BC NDP trying to poach North Coast LNG investment?

[quote=“BTravenn”]

He is not saying that Rupert is a no; he is just pointing out that Rupert …

… is “done”, which is apparently something other than “no”.

I really don’t know what to make of Horgan and his statements. He is not a politician that I’ve paid any attention to. I would have thought that he would be a stronger communicator. My impression is that if doesn’t improve his communication skills by next election it will be the NDP that will be “done”.[/quote]

I am not even sure what we are discussing any more. People seem to be worried about John Horgan and what he has to say as if it makes any difference to the future of LNG in Prince Rupert or BC. It doesn’t. His comments are hardly controversial: BG is not likely to be in Rupert in the short term and very likely is “done”; there has been more hype than substance; and there is not likely to be the windfall that was promised by the Liberals. The comment about a moratorium on fracking could be controversial if we are unclear of the meaning of harmful. And the comment about Kitimat being a better location than Rupert whether true or not is controversial only to the people of Prince Rupert.

But I am not sure why we are worried about John Horgan. We should be worried about Christy Clark and her policies. If LNG is successful in BC, the Liberals will be in power for a very long time so Horgan and future NDP leaders are irrelevant. If it is not successful, then, sure, start worrying about John Horgan if you want. But just remember, it will be on the Liberals if LNG is unsuccessful over the next couple of years, not the NDP.

And by the way, please use my quotes in context. You took my Petronas comment and placed it beside Horgan’s BG comment. If you are disagreeing with my analysis fair enough, but using that juxtaposition isn’t fair to me because it makes it look like I was referring to BG not Petronas.

[quote=“DWhite”]
I am not even sure what we are discussing any more. People seem to be worried about John Horgan and what he has to say as if it makes any difference to the future of LNG in Prince Rupert or BC. **It doesn’t. **[/quote]

Agreed. Horgan has no say in the development of LNG.

[quote=“BTravenn”]If we can move past the word games, the BC Liberal caucus has responded with a media release entitled “Horgan Says No to Prince Rupert”. Here is a partial quote:

"NDP leader John Horgan dropped into Prince Rupert, donned a hard hat for a photo op – and an hour after leaving town, he said the community had no future.

“John Horgan talks a good game, claiming he supports LNG and then he takes every opportunity to dismiss and disparage ‎the industry,” says Nechako Lakes MLA John Rustad, who is also the minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation. “If you want to support economic growth, if you want to see more people working in the northwest, you don’t do it by rejecting the projects that are planned.

“That’s not leadership. That’s changing your tune depending where you are.”

‎Rustad was responding to comments the NDP leader made to a Terrace newspaper, belittling the two leading LNG projects for Prince Rupert.

“I think they’re done,” said Horgan of the BG Group’s project, Prince Rupert LNG, which would involve a facility capable of producing 21 million tonnes of LNG per year.

Then Horgan went on to call into question the Petronas project, also planned for Prince Rupert."

< governmentcaucus.bc.ca/blog/news … ce-rupert/ >.[/quote]

This is exactly what he did. He came here, toured our industrial sites, then scampered out of town and went 130KM east to tell people in Terrace that LNG has no shot in Rupert. Like I said before, WHY even come here? Where is Jennifer Rice during all of this?..crickets!

I don’t think he truly even knows what is going on in regards to true LNG development, but for him to so flippantly dismiss this industry in one of their STRONGEST and most supportive NDP ridings is quite shocking to me. Talk about pissing in the face of the people who support you.

Horgan and his No Direction Party losers can suck it…I hope Rupert voters remember his comments when it is time to decide if he should be our premier…I hope people remember which political party is actually WORKING for this riding’s economic development.

[quote=“hitest”]

[quote=“DWhite”]
I am not even sure what we are discussing any more. People seem to be worried about John Horgan and what he has to say as if it makes any difference to the future of LNG in Prince Rupert or BC. **It doesn’t. **[/quote]

Agreed. Horgan has no say in the development of LNG.[/quote]

And thank GOD for that! We would be a ghost town if that were the case!

[quote=“DWhite”]And the comment about Kitimat being a better location than Rupert whether true or not is controversial only to the people of Prince Rupert.

But I am not sure why we are worried about John Horgan. We should be worried about Christy Clark and her policies. If LNG is successful in BC, the Liberals will be in power for a very long time so Horgan and future NDP leaders are irrelevant. If it is not successful, then, sure, start worrying about John Horgan if you want.[/quote]

In my opinion, this is all about whether our elected representative and her party are in support of proposed economic development here. If Horgan’s comments are true and have been used in the correct context then I would consider our MLA guilty by association. Do we want someone representing us that does not support responsible resource development? It should be important to us in Prince Rupert just as an issue in another riding may be of interest to them.

Why worry about Christie Clark and her policies? I know what you’re getting at but you can’t spin this onto Christie Clark. Horgan made comments and it’s fair for us to discuss them without making this about the governing Liberals.

I think that Horgan’s comments do matter.

LNG will require enormous investments of capital, these are complex projects that are subject to lengthy and complicated regulatory reviews. The issue for government is more about creating a business environment that will encourage investment in LNG, but nothing will go ahead unless and until developers are ready to proceed, recognizing that they are operating in competitive international markets, in terms of supply, demand and abilities of different jurisdictions to provide stable and attractive places to build very expensive plants.

I don’t recall Christy Clark promising that everything will be in place by next election or setting specific revenue targets. There are too many unknowns and many key decisions that determine scheduling, levels of investment and hence potential revenues to the Province will be made by industry, not the government. The most that can be said is that LNG would generate a lot of new economic activity and resource revenue, but how much that might be and when exactly no one knows or can know at this point.

With that in mind, the NDP seems to be developing a strange, not very credible narrative, where they say they support LNG but that support seems lukewarm at best. They also seem eager to say Clark will not be able to keep so-called ‘promises’ that the NDP itself would not make, not least of all because there are too many unknowns for anyone to make specific promises.

Having one or more operational plants will take a few years at least and, if built, will outlive several governments. Investors have to be asking themselves, who is this guy Horgan, what is he saying and what happens if he becomes premier? Will a competitive tax system put in place by Clark be repealed by her NDP successor? Some in the room, who are less conversant with parochial English or slang, might also ask for clarification as to what Horgan means when he says “done”.

[quote=“BTravenn”]I think that Horgan’s comments do matter.

LNG will require enormous investments of capital, these are complex projects that are subject to lengthy and complicated regulatory reviews. The issue for government is more about creating a business environment that will encourage investment in LNG, but nothing will go ahead unless and until developers are ready to proceed, recognizing that they are operating in competitive international markets, in terms of supply, demand and abilities of different jurisdictions to provide stable and attractive places to build very expensive plants.

I don’t recall Christy Clark promising that everything will be in place by next election or setting specific revenue targets. There are too many unknowns and many key decisions that determine scheduling, levels of investment and hence potential revenues to the Province will be made by industry, not the government. The most that can be said is that LNG would generate a lot of new economic activity and resource revenue, but how much that might be and when exactly no one knows or can know at this point.

With that in mind, the NDP seems to be developing a strange, not very credible narrative, where they say they support LNG but that support seems lukewarm at best. They also seem eager to say Clark will not be able to keep so-called ‘promises’ that the NDP itself would not make, not least of all because there are too many unknowns for anyone to make specific promises.

Having one or more operational plants will take a few years at least and, if built, will outlive several governments. Investors have to be asking themselves, who is this guy Horgan, what is he saying and what happens if he becomes premier? Will a competitive tax system put in place by Clark be repealed by her NDP successor? Some in the room, who are less conversant with parochial English or slang, might also ask for clarification as to what Horgan means when he says “done”.[/quote]

So I wasn’t so far wrong a few posts ago when I suggested that the NDP could be blamed for every LNG plant that doesn’t get built even when they are not in power, and even, at this point, with no expectation that they will win the next election.

As for recalling Christy Clark’s promises:

[quote] Premier Christy Clark on Tuesday staked her political future on her approach to liquefied natural gas, promising her government’s strategy could transform the province’s massive resource stores into a more-than-$100-billion fund, enough to erase the province’s debt by the end of the 2020s.

“This will be a transformational change for our province and we cannot afford to be short-sighted,” said Clark’s throne speech, read Tuesday by Lieutenant-Governor Judith Guichon.

With just 13 weeks to go before a provincial election, Clark said a liquefied natural gas industry would be running full steam in the province by about 2020, and could mean between $4.3 billion and $8.7 billion in extra government revenues each year. [/quote]

vancouversun.com/news/Christ … story.html

However,

[quote] During the election campaign in the spring of 2013, the B.C. Liberals touted a plan to retire the provincial debt with a “prosperity fund” that would begin collecting revenue from LNG by 2017. The campaign platform stated that the fund would reap as much as $100-billion over 30 years.

But the Finance Minister is now vague about whether there would be such a lucrative fund at all.[/quote]

theglobeandmail.com/report-o … e21197502/

I am not sure how many proposals are out there, but I think I read somewhere between 12-18. Nor do I know how many are viable. Maybe somebody can tell me. The hype was there during the election. Expectations are high, especially for the communities that can gain the most. All of that is obvious.

But in one year, the hype, even from the government, is diminished. So what are the reasonable expectations for the northwest. Can both Rupert and Kitimat have a terminal or two or three and who has the most to say in that decision: industry, world markets, the Liberal government, city councils, or John Horgan.

I am not defending John Horgan. Blast away. The election is only two some years away and if it helps your cause, go for it. Personally, I am not sure I understand what he hoped to gain from his comments in Terrace. Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut. However, there is nothing there that is going to cause much ripples outside Rupert.

He said that BG was “done” and I agree there are a multitude of words that he could have used instead. And my definition of “done” in this context is “ain’t gonna happen” and as far as I can tell, it probably won’t - at least in the short term. As for Petronas, all he said was that it faced some challenges that a terminal in Kitimat wasn’t facing. Again, not sure what he was hoping to gain from the remark, but is it inaccurate? Does Petronas face a more difficult challenge than Kitimat?

And more importantly how much will his remarks affect Petronas, BG, or another company and their decision to locate here? If industry wants it, if world markets demand it, if the provincial and municipal governments are in favour, Horgan’s remarks are nothing but a whistle in a wind storm.

I’m not interested in old time hyperbole about blaming and blasting or the politics of polarization. I think that Horgan is in a position where what he says is not inconsequential and that he needs to choose his words more carefully.

Horgan’s comments are nothing more than a whistle in a wind storm? Interesting comment. Having read the discussion, and recognizing many of the posters political leanings…is it possible that Horgan’s comments are a life-line in a storm…a way to displace the blame…a way to excuse the failure of the Liberals’ political LNG dream spinning from the last election when faced with what appears to be a potential reality: a dream not achieved - the failure of the Liberals to effectively, efficiently, and in a timely manner pave the way for LNG development?
Just wondering…and probably inviting some old timers political hyperbole :smile:

I believe Mr Horgan and his party are at a crossroads in their history. With their base slowly gravitating to the Green Party agenda, and the poor job of Mr Dix in the last election of trying to return them to the fold by trying to pivot to a more enviro platform, in the process alienating labor once their bastion of power. I believe Mr Horgan and his party are still trying to adopt some Green principals and trying to pacify labor. Thats why he comes out with these statements to appeal to both wings of his party. Its a real balancing act that he is trying to negotiate and the future will tell if it works or not. Just my observation.

It’s too early to say whether the government’s LNG policy is a failure.

In the last provincial election I was a member of the NDP. No longer. Your observation is accurate in my case. I voted strategically to support Rice in 2013. At this point in time I am not sure who I will vote for in the provincial election of 2017. I won’t vote for Clark.

The base is not gravitating towards the Greens. If anything, the greens are gravitating towards the NDP, thus why they are having hard time remaining the socialist party, instead shifting towards becoming Conservatives that hug trees aka John Horgan. The Greens are largely un-electable, running 15-year olds and recycled failure candidates here in Prince Rupert.

Meanwhile, the BC Libs are like functioning drunks who keep telling us they’ve got everything under control, and on the surface this appears so. But they are just a crash waiting to happen. Look at how they have overpromised on LNG in a cynical way to get re-elected for a fourth straight election. No one questioned it because it seemed plausible “they ain’t drunk. They’ve only had a couple”. But these days, what with Mount Polley, they look like a mess.

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]The base is not gravitating towards the Greens. If anything, the greens are gravitating towards the NDP, thus why they are having hard time remaining the socialist party, instead shifting towards becoming Conservatives that hug trees aka John Horgan. The Greens are largely un-electable, running 15-year olds and recycled failure candidates here in Prince Rupert.

Meanwhile, the BC Libs are like functioning drunks who keep telling us they’ve got everything under control, and on the surface this appears so. But they are just a crash waiting to happen. Look at how they have overpromised on LNG in a cynical way to get re-elected for a fourth straight election. No one questioned it because it seemed plausible “they ain’t drunk. They’ve only had a couple”. But these days, what with Mount Polley, they look like a mess.[/quote]

The Liberals are certainly not perfect…but when you look at what has become of the NDP, there is NO better alternative. In BC it is really more about picking the least horrible party, and right now that is the Liberals.

The NDP have no identity, shit leadership and their own supply of scandals. The Greens and REAL Conservatives are far too radical to ever be taken seriously by a majority.

Look no further than Jennifer Rice’s performance as an MLA, she is the perfect example of what is wrong with the NDP due to the identity crisis they are going through. She is, IMO, the worst MLA we have ever sent to Victoria.

what politician doesn’t over promise during an election? if any politician every said the truth they would not get re-elected, oops forgot that is what Dix did. Our MLA was against LNG due to the fracking issue and also the GH gas the plants would generate, but during the election she never said any of that, she towed the party line that she is not opposed to LNG plants but fracking would have to be looked into.

[quote=“BTravenn”]

I’m not interested in old time hyperbole about blaming and blasting or the politics of polarization. I think that Horgan is in a position where what he says is not inconsequential and that he needs to choose his words more carefully.[/quote]

Nobody is disagreeing that a politician should choose his words more carefully. There are always political consequences to pay.

But I am still wondering why his comments were so egregious despite the poor word choice of “done”.

Questions: What is the likelihood of the BG proposal going ahead?
Do the proposals in Kitimat face fewer challenges than the Petronas proposal in Prince Rupert?

Horgan seems to think that the BG proposal is unlikely to happen and that Petronas has some challenges. That’s the extent of his comments. Maybe he shouldn’t have said anything and maybe he shouldn’t have said it where and when he did, but Is he wrong?

[quote=“BTravenn”]

It’s too early to say whether the government’s LNG policy is a failure.[/quote]

BTravenn is correct that it is too early to say whether the government’s LNG policy is a failure. However, Chien22 was only pointing out “what appears to be a potential reality: a dream not achieved”. The Liberals during the election set extremely high expectations for the future, higher than any expectations I can remember in my 40+ years of voting. ($100B Legacy Fund, debt free BC, 1000s of jobs) And the expectations for the northwest and Rupert are even higher as we have the most to gain from a successful LNG industry. Already, the Liberals have scaled back those expectations (perhaps they should have chosen their words more carefully) so now any perceived negative is magnified for us because we have more to lose if potential projects are abandoned.

At some point we will have a better idea of what the future holds and hopefully that future is positive. I am more interested in what industry, world markets and government have to say rather than getting overly concerned about John Horgan.

It would appear that the Weekly paper has a few thoughts on the tempest…

thenorthernview.com/opinion/283749781.html

Though not as prominently displayed, this letter to ed from Mr. Horgan

thenorthernview.com/opinion/ … 57461.html

[quote=“CharlesMHays”]It would appear that the Weekly paper has a few thoughts on the tempest…

thenorthernview.com/opinion/283749781.html[/quote]

I see what Shaun is saying. We have to do whatever we can to support industry, even if it means sitting down our professional credibility to do so.

Jennifer Rice has the opportunity to do what we elected her to do: support the BC Liberal platform full-stop. Shaun is right: she is failing horribly.

[quote=“bthedog”]

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]The base is not gravitating towards the Greens. If anything, the greens are gravitating towards the NDP, thus why they are having hard time remaining the socialist party, instead shifting towards becoming Conservatives that hug trees aka John Horgan. The Greens are largely un-electable, running 15-year olds and recycled failure candidates here in Prince Rupert.

Meanwhile, the BC Libs are like functioning drunks who keep telling us they’ve got everything under control, and on the surface this appears so. But they are just a crash waiting to happen. Look at how they have overpromised on LNG in a cynical way to get re-elected for a fourth straight election. No one questioned it because it seemed plausible “they ain’t drunk. They’ve only had a couple”. But these days, what with Mount Polley, they look like a mess.[/quote]

The Liberals are certainly not perfect…[/quote]

We agree!

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]

[quote=“CharlesMHays”]It would appear that the Weekly paper has a few thoughts on the tempest…

thenorthernview.com/opinion/283749781.html[/quote]

I see what Shaun is saying. We have to do whatever we can to support industry, even if it means sitting down our professional credibility to do so.

Jennifer Rice has the opportunity to do what we elected her to do: support the BC Liberal platform full-stop. Shaun is right: she is failing horribly.[/quote]

Saying that she is “failing horribly” is too nice!