This one is for Uncle Stumbly

Feel free to discuss, I know it might get heated,  so Moderator,  if you do send to the wasteland,  please give it its own thread…

My own thread, just for me? Wow!!

I find it somewhat surprising how so many people take potshots at religion on this forum and that anyone who posts that they believe in God or are affiliated with any church should prepare to have their beliefs stepped on readily, repeatedly, and with great emphasis. A question about summer camp availability turns into repeated bitter diatribes about religion, churches, and people’s faith.

A simple question was asked as a result of that discussion: upon what do you base the morality and ethics that you teach your children?

But in answer to the thread’s question: yup, I believe in God.

[quote=“Uncle Stumbly”]

A simple question was asked as a result of that discussion: upon what do you base the morality and ethics that you teach your children?[/quote]

And you already have one answer…

Morality and ethics are used by the church,  but were not created by them…

People are afraid of the idea that our moral and ethical code isn’t programmed into us at birth, and that it’s centuries of Judeo-Christian influence that have taken us to where we are morally. We can also thank Judeo-Christian influence for things we’ve been trying hard to rid our society of, like homophobia and racism. That doesn’t mean anyone has to believe in God, it’s just an acknowledgment that we’re all connected to everything that’s come before.

I am God.


I’m not so much afraid that it isn’t as skeptical that it is. If people behave the way they do even WITH the efforts of various church teachings, do you believe they would behave that much BETTER without extra moral and ethical teaching?

I have my doubts.

No, I don’t. That was the point of my post. I think it’s nurture, not nature, that determines our idea of right and wrong–except perhaps universal truths about good and bad that everyone feels, like agreeing that the killing of innocents is wrong.

I voted that there might be a GOD. 

Personally, I have never found a religion that fit.  Frankly I think the likelihood of GOD being similar to something like the deities depicted in Harlan Ellison’s Deathbird Stories is pretty good.

In the meantime, I will base my values and morality on secular humanism

Yes,  I do think,  and I do know that people behave much better.  We have no safety net,  like forgiveness,  repenting on our death bed, or an after life. 

Our choice to behave better is on a higher level than those who do so because they do not want to go to hell, etc…

We do so because it is how you treat your fellow man/woman. 

And from the looks of the poll, the days of religion are comeing to an end…

All the fun people go to hell according to certain religious texts. Hell must be one heck of a fun thrill ride for all eternity.

I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun (Billy Joel)

And from the looks of the poll, the days of religion are comeing to an end…

I wouldn’t use 10 people on HTMF to come to many conclusions.

I don’t like the choices of the poll.  Richard Dawkins had a seven point scale which I will summarize.

  1. I KNOW there is a god.
  2. There is a high probability that there is a god and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
  3. I am very uncertain but I am inclined to believe in God.
  4. The existence or non- existence of god is equally probable.
  5. I don’t know if god exists but I tend to be skeptical.
  6. I think god is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption he is not there.
  7. I KNOW there is no god.

Assuming we are talking about a god that listens to prayer, can involve himself in our lives, and rewards or punishes us at death, then I would be a 6.

I agree with you DWhite for many reasons that I won’t bother to list here as I assume many think the same way.  What I would like to know is why do I feel I have to pretend to be a believer around those that are so that those that DO NOT judge, will not judge me? I am judged because I do not attend church, judged because I do not attend classes or prayer meetings . It is strange how someone elses’ beliefs, inflicted upon me, gives them this power to make me feel unworthy and less of a person than themselves. Strange !! Does anyone else endure this same treatment or am I the ultimate people pleaser?

You guys are arguing over something that, by its very definition, can’t be proven or disprove.  Faith is about believing in something that can’t be known.

The trouble is that some people think that Faith and Knowledge are the same thing, or that there’s some overlap.  There isn’t. 

If you know God exists, then you don’t really understand faith.

If you know God doesn’t exist, then you really don’t understand knowledge.

Anyway, draw two circles on a piece of paper.  On the left is Religion, on the right is Science or Knowledge.  They don’t intersect.  Instant Venn Diagram, eh.

I’m definatly a #7. I’ll list some reasons why:

  1. starvation
  2. cancer
  3. war
  4. disease
  5. income tax

For me the arguement is not about what people believe.  Its the effect of what they believe on myself and society as a whole.  But the times they are a changing,  and none too soon.

Well, now call me simplistic but for me it starts with this: either I believe that the universe is eternal and that all life is just a random act of chance or I believe that God is eternal and that there is some design to this life.

Eternal universe and randomness vs eternal God and order

I mean, matter doesn’t just spontaneously generate, right? So the universe has always been here and we just happen to be spun into existence. Or…matter doesn’t spontaneously generate unless it’s created and there’s a reason we’re here.

I start from there. I have to believe something’s eternal. I choose to believe that God is eternal and created the universe. Personally, I think it takes a lot more faith to believe in an eternal universe; that puts an awful lot of pressure on those believers because they’ve got no back-up. One chance, make or break. When you’re done, you’re DONE.

Back in the days the Catholics think the Earth is flat, and that the sun and other planets orbits around it. Anybody oppose that theory must be burned on the stake.

Today, Christian fundamentalists don’t believe dinosaurs exists. Ironically, fossils and bones can be found in the bible belt states and Alberta. =.=’

Back in the days the Catholics think the Earth is flat.[/quote]


Scholars (including religious ones) pretty much figured out that the Earth was round before Catholics even existed.  But it’s a common myth.

Hmmmm… perhaps I’m a bit confused.

Stuff I learned from Humanities 8. =.=’

I’m a 5 on Dawkins’ list. Both #1 and #7 require faith in my estimation.

I’m usually quiet about my beliefs until someone tries to dump their delusions on me, then I feel quite free to give them a piece of my mind.