The kids in that photo are playing “Left hand-right hand” hehe.
FSA tests are your classic FUD – Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.
I wonder why everyone is so scared about tests. Are they not just tools we can use to see where we are? If we don’t know where we are, how do we know where we’re going even if we do how to get there.
I think because teachers aren’t evaluated on a regular basis they might be nervous about these tests. How many people like going to a Dr. that wasn’t held to a standard or only just passed his, I’m a Dr test. In my employment I’m tested on a very regular basis and I’m not shaping our future or shaping childrens’ lives. Yet these are the people that are opposing these tests vehemently. Why is the local teachers union/principals opposing evaluations as we speak?
People should just chill and do the best for their community/school. Who listens to gossip and hearsay…usually the people creating it. People want to get up in arms about something, what about people/children that are dying because they lack water or food.
I think some type of testing is important to ensure that students are learning the basics across the province. I can remember and I’m very thankful that I had teachers that drilled the basics into us early on. Mrs. Hydelk (sp) in grade 2 at Conrad spent months getting us to memorize basic timestables. I can still recall up to the 12 timestables from memory without thought. Mrs. Dias in grade 4 drilled us for spelling I can still spell without many problems.
My wife on the other hand, needs to pull out a calculator for any math and she’s a terrible speller. Was her elementary experience in a different district the cause?
What about administering the tests in a different format? How about administering a test at the beginning of the year of whatever grade is being tested. Give the schools each students individual results so they know where they’re at and can work on problem areas. At the end of the year administer a similar test and compare the two tests of each individual. Use the differences to measure how well schools are teaching the basics.
The before and after tests would help eliminate outside factors that affect a students ability to learn, ie coming to school hungry, living in a depressed economy, living in the North versus the city, going to a public or private school, etc. Really the only person the student would be comparing their performance to is themselves at the start of the year. Schools would compare how many students improved or stayed the same. The Fraser Institute could come up with a report card that showed which schools are helping the most children improve and measure the levels of improvement. That would be much more useful to parents and teachers.
Yes, that would be a good approach.
One issue might be that teachers would aim for the tests instead of teaching curriculum. Especially if any improvement would directly attributed to them.
Another issue would be that the private schools and highly academic schools wouldn’t do very well in such a test – there probably wouldn’t be much improvement between September and June. Going from 98% to 99% isn’t much of an improvement, compared to going from 50% to 70%, for example.
Personally, I’d go for a system that tested each student at the beginning of the year, and then randomnly chose students to test at the end of the year. That would give valid provincial data. Parents would individual student performance evaluation from their teachers just like they always do, FSA or no FSA. That’s why we have report cards.
As for comparing your wife’s “basic” skills to yours – I’m sure you’ll find that there were students in your classes and cohort that can’t spell or suck at math, MrT. I can think of a couple!
Personall
But what if parents want to know how their kids are doing against other kids in the province? What if they want to know how well their kids are doing in English, rather than English as taught by Mr. Doe?
All the testing in the world becomes a moot point if kids simply don’t show up for class.
[quote=“eccentric”]
But what if parents want to know how their kids are doing against other kids in the province? What if they want to know how well their kids are doing in English, rather than English as taught by Mr. Doe?[/quote]
“against other kids in the province” ? Ie: the other kids doing the same curriculum? No problem, they already get that on the report card, and with performance standards evaluation, for example. If there’s a particular skill or bit of knowledge described in the curriculum, then it is part of the evaluation.
If you’re talking about high school, they get that with provincial exams as well. Single-indicator and “high stakes” assessment isn’t the best anyway. The research is clear that formative assessment is the best approach for learning.
But anyway, this isn’t supposed to be the point of FSAs, remember – they’re not supposed to replace assessment for learning. The government maintains that FSAs exist to measure for statistical purposes – for provincial decision-making.
What grade level are you talking about eccentric? Have you looked at the provincial curriculum for that level? If so, you’ll find something very interesting.
I was talking about 4 and 7–I thought those were the only grades that took the FSA test.
I’ll step through my logic. I’ve read many times that teachers are forced to “teach to the test” for FSA years. I assume that the FSA test is written based on the curriculum for that year–could be wrong. Therefore, I read that teachers don’t like being forced to teach to the curriculum, and that troubles me.
What would I found if I looked through the curriculum that I’d find very interesting?
So you’re now abandoning your view that FSAs are given so parents can see how their kids are doing with relation to the rest of the province? Or do you still believe that’s their purpose?
In previous posts you spoke about the ranking of schools, but then you talk about individual kids. Which is it that you think is the purpose of the FSAs?
Yes, you could.
No, that’s not the case at all. You’re wrong, and in the exact opposite direction of reality. Teachers don’t have a problem with evaluation, and with testing. We sure do a lot of it. We tend to evaluate for learning, though.
Teachers also don’t have a problem with curriculum.
Read through the article at the beginning of the thread, and you’ll see the objections.
I never said I was abandoning any view–but I didn’t say that FSAs are given so parents can see how their kids are doing with relation to the rest of the province. Is it possible for the FSAs to serve both its stated purpose and be informative to parents?
I’ve not once said I support the ranking of schools, that’s your own editorializing. I don’t think either of the options you gave me are the stated purpose of the FSAs, but I still think that they can be used to better inform parents who want to know if their child meets, does not meet, or exceeds the expectations of the government.
Are the FSAs not written based on the curriculum?
[quote=“eccentric”]
I never said I was abandoning any view–but I didn’t say that FSAs are given so parents can see how their kids are doing with relation to the rest of the province. Is it possible for the FSAs to serve both its stated purpose and be informative to parents?[/quote]
So only grade 4 and 7 parents get to see how their kids are doing? No problem with being informative to parents, that’s the whole purpose of reporting. And it happens in every grade, not just 4 and 7.
So you’re not saying what you’re saying, ok, no problem. “I didn’t say that FSAs are given so parents can see how their kids are doing with relation to the rest of the province.” No, you just asked it: “But what if parents want to know how their kids are doing against other kids in the province?”
I think you’ve waded into an argument and made some bad assumptions (see above), and are now looking to backpedal out of it.
Sure. Have you read the curriculum, or are you just making more assumptions? Seriously, pick a grade, and then pick the English curriculum for that grade, and look it up. Come back and tell us what it says, especially with respect to the difference between “how well kids are doing in English, rather than English as taught by Mr. Doe?”
Stop making assumptions, because your ignorance of the topic is coming through. Do some reading first.
If Mr. Doe. Drops the e, he becomes Mr. Do. 
I am no expert on the grade 4 and 7 curriculums and how the FSA test relates.
I do know a bit about the problem of teaching to the test.
A test is only a part of the entire evaluation of a particular grade. For example eccentric, the final exams you wrote in grade 10, 11 and 12 made up one part of your evaluation for the course. During the year, you did formal essays, oral presentations, argued in class etc. In fact, your willingness to participate in these discussions and your ability to present a point of view, in my opinion, puts you ahead of somebody who won’t/can’t, even if they can recall a few more trivial facts for a test.
If teachers feel compelled to spend more time preparing for a test at the expense of other equally valid means of learning and assessing then we have a problem.
If teachers become so concerned about how well their students will do on the reading writing and math portions of the curriculum and spend more time on them at the expense of say Science or Health or whatever, then we have a problem. (I should be clear here. Language Arts and Math already take up the majority of a school day as they should. I am not sure if we need to be spending more time because of a test.)
So it isn’t that teachers are not teaching the curriculum when they prepare for the test. (And they may not be, but I don’t know the curriculums well enough to know.) The problem is how much time do we spend to do well on a single assessment at the expense of all the other valid learning opportunities out there.
[quote]In fact, your willingness to participate in these discussions and your ability to present a point of view, in my opinion, puts you ahead of somebody who won’t/can’t, even if they can recall a few more trivial facts for a test.
[/quote]
I am not taking sides on this, but I agree with this point.
I’m a student at one of the local high schools and I believe I stand out from my fellow peers.
Why? Because I participate in most of the ways you have outlined. Thanks for reminding me of this 
Also quite relieving as Provincials are next week. Please people wish me luck? <3
Good luck there AndrewMorgan4
Well get off the htmf boards and start cracking those books… 
Just kidding, good luck on your exams… 