So the ISP business should be treated like any other government-owned monopoly. There should be a review board, etc. Like the way they do with BC Hydro and other monopolies.
But then it gets weirder. Citywest expanded outside of Prince Rupert, and bought a cable company. And now your tax dollars are helping Citywest compete with private enterprise with their TV, and mobile phone divisions.
So now you have a city-owned asset (a broke city, by the way) that is being risked in a marketplace that is very competitive. How many millions did Citywest’s “We asked around and nobody wants it” moment cost its owners (ie: the taxpayers of Prince Rupert) ?
Do you really trust that there won’t be more of these moments? Is that something the City should be risking their money on? Spin the roulette wheel!
Meanwhile, the City desperately wants to increase taxes to pay for the business they should be in – fighting fires, policing, etc.
How about we stop trying to beat Rogers, Telus and Bell, and instead focus on running a city instead? We don’t have the money to do both.
If Citywest is such a great corporation, then it will still be a great corporation in private hands.
Heck, I’d buy shares. At least then I’d get a say in how it’s run. Right now, I just have to pay the tax consequences for the “We asked around and nobody wants it” moments, without any real say in the matter.
Meanwhile, nobody seems to be able to answer the question I keep asking: If it’s ok for the City to spend millions of dollars to buy a cable company to compete with private enterprise, would it be ok for the City to spend a million or two to buy a KFC and compete with private enterprise? What’s the difference?
You guys keep forgetting the main point, the same as my rural wireless customers do. If the only game in town wasn’t there they’d have nothing because the big players don’t want to and don’t have to serve the marginal markets.
I had to hook up to Telus at my new house. I pay for 6 Mb service and I get 3 Mb (really 2.6) and there isn’t anything to be done about it. They told me I’d get 3 and pay the same as 6 in the cities when I signed up. We live in bunghole towns,they aren’t gonna spend millions to rewire.
And second the regulatory bodies don’t mean shit. Telus/Rogers?Bell OWN the gov’t lock stock and barrel. They won’t order them to do shit, and if they do it will work out that taxpayers fund it and not them.
Or you could be like some potential wireless customers who said it was too expensive slowed down when loaded up and Telus was coming and spent ten goddam years on dialup waiting and give smug looks today.
(and hey, this post took 2 minuted to post the reply with DSLs shitty upload speeds. Took seconds on wireless)
It was CItywest CEO Rob Brown’s response when asked when Citywest would have data and text services for its mobile phones.
A few months later, Rogers came to town and took away many of Citywest’s customers. Because you know, Citywest asked around and nobody really wanted text or data on their phones. I don’t think Citywest’s mobile division has ever recovered, have they?
No, I get your point. Can’t speak for others. I do get that bandwidth is expensive, I certainly do.
I just think you’d have a different perspective if your broke city decided to use tax dollars to buy a company (without even asking taxpayers), and then started competing with your business. I think you’d be singing a different tune then.
The city built the phone company years ago so there would be phone service here in Rupert. It has always made money and subsitized the taxes for the people. None of our tax dollars go to Citytel, it is the other way around. All the cell services go through Citywest■s equipment so the City makes money of of all cell usage whether its own or someone elses company. Up untill a few years ago the phone company gave the city $2 million a year to of set your taxes.
So where did Citywest get the money to buy a cable company?
Honest question here: Where did the $20 million that the City ‘loaned’ Citywest go? Was that $20 million not tax dollars? Honest question, I don’t know the answer. Can someone clarify?
My question still stands, though. If the City were to buy a KFC, you could still make the same argument. i.e.: It would make money for the City. So why doesn’t the city buy a KFC?
Or better yet, why doesn’t the city buy a KFC in Terrace, Kitimat, and Hazelton? Would you be in favour of that?
You borrow the money by using CityWest assets for the loan would be a good guess. KFC or what ever is not related to communication. So if sold, lets put 40 people out of work,get bad service and the prices would increase for the services. Once the city receives the cash it would be spent in no time with only some of the infastucture being repaired, and then see how high the taxes go when they need more money.
Or we continue writing it down until it has zero value and we lose the 40 jobs and continue to get crappy service and gain nothing.
Divident was 2 million,dropped to 1 million,will drop to zero million, then will need a loan of a million.
My family paid 300 a month to Citywest 2 years ago for cell service, internet and cable, and then we switched to Rogers because Citywest asked around and I guess figured nobody would want the most popular phone in the world. We now pay Citywest 150 and I am getting so pissed at the cable interuptions I will soon be down to 100 a month and can see the day when we don’t have a landline, and the internet will be fast enough off the phone that we will be completely rid of Citywest.
Unless you know someone or related to someone there why would anyone think keeping Citywest is a good idea?
I voted for 5 of the elected council and fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me and I will not vote for any of them again. Some of them said they would look into the matter that I believed and several months later we have heard nothing.
The 5 year projections must be so embarrassing off they dont want tp deal with it. Must be as accurate as their plan to have iPhones out by last x-mas, are they out yet?
Then what would be meant by a “loan forgiven” to Citywest? Isn’t that what the City Council did? Again, I don’t know for sure, and would like a clarification. Did the City loan Citywest money then forgive the loan?
Can you explain that to me? What does that $20 million ‘loan forgiveness’ mean?
The City of Prince should buy companies that are related to communication? Why? Should they buy a communications company in Smithers? Or Houston? What’s the cut off for you?
Should the City buy CFTK? Or a radio station? They’re related to communications too, right? Good deal! You’d be in favour of the City buying a TV station or a radio station in Terrace, Kitimat or Hazelton?
“Sold” doesn’t mean closed down. Don’t equate the two. It’s a profitable company, right? Why would a profitable company have to close down? Why do you assume anyone but City owners would fire everyone? Do you really believe that?
You mean the $20 million they’re asking us to borrow or raise taxes for to pay for a new Police & Fire building?
As someone has pointed out, if they even put the stated value of Citywest in a bank account, the city would get more money in interest than Citywest has been paying (or not paying) in dividends.
Realistically if citywest had just stuck to providing communications for prince rupert residents and used the tax subsidy to provide services that would otherwise not be there like they did in the past I highly doubt anyone would have a problem with citywest even if it was operating at a loss.
As it is they are unaccountable to the owners (the tax payers) went off and bought a cable company without telling anyone, refused data services, have piss poor customer service, believe their customers should pay more to get what they were told they were paying for (UBB).
In general citytel was once a gem but then they lost track of why they were started in the first place and started pissing off their customers. Now they need to go.
Every one should have guessed by now, that I’m OK that PR owns City West.
I also like the idea that they provide good jobs at good wages to primarily residents of PR.
I am also not philosophically opposed to gov. owning and providing any service to its citizens, whatever it may be, KFC, a ferry or otherwise. Whether they are profitable or not. If that is what the citizenry require or want.
You can see first hand in NW BC the interest that mega corps and Provincial and Federal govs have in supporting rural Canada. The best example of this is the forest industry. There are still millions in profits being made by the forest companies with minimal jobs created. All of this enabled by the stroke of a gov. pen.
[quote=“leroy”]Every one should have guessed by now, that I’m OK that PR owns City West.
I also like the idea that they provide good jobs at good wages to primarily residents of PR.[/quote]
So you’re OK with the city owning a constantly deepening pit hole, while the people at CityWest enjoy your hard-earned dollars while providing piss poor service? lol. When people like you are going to realize CityWest isn’t some city-owned profit making corporation like ENMAX and EPCOR.
Communism?
What does this have to do with CityWest being unfaithful to the voters of Prince Rupert and a blood sucker?
[quote=“leroy”]Every one should have guessed by now, that I’m OK that PR owns City West.
I also like the idea that they provide good jobs at good wages to primarily residents of PR.[/quote]
So you’re OK with the city owning a constantly deepening pit hole, while the people at CityWest enjoy your hard-earned dollars while providing piss poor service? lol. When people like you are going to realize CityWest isn’t some city-owned profit making corporation like ENMAX and EPCOR.
YEP
Communism?
No, it doesn’t work either.
What does this have to do with CityWest being unfaithful to the voters of Prince Rupert and a blood sucker?[/quote]
Your choice in service providers, mega corp or local company somewhat responsive to your criticism.
Government-owned local company, remember? You said that you think that government should own all local companies.
So I assume that all these businesses in Prince Rupert that the city doesn’t own all have terrible service right? Because only city-owned companies can have great service?
If Citywest were a local company, but not owned by the city, they’d have terrible service?
I think you’re wrong. I don’t think government should be competing with private enterprise.
So you’re OK with the city owning a constantly deepening pit hole, while the people at CityWest enjoy your hard-earned dollars while providing piss poor service? lol. When people like you are going to realize CityWest isn’t some city-owned profit making corporation like ENMAX and EPCOR.[/quote]
YEP[/quote]
I don’t even…
[quote]
No, it doesn’t work either.[/quote]
Government owning every single business in existence, which is what you believe in, is very much Communism.
[quote]
Your choice in service providers, mega corp or local company somewhat responsive to your criticism.[/quote]
Seen in the paper tonight ablout the budget for Prince Rupert for the coming year. I did not see anything in there about a divident from Citywest. When does Citywest inform the city what the dividend will be for the year?
Government owning every single business in existence, which is what you believe in, is very much Communism.
As you should know, Communism is only an economic theory, as is monetarism and monopoly capitalism.
I believe what you are referring to is the model created in Soviet Russia and that was a failure, further I never said every single business should be owned by gov. you are trying to put words in my mouth to further your argument.
[quote]
Your choice in service providers, mega corp or local company somewhat responsive to your criticism.[/quote]
I’m not trying, maybe you should explain these comments:
[quote=“leroy”]
Soooo,
the City should sell the airport, the sewers, the roads, the Digby ferry, the fire department, garbage collection, or just the businesses that might be profitable ?[/quote]
[quote=“leroy”]
So i imagine you wouldn’t be in favour of nationalizing the banks ?[/quote]
You seem to think any government corporations shouldn’t be privatised regardless it were making or losing money. Also, you seem to think governments should take excessive control on the economy. I don’t even get why you think municipal infrastructure, airport, and emergency services are a business.
