A Law and Order like moment in the Vancouver courtroom today.
what’s that sound from the TV show, dunt duh?
Oh by the way we “just” found this internal memo of interest to the court…
vancouversun.com/Braidwood+I … story.html
It’s always the cover ups that come back to haunt eh…
Quote from Vancouver Sun: “Lawyer Helen Roberts, who represents the RCMP, broke into tears as she told the inquiry commissioner - retired judge Thomas Braidwood - that Bent was mistaken in his e-mail - the officers did not formulate a plan to use the Taser as soon as possible.”
Oh my oh my. Now what would possess a usually cold as ice water lawyer to go all teary-eyed? Frustration? Exasperation? Or just having to stand in front of an eminent commissioner representing an institution that is either incapable of knowing the truth or is incapable of telling the truth? Hard to tell which. Not an auspicious day for The Force.
Every day there’s more and more evidence of a coverup by The Force.
I’m certain that everyone involved wishes that they had just charged the 4 officers with murder.
It would have saved the RCMP’s reputation. But as more and more is learned about the lengths they’ve gone through to cover up information, most Canadians have grown to not trust the RCMP anymore.
Yeah I have to say that unfortunately it’s not surprising to me that there may have been a coverup.
It still irks me to no end that in an international airport they couldn’t find either a translator or someone that spoke Polish. Even if they had to call someone to come to the airport - then I bet this whole thing could have been avoided. Such a sad story.
This is one of the saddest days. Both my father (OPP) and my grandfather (RCMP) spent a portion their lives as police officers and left for different reasons. The one thing I learned from my dad was, like everything else in this world, there are good and bad men and women in uniform.
Now we know that RCMP top brass held nothing but contempt towards Canadians by willfully withholding vital information that would have changed the image, scope and verdict of the inquiry.
We condemn criminals for contempt of court. How should this proceed? Perhaps it is time to have a full-on, independent citizens watchdog agency that can check and balance the RCMP. For it is no more clear than today that the RCMP is not capable or willing to hold itself accountable.
[quote=“BakerWriter”]
Now we know that RCMP top brass held nothing but contempt towards Canadians by willfully withholding vital information that would have changed the image, scope and verdict of the inquiry. [/quote]
Not just the top brass.
Practically every RCMP officer that has worked on this case has withheld information.
The 4 officers themselves lied about practically every aspect of the incident. They lied to everyone from the first responders to the current commission.
The homicide detectives who investigated and caught the 4 officers in obvious lies, they also covered it up. They ignored the fact that the statements given by the officers directly contradicted the video.
The spokespersons who talked to the media deliberately lied about the incident, even when they knew they were lying.
This is a heck of a lot deeper than a few rotten apples.
Agreed. But the tone of any organization is set top-down.
MiG, my disappointment begins with top brass. They decided how this play would be written and directed. The players (those middle men you speak of) can and should be punished for their poor performance but we must begin with those who produced this travesty.
I know this sounds like I am making light of this but I want to make it clear that I am not. These are dark and disappointing days in Canada. Our police force has let us down.
A few select members of our police force let us down. I’m not making light of it either, but let’s not drag the entirety of the RCMP through the dirt–most members, whatever their rank, do their job with honesty and integrity day-by-day. It’s a shame that a few members have cast such a bad shadow over the organization.
eccentric you think this is a isolated event, well its not, it happens all the time.
[quote=“eccentric”]
A few select members of our police force let us down. [/quote]
Namely, every member who had anything to do with the Dzienkanski case.
Every person who has touched this file has been dishonest, lied, or blatantly covered something up. This is from the actual 4 officers involved all the way up the chain.
It’s a systemic problem with the RCMP, that the first reaction is to cover up, to deny, to defend the obvious mistakes, rather than just own up to them.
How many RCMP members have spoken out? Zero. If they are honest and hard working, then why accept these “few rotten apples” in their organization? Why defend them to the point that they themselves are covering things up?
The entirety of the RCMP needs to be dragged through the dirt, because the entire RCMP is responsible. Not one of them has said this is wrong.
What’s obvious from the daily revelations is that the default mode of the RCMP is to cover up and to lie when they make mistakes. It’s in the culture.
I imagine it’s the same type of loyalty that might cause you or I to tell a lie to protect a friend or colleague. Smart? No. Legal? No.
Again, though–this doesn’t and shouldn’t be used as evidence for the argument that “all RCMP members are bad.”
[quote=“eccentric”]
Which is a small percentage of the RCMP as a whole.[/quote]
So show me the one RCMP officer who has spoken up and said that the reputation of the RCMP is more important than those 4 officers. Every single one I’ve spoken to has defended them. 100% of RCMP officers haven’t spoken up about this.
I don’t think that’s what is being said here. I know some RCMP officers, and I certainly don’t think they are “bad.”
I think the culture of the RCMP is that you lie and cover up rather than admit wrongdoing, even if you’re not directly involved.
I think there are numerous cases now that show this is a pattern.
I have also met some great RCMP officers in my days but yes there are still the John Waynes out there who seemed to have fallen of their horses and got serious brain damage. I have already seen a few since moving here a week or two ago who just walk around like fishery officers and have bad attitudes.
It’s not their place–did staff at CHSS speak out against Mr. Kolesar after he was convicted?
I certainly don’t defend the RCMP officers in this situation, not after all that has been uncovered–but I’d still defend the power RCMP members have to make judgement calls… Maybe that’s what the RCMP officers you talked to have in mind?
MiG; eccentric is an ass for bringing up Mr. Kolesar and in my opinion trying to start a flame war, or bait you. Pay no attention to his stupid antics.
I cant believe he would stoop so low and put two different situations with two different outcomes into this thread.
I know almost nothing about the Kolesar example that eccentric cited, so I have trouble understanding the sensitivities. What I read into his comment is that expecting individual mounties to speak up is not that realistic. As soon as an employee walks into their workplace they pretty much surrender their right of free speech, and if they are a public servant it may be constrained to some extent even outside of the workplace.
What strikes me about the various controversies that seem to perpetually dog the RCMP in recent years is that the chain of command - who should speak out - seems to always circle the wagons so tightly against public scrutiny and criticism that The Force looses credibility, which erodes public confidence. One would think that there would be the occasional mea culpa or concession that training, policies or procedures need to be changed, so that members will do better in future, but those admissions never seem to be forthcoming.
When an individual mountie is found to have committed wrongdoing, as occasionally happens, they may well deserve whatever punishment is meted out, but in the absence of any sharing of responsibility by those in charge they also come across as being hung out to dry. The high road seems to be the road less travelled by the high command.
The reasons for that are no doubt complex, but a recurrent theme in the controversies seems to be that the RCMP hierarchy comes across as being pre-occupied, not with lessons learned or continuous improvement, but with managing public relations - kill a guy who is lost in Vancouver airport so send a team to Poland to see if some dirt can be dug up on the victim. If criticism is made by a citizen issue a categorical denial. Over and over that seems to be the preferred response.
In this regard the subject line of the email that was belatedly released to commissioner Braidwood is telling: ‘Media Strategy — Release of the YVR Video’. The focus of the information sent by one senior officer to another was not internal fact finding to support their legal counsel and the commission’s work, but how the inquiry will play out in the media and what can be done to manage public perceptions.
theprovince.com/Email+transc … story.html
RCMP officers have had no problem speaking out publicly in support of the 4 officers. If there is some limitation on their speech, then why do they have no problem speaking in support?
Even here on HTMF, you’ve had a couple of RCMP officers post about the Dziekanski incident. Individuals of all ranks have been quoted in the media over and over, always in support of the 4 officers. Now that the extend of the wrongdoing and coverup is apparent, you’re saying they’re no longer able to speak out?
You see how that reflects on the entire force, right?
It has been very obvious from the start that someone screwed up real bad and yes it the usual format where someone in a chair made a call where they had a briefing and we end up with a giant Web. This way the higher up do not get their pretty little badges and ribbons tarnished.
Didn’t one of the 4 officers literally kill someone when he was recklessly drinking and driving? Obviously he isn’t fit to be a police officer, if he ever was.
I get that some believe this is a poison coursing through the whole RCMP body. I don’t agree. I do not believe every police officer wants bad things for their community nor do they want to sit idly by and be tarred with the same brush these four have.
The problem is many of these “good” officers are dedicated to the RCMP cause and will not spend their own time slagging off the body they themselves represent.
But wait to see how many speak up and defend these four and the way this inquiry has been handled. Those that do will have questions to answer as well.
However, if they remain silent, such silence should be considered a form of condemnation in my opinion.