For those who have been following the “Yertle the Turtle” political messaging discussion. The actions of Mr.Stigant were purportedly supported by an arbitrator’s ruling on issues between the Cranbrook District Teacher’s Association / BCTF and BCPSEA / School District No. 5. The arbitrator’s order in the case has been set aside and the BCTF’s grievance has been allowed by the Court of Appeal for British Columbia.
The issues surrounding Freedom of Speech in the context of teaching and schools continues to attract national attention. This morning the CBC aired the following featured discussion on The Current:
And yes, about 18 minutes into the program Prince Rupert’s ‘Yertle the Turtle’ incident is raised. (Although in the mists of time and memory the facts seem to be a bit jumbled but remain - basically accurate).
Teacher’s Unions. What a group of self-serving, yellow bellied individuals. The direction they give their membership is shameful. And then they love to hide behind “We’re doing it for the children, think of the children” battle cry.
This is what they have done for children in today’s society … failed them and in a spectacular way.
As a rule I usually welcome new members to our forum, but I am not pleased with your introductory posts. In three posts you have condemned and insulted two groups of workers. This type of posting adds nothing to our forum.
As a rule I usually welcome new members to our forum, but I am not pleased with your introductory posts. In three posts you have condemned and insulted two groups of workers. This type of posting adds nothing to our forum.[/quote]
Now honestly, who have I more insulted. The PR FD and the BCTF or yourself? I obviously have a markedly different point of view from that of your own, but I am not about to state that your opinion is worthless. I believe that the majority of opinions are worth considering, even when at odds to my beliefs. If I am to make several kow-towing and butt smooching remarks in agreement with certain forum members, please advise me of to whom and how many before I’m allowed to express my opinion.
I had been a member of the PPWC for a decade BCGEU for 3 years, PSAC for another decade and for a short time, CLAC. They were all unions that protected the workers who needed to be let go and pushed the agendas of those in the Executive. The BCTF is no different, but they hold our children up as shields against criticism. I find that reprehensible.
[quote=“JackAnderson”]Teacher’s Unions. What a group of self-serving, yellow bellied individuals. The direction they give their membership is shameful. And then they love to hide behind “We’re doing it for the children, think of the children” battle cry.
This is what they have done for children in today’s society … failed them and in a spectacular way.
Your statements are strong but the link you provide has nothing to do with teachers unions. The boy is a hero but I don’t believe that his being reprimanded has anything to do with a labour group. Maybe board policy? I’m sure that those in charge are quietly admiring his actions but its probably wise if they don’t encourage it.
I have no problem with varying points of view. We here at HTMF encourage and value spirited, lively debates. However, you cross the line when you resort to name calling and needless insults. Insulting posts generally inflame and incite flame wars.
Please think about what you’re posting before you post it. That is, try to make a point without resorting to insults. I don’t mind that you dislike the PR FD and the Teacher’s union. You are entitled to your point of view and I support your right to express yourself.
Thanks for the reply.
[quote=“Crazy Train”]
Your statements are strong but the link you provide has nothing to do with teachers unions. The boy is a hero but I don’t believe that his being reprimanded has anything to do with a labour group. Maybe board policy? I’m sure that those in charge are quietly admiring his actions but its probably wise if they don’t encourage it.[/quote]
Board policy is not only set by the people on it, but by influence from the teacher’s representatives as well.
I view this as part of the “Don’t keep score during sports/there are no losers/everyone gets a participation medal” mindset. The instructors continue to create generations of sissies in order to prevent hurt feelings. And now some of those people are in there creating policies like this.
It is wise they don’t encourage heroism? Sure, let one kid slit another’s throat; heaven forbid anyone try to assist those who need help.
[quote=“Crazy Train”]
Your statements are strong but the link you provide has nothing to do with teachers unions. The boy is a hero but I don’t believe that his being reprimanded has anything to do with a labour group. Maybe board policy? I’m sure that those in charge are quietly admiring his actions but its probably wise if they don’t encourage it.[/quote]
Board policy is not only set by the people on it, but by influence from the teacher’s representatives as well.
I view this as part of the “Don’t keep score during sports/there are no losers/everyone gets a participation medal” mindset. The instructors continue to create generations of sissies in order to prevent hurt feelings. And now some of those people are in there creating policies like this.
It is wise they don’t encourage heroism? Sure, let one kid slit another’s throat; heaven forbid anyone try to assist those who need help.[/quote]
I don’t envy teachers these days. It seems that every other week there is another mass killing at a school or at the very least a devious plan to do others harm. How many of the kids that were killed died while actually trying to stop the attackers? I think that heroism is a terrific and admirable thing but how do you manage this as a teacher when there are real threats out there? You praise one kid for being a hero, tell him how proud you as a teacher are, which fuels other kids to do the same. Say this kid in Calgary is treated like a hero in his school by his teachers. Next week another kid comes in with a knife but this time the hero is not so lucky. He’s killed. When the investigators try to find out what happened they find that the teacher and school was at fault because they encouraged the situation by the way the handled the previous attack and treatment of that student. They didnt outright condemn it. We all love heroes but I just don’t think that teachers can encourage heroism in schools in today’s society.
I don’t envy teachers these days. It seems that every other week there is another mass killing at a school or at the very least a devious plan to do others harm. How many of the kids that were killed died while actually trying to stop the attackers? I think that heroism is a terrific and admirable thing but how do you manage this as a teacher when there are real threats out there? You praise one kid for being a hero, tell him how proud you as a teacher are, which fuels other kids to do the same. Say this kid in Calgary is treated like a hero in his school by his teachers. Next week another kid comes in with a knife but this time the hero is not so lucky. He’s killed. When the investigators try to find out what happened they find that the teacher and school was at fault because they encouraged the situation by the way the handled the previous attack and treatment of that student. They didnt outright condemn it. We all love heroes but I just don’t think that teachers can encourage heroism in schools in today’s society.[/quote]
Employing hysterically-charged statements that disaster is eminent effectively creates the desired result…nearly every single time. Paralysis by what-ifs.
Teachers (everywhere these days) have a really difficult, unenviable job…facing down mass murderers?
You don’t think this is just a tiny tad melodramatic? Emotionally over-the-top?
Employing hysterically-charged statements that disaster is eminent effectively creates the desired result…nearly every single time. Paralysis by what-ifs.
Teachers (everywhere these days) have a really difficult, unenviable job…facing down mass murderers?
You don’t think this is just a tiny tad melodramatic? Emotionally over-the-top?[/quote]
No, I don’t think it’s melodramatic, over the top. An extreme example perhaps but the point remains that teachers and schools can’t encourage heroism because it puts the students at risk and themselves in a position of liability. Unfortunately that is the world we live in these days…litigious. That’s why teachers such as in the Calgary example that was offered cant condone heroism in schools. If they say its ok for students to put themselves in positions of danger they’re screwed. Like I said before, I’m sure they are all quietly admiring this kids actions but can’t say it. Completely asinine to blame it on the teachers unions
No, I don’t think it’s melodramatic, over the top. An extreme example perhaps but the point remains that teachers and schools can’t encourage heroism because it puts the students at risk and themselves in a position of liability. Unfortunately that is the world we live in these days…litigious. That’s why teachers such as in the Calgary example that was offered cant condone heroism in schools. If they say its ok for students to put themselves in positions of danger they’re screwed. Like I said before, I’m sure they are all quietly admiring this kids actions but can’t say it. Completely asinine to blame it on the teachers unions[/quote]
Sorry, I think it is all bullshit. Pretty soon nobody is allowed to step in to anything because they are worried about breaking the rules or union direction. Remember the fishing boat that capsized, there were CG divers there within minutes and they refused to dive. There was a new regulation that prohibited it. So instead of rescuing, they hid behind the skirt of their union and waited hours for a military dive team to show up.
So they were told by their management not to attempt the rescue. The management set the regulations.
And somehow when they do what they’re told, “they hid behind the skirt of their union and waited hours” ? Huh?
How about “They hid behind the skirt of the management directives and regulations and waited hours” ? And were frustrated that their bosses and their bosses’ rules wouldn’t let them attempt a rescue?
Isn’t that more accurate?
Honest question here, because I love to see how people come to the conclusions that they express. You really think this is a union issue? Answer honestly, please.
The union pushed for this following the death of an RCMP diver earlier. The fact is there was a dive team refusing to break rules while a family was underwater. Whether you believe the union played a part or not is up to you. When we start making rules against heroism (for lack of a better word), I find it pathetic.
Is the word “heroic” an appropriate term to apply to this situation? I feel this junior manager (vice principal) inspired the word-smiths and twitters to action by bantering about the emotionally powerful term, heroic.
Then, if this boy had not acted as he had it appears there would have been no action. Follow me on this…
The teacher, in the very same room, did not notice the jabbing and poking going on. OK sure. This is entirely plausible.
The same teacher, in the very same room failed to notice one boy had put another into a headlock. Hmmm, this seems odd. Really odd.
The very same teacher, in the very same room was not alerted to multiple students voicing the presence of a knife. What?!! Really? Wait! What!!??
This teacher does happen to notice one boy tackling another in the room and notifies the office. Is this teacher just coming out of a coma?
The vice-principal (don’t worry, I got this) informs the boy and his mother that he should not be jumping in and acting like some hero. He should have alerted a teacher (or awaken one).
The big issue arising from all this is…teachers don’t want to promote heroics in school. Litigation, you know. What??
Yes, very easy to say after the fact. Anyway, I believe the union pushed for the regulation in the first place and we will have to just disagree on that point.
The big issue is a fully qualified dive team trying to decide if they should do something they have been trained for and done in the past. So while everyday citizens (without rules) might be excused for not going under because they were scared shitless, these guys asked themselves if it contravened the collective agreement. Sad.
Again, you see a union thing. Maybe that’s how you see the world.
It was a law. It wasn’t negotiated, and had nothing to do with unions. The RCMP diver died, and this regulation was brought in, not by unions, but by the (right-wing) government of the day. In response to a non-unionized death, BTW.
It wasn’t part of any collective agreement.
The divers didn’t, as you’ve stated “hide behind the union skirt” – they were following their bosses’s orders, and the law.
Now you say that the divers “asked themselves if it contravened the collective agreement” – which isn’t correct either. They were following orders not to dive without backup.
Whether they were in a union or not is irrelevant. If they were non-unionized RCMP or Navy divers, for example, they still would follow orders.
Translation: After lots of internet searching, you couldn’t find any unions pushing for the regulation in the first place. Because they didn’t. It was a recommendation after the investigation into the (non-unionized) diver’s death.
No, unions didn’t push for the original regulation. Unions called it crazy that the divers weren’t allowed to dive. No, divers didn’t 'hide behind the union skirt" – they followed orders. No the divers didn’t “ask themselves if it contravened the collective agreement.”