Hmmm…Mike your the one who said that the land is contaminated. I call Bullshit. Whats it contaminated with? you also stated that there is much greater places for parkland, but you decline to suggest anything. Armchair quarterbacking?
Tax dollars could be minimized with community involvement. That would require people getting up and heloing each other for a commin goal ie parkland. Its done everywhere across the country. you can see it in the td sponsored program where people clean waterways for a day a year.
It works…Im not saying blow the budget on any park/recreation program…Im saying be inovative…
Council…I am proud to live in PR…I had my water line dug up last year as well. I was fortunate enought to have it brreak on the city side. WAKE UP the city isnt in a declining state. We are on the cusp of being what Charles Hayes visioned. Shit will get fixed. The city yard has hired a bunch in the past few months
Hey Council Watch, that’s news! (Hopefully the newspaper or CBC might pick up on something like that eh. might be an interesting interview for the mayor to take) When did this happen, or is this the old story from the SQCRD mess.
If the Administrator’s wife did happen to get hired on at city hall and provided with a title as you describe, then that might raise a few eyebrows of the local populace. What was the title created and what kind of ca ching has been offered up if you know.
While being married to the city administrator probably shouldn’t preclude anyone from employment and in the past City Hall has been the home of more than one double dipping family, it still shows up on the ole hmmmmm radar whenever it happens.
As for Mcsash and his following:
"WAKE UP the city isnt in a declining state. We are on the cusp of being what Charles Hayes visioned. Shit will get fixed. The city yard has hired a bunch in the past few months
BE patient and remain positivr"
While it’s good that the city seems to think that its financially well off now to start hiring staff at city hall and the city yard, it’s kind of hard to see where they’ve discovered the giant pot of money to do this. Especially when you look at our crumbling infrastructure in town and the fact that the city reduced the police staffing over the last few years. leaving us in a rather under served state (traffic tickets excpeted ). Long time residents can probably point out many other things that aren’t being done anymore or have been changed to reflect a more parsimonious time.
It would appear that the only solution that city hall comes up with is to hide the taxes by splitting them up from one big hit to a twice a year grab, then go and increase the same taxes so we won’t be quite as shocked.
Near as I can tell, there hasn’t been any great influx of taxpayers moving to the city yet, yes property values are going up, the asking and selling prices of property are going up and properties are changing hands, but that’s more speculatiive purchases rather than warm bodies moving to town to take up jobs and create businesses. (and share the load on taxes with the poor souls that have stayed through the decline)
While it’s true we should remain positive, right at this moment there really isn’t that much difference in the economic situation in the city than there was four years ago when the decline began it’s speedy descent.
With the exception of the recent cattle call at the Longshoremen’s office, there haven’t been too many jobs offered up just yet to show the rejuvenation of which you speak. They no doubt will come, I could be wrong, but I don’t think it will be as quick as everyone seems to think it’s going to be
Council watch is correct to offer up contrarion opinions, the folks that spend our money need to be held to account for their decisions. They’ve made a few questionable moves in the past and when you bring out that monopoly board on council nights they seem to get a little over excited at times.
Here is a excerpt from an article I read on line last week, and the new position that the City has created for the Administrator’s wife. Wouldn’t it only be nice if all of us were so lucky to have jobs created for us… and yes, there was a report done by the provincial government and the details contained in the report were extremely concerning when you are told that the City does not have any money, but yet keeps spending it. I not only paid nearly $800.00 for utilities this year, but a paid another 1,700 for taxes. What are we going to be paying when the 100 year old system final gives up?
The City of Prince Rupert benefited from having Tobias spend his internship working with us and would like to hear from other local governments that have hosted interns over the past year. Please contact Tanalee Hesse, Projects & Initiatives Coordinator, thesse@princerupert.ca.
[quote=“mcsash”]
WAKE UP the city isnt in a declining state. We are on the cusp of being what Charles Hayes visioned. Shit will get fixed. [/quote]
Nice… just continue on and ignore the problem. All will be better in the future. It seems to me that attitude is how we got into financial trouble in the first place. No offence, of course.
Hmm, guess that things aren’t quite as transparent as was promised back when we had the election.
Not sure of the job requirements for the position, or the qualifications of the successful candidate, but you’re right about the optics of it all, especially when the city is struggling to keep its financial house in order.
Keep up the eagle eye there council watch, if the population isn’t too cynical maybe they’ll pay attention by next election time…
mike i think the main reason the financial problem happened is because our officials bought into dan veniez’s line of bullshit and carried on like the mill had never even closed. i worked there fifteen years, and i knew it was never gonna reopen, skeena ran it into the ground on perpose. the city should not have counted those eggs when they come from a chicken thats a known crook. george petty came out to the mill and told us he was gonna bury skeena and rupert if we went on strike in 1990, and he kept his word. he had veniez do it for him, they are best of friends, george “built” veniez into who he was, and i suspect was secretly backed by other pulp and paper companies to pound out that scam he called labor agreement hoping to eventually get it industry wide. i guess you are right , they pretended that it would just take care of itself, and bought into the tales from a con artist.
Bingo Bongo Luongo…Dead on Chris. The city continued spedning as if the pulp mill was still there. I sat in on a community forum at the PAC when the snake salesman Veniez sat at the helm and promised visions of grandeur. On the backs pf union members. Even when long time employees knew what he was capable of. PPWC warned the community of the scam but people were so desperate that they took it all in.
Council should of held of in the spending years ago. Now its time to start the cash barreling again. Days of the mill will eventually come back. Its in the works. When outside investors are gulping up property it should be a sign…
The time to “start the cash barreling again” is when the money is actually there. Not when it might be there, when we hope it will be there, or even when it’s “in the works”. To do otherwise is just to repeat the mistakes that have already been made.
To borrow a catchy little descriptive phrase: Bingo, Bongo, Luongo… Dead on Mike.
Would be nice to have the money before we start spending as if we did, that as has been pointed out is what got this burg into the mess it’s in…
As for everyone getting sucked in by Veniez, it’s nice to have a bogey man to blame it all on, but there is a certain amount of local responsibility one would think, over that particular chapter of local history…
If I remember correctly, the council of the day kind of chased away the Swiss guys Mercer, in quest of Mr. Veniez’s gold, so don’t let them off the hook because they bought that soap, they made their choice of the day.
Of course, it helps to be a monday evening quarterback, but still, as despicable as folks seem to want to paint Mr. Veniez, the council of the day did in the end make the deal. Due diligence and all…
History is full of bogey men!!! There is always a bogey man. On a different note, I think CrazyMike would make a good addition to the municipal government - seriously. When is the next election? What do you say CrazyMike? Do it for the little people.
Jumpin Jeezuz…with the likes of Mike on Council we would have the likes of ideas like this and I quote “I’ve got an even better idea for the land. The city should buy it up and fill it with rows upon rows of porta-potty’s as a backup for when the sewer system crumbles into nothing”
Oh and how about scare tactics suchs as claiming soil contamination at the BCP site.
I guess people have been talked in to running for city council before…
One parting word on this post…PR is going to be the major hub of economic development for central and western Canada, people government and corporations have major interest in this place. We as rupertites, born and bred, who have witnessed prosperity and depression should open our eyes and see the windfall that will happen. The spinoffs will be humongo.
Start buying properties you will make a tidy profit …
Yawn. So now you resort to quoting stuff that was obviously sarcasm as fact? mcsash, the problem I have with your opinion is that you think decisions should be made based on our emotional link to the city. I too want the best for Prince Rupert and I think we’re going to see some great times down the road. I don’t lack faith in Prince Rupert. I could have easily left this town long ago along with everyone else. I have stunted my career development to stay here. Faith doesn’t pay the bills though and I think that fiscal responsibility means not being blinded by what we think Rupert is or what we hope it will be. That kind of decision making got us to where we are today.
Don’t worry, I won’t be running for council but I do appreciate the laugh I got from it being suggested. Thanks Dave.
Dave …just a quick thought…who are the little people?..I had vsions of smurfs and mike being a political leader amongst the little blue guys…midgets(im told little people is more politically correct!!!)…or the little people from night at the museum?..just who are the “little people”?
you telling me dan wasnt a scamming businessman? i agree with you one hundred percent it was our local elected fools who are responsible, dan was just doing his job which is ripping money off the regular folks so he and his gang can remain multi millionaires, thats how it works and has always worked. that doesnt mean we have to like it, or cannot see veniez’s other agenda. is every topic going to have to be an “us against them”, it is starting to seem like thats whats happening. i think it was einstein who said “in agreement we learn nothing”.
pod i worked at the mill for 15 years, my entire life was on the line with that fiasco so i followed the situation very closely and made my own opinion of dan. he was telling all sorts of lies, i wish i had saved the emails i got from him so i could have let you see what i mean. i think it has been a good thing the mill closed, it has forced the city and all of its former employees to have to grow and evolve, and thats always a good thing. it hurts at first, but its better in long run.
i think the things we have finally got in the works may not have been done had the mill not failed, it forced what needed to be done it the first place. i can tell by people’s posts that rupertites for the most part are paying far more attention to what our elected folks are doing and care alot more about what happens to the community as a whole. we all seem much more aware of what is going on and dont take it for granted that things will just work out without any of our personal concern. i think if we can all realize that at the end of the day we all want the same things, that we are all on the same team, then we can collectively take on city hall, blindside them from all angles. i, for one mike did not laugh at the idea of you running, i would vote for you cause i have got to know a bit about your values and charactor from reading your posts, your the type of guy we want.
I agree with many of the writers, Mike is the guy for the job. On the subject of Dan Veniez, how is it we all knew what a snake oil salesman he was except for our elected leaders! I would also like to remind you it is not city council who has played any real role in us getting the container port, it is all to do with the congestion building up in ports in Vancouver, LA etc. This type of money would never have come our way otherwise. We should not forget that all of these council members except for two have been on council for two terms now, and could have made some necessary cuts in spending before now. I for one would like to see an updated financial report from city council and see what kind of dollars we have set aside for fixing roads, sewer/water lines and the cost of the landfill closure that they will need a couple of million in the next year. If I was a gambling man, I would bet my money that this is still low on their priorities…
No need to send me any material, though it might be an interesting adventure i guess. I’m pretty well aware of Mr. Veniez’s snake oil act of the day.
I never thought he would deliver from day one, and I had no vested interest in the mill as you did from your employment there.
My point is simply that it’s easy to revise the history of that day, the council at the time all but tripped over themselves to land his “vision” (remember that memorable headline) for the future.
I seem to remember Mercer from Switzerland and Thompson from Ontario looking at the mill and walking away after the Veniez dance started to heat up.
There were many problems with that particular time period, the simple fact is that the town was desperate for a savior and somehow picked the wrong pony to wager on.
It would be interesting to learn what scared off Mercer and Thompson and the other tire kickers of the day, who knows a different decision might have provided a different outcome.
Or maybe not, but all we can do is learn from our past mistakes and that means remembering all of the events of that time and not just the one key player of the melodrama.
You never know when the next Tin man is going to come and knock on our door.
i think i can answer alot of those questions for you, its more typing than i am in the mood for right now so ill be very brief and i will elaborate more on it tomorrow. i have no idea why anyone with a brain who worked out there actually thought a day would come when it would restart. in a very small nutshell here is why.
the mill made its own electricity from a department called the “powerhouse”. it has large boilers that make steam that is used to spin a huge generator making the power for all the machines used to make pulp. the boilers have metal tubes that run through them, these tubes get old and damaged and need to be constantly maintained and repaired. well, they skipped many maintinence shutdowns and let them fall into poor condition. the price tag to fix them was five hundred million dollars.
many prospective buyers came to look at the place, including the two you mentioned, but once they saw what repairs were needed they didnt walk away, they ran. want to hear a good one? guess who else was “seriously looking”? enron, hahaha! this was right before they went tits up, too fucking funny yeah? see no company can ever recover their costs to purchase and repair the mill, it was old and run down, and one of the worst polluters. skeena ran it like you would a car you are going to sell, you dont fix the brakes, change the oil and all that type of shit if your getting rid of it next week. they planned its death years before it happened, you tell by the way they ran it. their plan was to let that happen, and have veniez muscle in that labor contract, which in following years will be the industry standard. the working man gets quite a bit poorer, and they get richer, they own many other mills too, in time the payoff for it would have been huge for them. they planned to get that done, then blackmail the government to repair the powerhouse with taxpayers funds, in the end they get the mill back, a collective bargain that floors the entire industry, and makes local four the scum of the earth for accepting it when really you can see who is really the greedy scum mastermind genius cocksuker that he is! they did this very thing sixteen years ago, and almost pulled it off again.
[quote=“ChrisJ”]
i think i can answer alot of those questions for you, its more typing than i am in the mood for right now so ill be very brief and i will elaborate more on it tomorrow. i have no idea why anyone with a brain who worked out there actually thought a day would come when it would restart. in a very small nutshell here is why. …
[/quote]
Thanks for your take on the situation as you observed it, sounds like a freakin’ nightmare from the get go.
I know from my own past adventures with previous employers the games they play, the way they play one employee off against another and such, it’s no fun and certainly does taint your impression of the business class.
I have no real inside knowledge of the machinations in the mill, though like many Rupertites I’ve heard hundreds of horror stories about the place over the years, from incompetent management to thieving employees, there probably isn’t a story that hasn’t been told.
I actually remember when Enron was sniffing around, guess they needed another spot to launder their money, would have surely added to the legend of the place had they been sucessful, but fortunately you folks gained a few more years of work without the benefit of Kenny and the gang.
It’s interesting to note that the same kind of game is now being played out there from the new owners from China, who don’t seem to be inclined to operate the place either, which means whether you’re a running dog capitalist exploiter or a better red than dead communist apartchik, when it comes to the mill, neither are particularly quick to open their books or share their plans with the locals…
But again, thanks for the insight, its nice to occassionally find some nuggets of information along these chat boards…
I seem to remember that Thompson walked away after the municipalities were standing their ground on receiving all of the unpaid/past-due property taxes. So rather than work out a deal to excuse some past taxes our elected officials used their powerful negotiating position to send Woodbridge packing. Obviously cutting a deal with Sun Wave for abolutely no taxes for 5 years was a better option.
). Long time residents can probably point out many other things that aren’t being done anymore or have been changed to reflect a more parsimonious time.