, apparently, thanks to all the corrupt business people, false flags, and the National Reserve. I seem to remember someone giving us a date, and I think Mig said we’d check back to see if we actually are using the Amero when that day comes around.

Nothing wrong with saying the bailout is wrong, for a whole bunch of reasons. 

But playing 6 Degrees of Separation doesn’t prove a global conspiracy.

I’m sorry, I made a mistake.  It was Jekyll Island, not Hyde, off the coast of Georgia, Nov. 22 1910. I must have been thinking of “Eccentrics” split personality.
This is not conspiracy, this is history, and we are doomed to repeat it.
“Eccentric”, you are a coward, and I have every right to talk.  I’m not hiding behind a pseudonym, and I’m not threatening Anna Ashley with ignorance.  I’ve read your posts and I am disgusted with your behaviour.  I for one, do not accept your apology for the way you’ve acted.
And unless you have somthing constructive to say or can produce something that is relevent to the thread, besides venom, back off.
Your becoming a troll.

U have to excess eccentric’s  bad behavior, he/she thinks his/her view is the only one that matters, as for a few of us here at HTMF we love the Zeitgeist conspiracy stuff, as with all conspiracy’s there is usually some facts in them…

bad bad eccentric go to your room… time out!!!

I’m sorry, I must have misunderstood you. Perhaps if you write it more clearly and provide some evidence I’ll pick up what you’re laying down.

As for “threatening Anna Ashley with ignorance”, I made one comment, which I apologized for. What behaviour are you disgusted with?

On the subject of pseudonyms, I have no idea who you are. Do you think because you put your first and last name down you’ve suddenly got some street cred? I’ve lived in PR all my life, and I’ve never heard of you. If you come onto an internet forum, don’t belittle people for using screen names–that’s one of the virtues of the internet. If I wanted to openly display who I was next to my opinions, I’d write letters to the editor. But I don’t. I’m content being partially anonymous (clever people probably have a good idea who I am, just like I have a pretty good idea who some of the other people are.) What does it matter to you that I don’t put down my name?

Like I said before, attacking someone’s anonymity is the equivilant of an ad hominem in my opinion.  It basically says that you can’t attack points, so you’ll attack the person instead. 

The right to anonymous speech is a cornerstone of democracy.

But you pretty much proved that your not below an ad hominem by using your second or third post on HTMF to call someone a coward.  Nice.

I don’t agree with eccentric at the best of times, but at least I try not to call him (or her?) names.  I (painfully) walk through the faults in his or her logic instead.

John, how about you drop the personal stuff and rise above it?

Yes.  Eccentric and I disagree politically, but, I support his/her right to express opinions here on HTMF (eccentric did apologize for past remarks).  Insulting another HTMF member serves no purpose, John Muhic.

I suspect that if people used their real names on the Internet it would temper their postings, and make it far less interesting.

I don’t agree very often with Eccentric, but I sure wouldn’t want to supress his opinions. And as an added bonus he seems to elicit many, many responses, and gets under the skin of more than a couple posters here. In that respect he is a catalyst for discussion, and actually helps opponents clarify and crystalize their viewpoints.

Anonymity on the Internet is a fact of life, which, I suspect, also makes it easier for people to launch ad hominem attacts.

Anonymity is a cornerstone of democracy.  You don’t have to like it, but remember how voting goes today – you had a secret ballot for a reason.

If all one has against someone is their anonymity, it’s basically an ad hominem in itself.  One wants to attack the person and not their ideas.

There was an interesting ballot in Greece in 1947. You were issued a red ballot and a blue ballot. If you supported the King, you put the blue ballot in the box. If you supported the commies, the red one.
Then outside the doors were Army trucks and British helpers. If you walked out with a blue ballot in your hand, they loaded you right in and took you away. If you argued, they shot you.
It didn’t take long for the rest of the line to vote out the Communists…