BC Ferries cuts are all in NDP ridings

Is anyone really surprised by the BC Ferries cuts? I certainly am not. Almost all of these cuts are affecting communities that voted for the NDP in the last election…as I warned during previous election discussions, siding with the minority opposition in Victoria, as the North Coast riding has done for the last 3 elections in a row, was bound to have consequences and this is totally one of them.

I don’t support these BC Ferries cuts and obviously do not think they are good for this riding at all…but at the same time I totally understand the mentality of the Liberals in making these cuts and why. It is a political move to its core and I am not surprised in the least.

Here we have the BC Liberal government literally shining the spotlight on the North Coast for LNG/industry/trade expansion, yet the majority of voters continue to spit in their faces with their votes…it was only a matter of time when the slap back would occur from this Liberal government and the BC Ferries cuts are certainly it.

I will say though, I am glad Todd Stone called out Jennifer Rice in the legislature on her lack of support of LNG, an industry that is going to bring major prosperity and investment to her riding.

So let me get this straight… disappointment with your local MLA aside. You blame the voters in prince rupert for voting against a party that chooses to punish people for not voting for them?

I think that might be a little backwards buddy. Perhaps you should blame the asshats in the rest of BC for voting for such unethical fucktards.

[quote=“jesus”]So let me get this straight… disappointment with your local MLA aside. You blame the voters in prince rupert for voting against a party that chooses to punish people for not voting for them?

I think that might be a little backwards buddy. Perhaps you should blame the asshats in the rest of BC for voting for such unethical fucktards.[/quote]

I am not blaming the voters in this riding (people are free to vote for who they like), I am just stating I am not surprised in the least by these cuts occurring in NDP strongholds due to the political divide. Its pure politics.

This riding has continually supported the wrong side of government and as a result we are basically getting what we voted for. Why would the Liberals give us anything outside of the bare minimum? I don’t blame them. Why support us, when we don’t support them? Is it unethical, perhaps a little, but at the same time, its not all the hard to understand IMO. Considering the amount of support the government has shown PR over the last 5-7 years (investment and support in port expansion - which has literally pulled this city from the brink of total collapse), you would have to expect the Liberals would have liked to see more support from people in this riding…something they clearly have not gotten…so I can understand why they are not sympathetic to these issues that are VERY much affecting us.

We can bitch all we want, but in the end we chose to send opposition support to Victoria for the last 3 elections (this in spite of the government continually shining the investment light BRIGHTLY on this region)…that certainly was bound to affect this riding and now certainly has. Government investment will go where it has the most support, which is nowhere near this riding.

If this was a Liberal riding, we would not even be discussing the IDEA of ferry cuts.

We should thank our lucky stars for the ocean that is at our doorstep, that is the ONLY reason the Liberals are showing ANY interest here at all…I would hate to see what this riding would look like if there was no trade corridor…it would be a hell of a lot worse than losing some ferry sailings.

[quote=“bthedog”]

I am not blaming the voters in this riding, I am just stating I am not surprised in the least by these cuts occurring in NDP strongholds due to the political divide.

This riding has continually supported the wrong side of government and as a result we are basically getting what we voted for. Why would the Liberals give us anything outside of the bare minimum? I don’t blame them. Why support us, when we don’t support them? Is it unethical, perhaps a little, but at the same time, its not all the hard to understand IMO.

We can bitch all we want, but in the end we chose to send opposition support to Victoria for the last 3 elections (this in spite of the government continually shining the investment light BRIGHTLY on this region)…that certainly was bound to affect this riding and now certainly has. Government investment will go where it has the most support, which is nowhere near this riding.

If this was a Liberal riding, we would not even be discussing the IDEA of ferry cuts.

We should thank our lucky stars for the ocean that is at our doorstep, that is the ONLY reason the Liberals are showing ANY interest here at all…I would hate to see what this riding would look like if there was no trade corridor…it would be a hell of a lot worse than losing some ferry sailings.[/quote]

Unethical, perhaps a little? its blatantly unethical and you’re missing the point I made. In your opinion people voted for the wrong party and the party they should have voted for is the party pulling these very unethical moves. So according to you ethics be damned we should support the ruling party so we get stuff.

You realize what you are calling for right? its called a dictatorship. Everyone “supports” the ruling party so they don’t face their wrath (varying degrees of wrath I admit).

I’m not sure I can support your ideology.

[quote=“jesus”]

[quote=“bthedog”]

I am not blaming the voters in this riding, I am just stating I am not surprised in the least by these cuts occurring in NDP strongholds due to the political divide.

This riding has continually supported the wrong side of government and as a result we are basically getting what we voted for. Why would the Liberals give us anything outside of the bare minimum? I don’t blame them. Why support us, when we don’t support them? Is it unethical, perhaps a little, but at the same time, its not all the hard to understand IMO.

We can bitch all we want, but in the end we chose to send opposition support to Victoria for the last 3 elections (this in spite of the government continually shining the investment light BRIGHTLY on this region)…that certainly was bound to affect this riding and now certainly has. Government investment will go where it has the most support, which is nowhere near this riding.

If this was a Liberal riding, we would not even be discussing the IDEA of ferry cuts.

We should thank our lucky stars for the ocean that is at our doorstep, that is the ONLY reason the Liberals are showing ANY interest here at all…I would hate to see what this riding would look like if there was no trade corridor…it would be a hell of a lot worse than losing some ferry sailings.[/quote]

Unethical, perhaps a little? its blatantly unethical and you’re missing the point I made. In your opinion people voted for the wrong party and the party they should have voted for is the party pulling these very unethical moves. So according to you ethics be damned we should support the ruling party so we get stuff.

You realize what you are calling for right? its called a dictatorship. Everyone “supports” the ruling party so they don’t face their wrath (varying degrees of wrath I admit).

I’m not sure I can support your ideology.[/quote]

When are politicians NOT unethical…I don’t make the system. I only want to see this riding flourish economically and yes I will throw my support to whatever government chooses to support this riding economically.

Governing parties supporting regions that voted them into power is NOTHING new and is happening right across the globe, so people in this riding should not be surprised that that is exactly what is happening here now with these BC Ferries cuts.

What I am arguing is this government has shown us in the past that they can support this region DESPITE not getting that support back from its voters…the same actions being taken by this riding over and over in the face of support was bound to come back and bite us and now it has, so I am basically saying “I get it” not that I support it, but I understand.

And I am not saying ethics be damned…its obvious this riding will not support this Liberal government after this move…I am just lamenting at what a shitty situation it will be for this riding without having support in Victoria.

You can cutdown my posts by saying I support dictatorships or whatever else you want to say, but that doesn’t change the facts in all of this and it certainly is not going to end with a a different BC Ferries situation for this riding.

Well, maybe a couple of things are going on:

a) The ferries have always had a large subsidy. It is a well-known phenomena that if you are NDP you like subsidized services particularly when you are not paying for them. You, therefore, are happy to locate to a place where there is lots of subsidized services. That would be all along the coast - hence NDP territory.

b) It is a little known medical phenomena that salt water affects your brain - similarly to smoking Dope. Hey, again we are all along the coast. Hey NDP territory again.

c) Coastal communities have strong union roots due to the existence of primary industry. Hey, NDP territory - are we seeing a pattern here?

d) Ferries need seawater. The isn’t any seawater in the Conservative Voting interior of BC. Just a bunch of lakes. There are however some alkali lakes but they do not count. Wrong pH level.

e) It is a conspiracy.

f) It is politics, why are you surprised?

On the other hand, I think we should consider ourselves fortunate that the folks in power are not using the following line of reasoning.

a) The ferry system should be part of the highway system and be subsidized if necessary.
b) The ferry system should only connect communities to the closest mainland highway.
c) It would be redundant to have to connect a community via both a ferry and a highway connection.

The foregoing reasoning would mean that most of the most heavily subsidized route(s) on the system could be stopped. We would have a run for:

  1. Vancouver to Vancouver Island.
  2. Queen Charlotte Island to Prince Rupert
  3. Bella Bella to Bella Coola.
  4. Klemtu to Bella Bella
  5. A run connecting the Sechelt Peninsula communities to Lions Bay.

And there might be a few more small ones.

I believe we need to take a deep breathe and realize that if we want to live in certain areas of the province, it is our choice. If the services are not optimal, perhaps we should go move somewhere else. We don’t have a right to live in a place and expect the rest of the province to provide us with subsidized everything.

Your arguments are silly and thats why you get silly comparisons. Voting for who you think is going to win a majority government instead of who you feel will best represent you is stupid.

It is not the peoples fault the rest of the province choose to be morons and vote for an unethical party that chooses to punish people for not supporting them instead of doing things for the good of the province they were elected to represent. Supporting the ruling party out of hope they will choose to reward you for doing so is a nasty road that leads to dictatorship.

Did the people make the right choice? well who knows. Obviously their choice has issues but would the liberal have been worse? we will never know. I’m not saying I support the NDP because I don’t but your argument is weak and frankly kind of depressing.

“they all do it” is not a valid argument. You should be advocating for better and more ethical representation not arguing for the rest of us to lay down in the mud with you and your liberal buddies for treats. I’m not a dog, I won’t beg or roll over for “treats” and I think you will find the rest of the North feels the same way.

If that means we’re outcasts so be it. We have the resources not Vancouver they have to come to us and they know it.

[quote=“jesus”]Your arguments are silly and thats why you get silly comparisons. Voting for who you think is going to win a majority government instead of who you feel will best represent you is stupid.

It is not the peoples fault the rest of the province choose to be morons and vote for an unethical party that chooses to punish people for not supporting them instead of doing things for the good of the province they were elected to represent. Supporting the ruling party out of hope they will choose to reward you for doing so is a nasty road that leads to dictatorship.

Did the people make the right choice? well who knows. Obviously their choice has issues but would the liberal have been worse? we will never know. I’m not saying I support the NDP because I don’t but your argument is weak and frankly kind of depressing.

“they all do it” is not a valid argument. You should be advocating for better and more ethical representation not arguing for the rest of us to lay down in the mud with you and your liberal buddies for treats. I’m not a dog, I won’t beg or roll over for “treats” and I think you will find the rest of the North feels the same way.

If that means we’re outcasts so be it. We have the resources not Vancouver they have to come to us and they know it.[/quote]

My arguments are VERY far from silly…they are the truth of our political system in Canada, whether you choose to accept that or not is YOUR choice.

We clearly differ on support of the BC Liberals, so that is clearly going to have an impact on how we respond to each other. IMO the rest of the province got it right and this riding got it wrong…clearly that is not a view that is supported by the majority of voters in this riding.

Clearly the NDP are not the right part to represent what is currently and has been occurring on the North Coast…the NDP is against the grain of the current economic wave sweeping this riding.

My argument is NOT about what is or isn’t ethical, lack thereof is a forgone conclusion in ALL politics (not just BC Liberal politics)…my argument is that if we are continually going to send an opposition MLA to Victoria, after being given significant provincial attention and investment by the governing party, then we should not really be shocked when things like the BC Ferry cuts occur here. IMO all we do is bitch and bitch and bitch up here…even when we get things like government investment in Container Terminal and Ridley Expansion we STILL bitch…that type of attitude is not working for this riding.

People need to remember it is investment by the BC Liberals that helped make the Container Terminal a reality, it is the BC Liberals who have shined the national spotlight on PR for LNG investment, it is the BC Liberals that is investing in the Ridley Island Corridor Project that is employing many people at the moment. When you bite the hand that feeds you, what do you expect to happen? Its not a silly argument in the least, its quite REAL and factual and happening as we speak.

[quote=“bthedog”]
My arguments are VERY far from silly…they are the truth of our political system in Canada, whether you choose to accept that or not is YOUR choice.

We clearly differ on support of the BC Liberals, so that is clearly going to have an impact on how we respond to each other. IMO the rest of the province got it right and this riding got it wrong…clearly that is not a view that is supported by the majority of voters in this riding.

Clearly the NDP are not the right part to represent what is currently and has been occurring on the North Coast…the NDP is against the grain of the current economic wave sweeping this riding.

My argument is NOT about what is or isn’t ethical, lack thereof is a forgone conclusion in ALL politics (not just BC Liberal politics)…my argument is that if we are continually going to send an opposition MLA to Victoria, after being given significant provincial attention and investment by the governing party, then we should not really be shocked when things like the BC Ferry cuts occur here. IMO all we do is bitch and bitch and bitch up here…even when we get things like government investment in Container Terminal and Ridley Expansion we STILL bitch…that type of attitude is not working for this riding.

People need to remember it is investment by the BC Liberals that helped make the Container Terminal a reality, it is the BC Liberals who have shined the national spotlight on PR for LNG investment, it is the BC Liberals that is investing in the Ridley Island Corridor Project that is employing many people at the moment. When you bite the hand that feeds you, what do you expect to happen? Its not a silly argument in the least, its quite REAL and factual and happening as we speak.[/quote]

Vancouver doesnt have the resources, we do. They can’t ignore us. If they could invest in liberal supported ridings only they would do so but they have to grudgingly invest in the north because we have what they need. The rest of your post is a big eyeroll rant.

Personally I think its a good thing to vote for who you think can do the best for you instead of the ruling party begging for treats. You like to beg and plead and hope they throw you a bone I cant begrudge you for that.

[quote=“jesus”]

[quote=“bthedog”]
My arguments are VERY far from silly…they are the truth of our political system in Canada, whether you choose to accept that or not is YOUR choice.

We clearly differ on support of the BC Liberals, so that is clearly going to have an impact on how we respond to each other. IMO the rest of the province got it right and this riding got it wrong…clearly that is not a view that is supported by the majority of voters in this riding.

Clearly the NDP are not the right part to represent what is currently and has been occurring on the North Coast…the NDP is against the grain of the current economic wave sweeping this riding.

My argument is NOT about what is or isn’t ethical, lack thereof is a forgone conclusion in ALL politics (not just BC Liberal politics)…my argument is that if we are continually going to send an opposition MLA to Victoria, after being given significant provincial attention and investment by the governing party, then we should not really be shocked when things like the BC Ferry cuts occur here. IMO all we do is bitch and bitch and bitch up here…even when we get things like government investment in Container Terminal and Ridley Expansion we STILL bitch…that type of attitude is not working for this riding.

People need to remember it is investment by the BC Liberals that helped make the Container Terminal a reality, it is the BC Liberals who have shined the national spotlight on PR for LNG investment, it is the BC Liberals that is investing in the Ridley Island Corridor Project that is employing many people at the moment. When you bite the hand that feeds you, what do you expect to happen? Its not a silly argument in the least, its quite REAL and factual and happening as we speak.[/quote]

Vancouver doesnt have the resources, we do. They can’t ignore us. If they could invest in liberal supported ridings only they would do so but they have to grudgingly invest in the north because we have what they need. The rest of your post is a big eyeroll rant.

Personally I think its a good thing to vote for who you think can do the best for you instead of the ruling party begging for treats. You like to beg and plead and hope they throw you a bone I cant begrudge you for that.[/quote]

What exactly has the NDP done for this riding over the last 5-7 years? They haven’t been able to do jack shit for this riding because they do not have a majority in government. What they have done is bitched and complained about almost anything positive economically for this region.

Furthermore, we don’t have ANY resources here…all we have is a connection to the ocean…and the province certainly does not HAVE to push Prince Rupert as that connection.

Agreed. I would like to see our MLA be more vocal on issues that impact our community.

OK, so you don’t support the cuts but you understand why the Liberals have made them, and, according to you, they were done to “punish” certain ridings for not voting Liberal.

Are you saying that the cuts are unjustified? that the minister is lying when he says that the cuts are necessary and that the ferries are being under utilized? Are you saying that this was a purely political decision and has nothing to do with economics?

I really want to get a sense of where you are coming from here in terms of the cuts. Are you opposed to the cuts because of its effects on Prince Rupert (even though you understand the government’s decision based on the economics, not the politics) or are you opposed to the cuts because the cuts are unjustified no matter how you look at them?

Because you also suggest that we wouldn’t be discussing this if we had voted Liberal. If the decision was done completely out of spite then I have a huge problem. On the other hand, you also seem to suggest that regardless of the economics involved, our fiscally responsible government would have continued to throw money at a bad system just to reward a riding for voting a particular way? Again, a huge problem.

I know you are just pointing out the reality but you seem to be accepting that reality. Is this what you want from the government you voted for?

And what I find ironic about the decision to cut ferries as a punishment for us peasants who don’t know the right box to put the X is the reality that the people most likely to be harmed by the cuts are small business people, people involved in the tourism industry who probably voted for and donated money to the Liberals.

[quote=“DWhite”]

And what I find ironic about the decision to cut ferries as a punishment for us peasants who don’t know the right box to put the X … [/quote]

That service is being cut just to ‘punish’ people in ridings that vote NDP is just a theory and not a very convincing one at that.

Costs and passenger numbers are no doubt issues. By the way, I wonder if MLA Rice the ferry critic rides the ferries that much or at all?

[quote=“DWhite”]

OK, so you don’t support the cuts but you understand why the Liberals have made them, and, according to you, they were done to “punish” certain ridings for not voting Liberal.

Are you saying that the cuts are unjustified? that the minister is lying when he says that the cuts are necessary and that the ferries are being under utilized? Are you saying that this was a purely political decision and has nothing to do with economics?

I really want to get a sense of where you are coming from here in terms of the cuts. Are you opposed to the cuts because of its effects on Prince Rupert (even though you understand the government’s decision based on the economics, not the politics) or are you opposed to the cuts because the cuts are unjustified no matter how you look at them?

Because you also suggest that we wouldn’t be discussing this if we had voted Liberal. If the decision was done completely out of spite then I have a huge problem. On the other hand, you also seem to suggest that regardless of the economics involved, our fiscally responsible government would have continued to throw money at a bad system just to reward a riding for voting a particular way? Again, a huge problem.

I know you are just pointing out the reality but you seem to be accepting that reality. Is this what you want from the government you voted for?

And what I find ironic about the decision to cut ferries as a punishment for us peasants who don’t know the right box to put the X is the reality that the people most likely to be harmed by the cuts are small business people, people involved in the tourism industry who probably voted for and donated money to the Liberals.[/quote]

I never said they are being done to “punish” NDP voters, just that all of the cuts were happening in NDP stronghold ridings, like North Coast. Do I think it is EASIER for this Liberal government to make a cut like this in an NDP stronghold? Yes of course, I think it is a MUCH easier decision than say if this was a Liberal stronghold riding. Furthermore, perhaps these cuts would not be happening if this was a Liberal riding, and no that type of thinking has no baring on my vote and is nothing new when it comes to provincial or national politics (and I only need to point out the $300+ million that was pumped into a dead pulp mill by the NDP during the 90’s as proof that ALL political parties in power in BC do this type of thing from time to time, so I don’t think it is shocking at all or controversial).

Do I support the cuts? I don’t support them because I view the ferry service as an extension of the highway system, which is subsidized across the province. We subsidize the huge multi-lane highways that run through the interior and lower mainland, we subsidized the new bridges in Vancouver subburbs, so I feel that if cuts should be made, then they should not be made against BC Ferries. That being said, I also understand the other side as well, where many do not view the ferries as an extension of the highway, thus why should the province continue to subsidize these routes that are apparently losing money. I get that view and that is the argument the provincial government is going with. I am not going to agree all the time with what the BC Liberals are doing, especially when it negatively impacts the area where I live. That being said, I feel this government has done more good for this area than bad and is continuing to show strong economic support here.

I don’t think the decision was done out of spite…but I don’t think it was 100% based on economics either. Like I said, this riding has gone the other way 3 times over the last 3 elections, so the Liberals probably hold some behind the scenes resentment towards the voters in this area. It would certainly make a vote to cut services here a little easier than say somewhere like Kelowna. That being said, I also don’t think the minister is “lying”, but I think BTS there is certainly a little more too it than just “economics”.

I don’t personally use the ferry system and haven’t for over 15 years, so this cut really has no impact on me directly…but I see how it will hurt businesses in this area and tourism, which certainly is not good and could have a indirect effect on living here…but its not enough to make me grab my picket sign and run Victoria and march the legislature.

Thanks for the reply bthedog. As cynical as I am about the Liberals and most governments, I don’t think decisions are made out of spite. However, I do agree that political parties make decisions to reward friends and friendly ridings at the expense of more deserving or needy areas.

bcndp.ca/newsroom/reality-ch … el-program

While she may be a critic of the current situation involving ferries, MLA Rice is the Rural and Northern Health Critic and the Deputy Critic for Children and Family Development.

I am curious though why Jennifer Rice’s usual method of transport matters. I have lived here 40 years and have traveled south by ferry twice. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion on ferries. Besides, regardless of her travel preferences and regardless of her point of view, she is speaking out on behalf of members of our community which on other threads she has been criticized for not doing.

[quote=“DWhite”]Thanks for the reply bthedog. As cynical as I am about the Liberals and most governments, I don’t think decisions are made out of spite. However, I do agree that political parties make decisions to reward friends and friendly ridings at the expense of more deserving or needy areas.
[/quote]

I agree it is not out of spite…but I am sure the decision is a lot easier to make in an NDP stronghold…that is all I am trying to say here.

With all this discussion re: voting Liberal or NDP, the last time this riding voted Liberal(2001), we lost Skeena Cellulose and the entire Northwest still hasn’t recovered!!!
So much for voting Liberal!

The ferry system has always been subsidized. The government is simply reducing the subsidy. Yes, the reductions affect MLA ridings that have historically voted NDP. Do I think that they would have cut the subsidy if the areas in question had voted liberal. Probably not, or if they did it would be to a lesser extent.

When you strip away all the BS, most politicians see their primary job as getting re-elected. There really isn’t that many of them who do it out of a sense of nobleese oblige. When you look at the compensation package they receive and the pension that is available if they can get elected a couple of time, it is a great career move if you have the stomach for it.

If you don’t believe me, take a look at the work autobiographies of most of our MLA’s ( suggest you start with WHN). Quite a few of them have not done much else in their life, but work in politics. Damn few of them have ever been responsible for the operation of a corporation. Many have been employees in the public sector, societies or NGO’s. Not really positions with bottom-line responsibility.

Thanks for the link, DWhite. Guilty as charged. It is safe to say that I do not have a very favorable opinion of our MLA. Your point is well taken. I will try to be a bit more objective about her contributions.

Bottom line is some of the ferry runs are terribly expensive and running way below capacity. It is reasonable for taxpayers to expect the government to reduce the service if it isn’t being used.