Questions and comments for mayor and council

General Forums Prince Rupert Forum
21

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]@bthedog
Yeah, maybe you are 3 decades in Rupert. It means you are likley old, likely were born to a generation when buying a home was a realisitic expectation and have the amount of capital younger generations simply don’t have. Anyway, you ain’t got a clue. Your comments prove it. You are a bury your head in the selfish sand type.

I’m fairly well off. I made a little money teaching, and have a tidy little business that doesn’t require that I work that hard in my retirement. It’s nice to be in my position. But my grandkids don’t have it as easy as I did. They struggle to make ends meet because the cost of everything continues to grow, and their wages stagnate. That’s an economy that simply doesn’t work. But people like you keep pitching your head in the sand and “i’m all right. All the people in my vast network of friends are all right. It must be that everyone is all right…excpet for those who are morally deficient. They don’t like to work hard.”

As for the port-related activity, are you telling me that the analysts, information management specialists, public relations officers, shipping agents, border control agents, truck drivers, locomotive drivers, rail yard workers, carpenters, boilermakers, masons, plumbers, human resources specialists, bookkeepers, accountants, accounting clerks, financial advisers/specialists, marketing specialists, secretaries, receptionists, security guards, coast guards, vessel pilots, commodity inspectors, environmental officers, safety specialists/coordinators are making longshore $$? Get real. They make a fraction of the longshore money and are more in line with middle-class labour. Those people aren’t super rich like the Local 505.

And you forgot: the guys at Tim Horton’s, the guys at Subway and McD’s = all port-related jobs. Port employees need to eat, right? Am I right? Yeah, I’m right.[/quote]

Sounds like a bit of whining against local 505. These people that you mention may not make quite as much as longshoremen but they do make good money, especially if they are union which many of them are. But even if they aren’t union they are making a very good wage.

22

How do you define: a very good wage?

$50 k per year?

23

So, I am wondering what was the question(s) for Mayor and Council.

Was it how was the City going to make housing more affordable? Sure they can allow higher density and smaller houses but that is not really the problem. The cost of producing a basic house is probably about $200 per square foot. A 1,000 square foot house (okay it is tiny but that is what we want - right?) is still going to be around $200,000. If you are making less than $40,000 it is going to take a long time, if ever, for you to save up a down payment. If you are earning less than $40,000 and have one child, I suspect that you are living a pretty cheque-to-cheque existence and would not have much, if any money, to sock away in a down payment fund. Probably the only way you are going to own a home is to upgrade your skills so that you can obtain a better paying job. Alternatively you could leave town and go somewhere where the entry level house is less than what it is in Prince Rupert.

Do you want the City to provide subsidized housing? Not likely to occur given the taxes we already pay.

24

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]How do you define: a very good wage?

$50 k per year?[/quote]

Do you actually know how much some of these folks make ?? If not, don’t assume.

25

[quote=“bthedog”]

[quote=“Astro”]
so 50 % or more work for the port in some way or form… 6000 people hmmm better check your math just saying…[/quote]

I think you better check your math…6000 is half of 12000 people who live in PR…half of the working population (8000) is roughly 4000 which is about the number employed directly/indirectly by port activities in the PR Area.[/quote]

not going to argue semantics with you, but you said and I quote “half the city (or more) works for the port in some capacity” see what you said half the city and half the city is 6000 people. you said it not me my math is right. now your saying
working population of 8000 and 4000 work for the port, i think the number is closer to 2500 to 3000 people. Can someone with the actual numbers post, thanks…

26

[quote=“Pantagruel”]So, I am wondering what was the question(s) for Mayor and Council.

Was it how was the City going to make housing more affordable? Sure they can allow higher density and smaller houses but that is not really the problem. The cost of producing a basic house is probably about $200 per square foot. A 1,000 square foot house (okay it is tiny but that is what we want - right?) is still going to be around $200,000. If you are making less than $40,000 it is going to take a long time, if ever, for you to save up a down payment. If you are earning less than $40,000 and have one child, I suspect that you are living a pretty cheque-to-cheque existence and would not have much, if any money, to sock away in a down payment fund. Probably the only way you are going to own a home is to upgrade your skills so that you can obtain a better paying job. Alternatively you could leave town and go somewhere where the entry level house is less than what it is in Prince Rupert.

Do you want the City to provide subsidized housing? Not likely to occur given the taxes we already pay.[/quote]

I think densification will help solve the issue when the city to allows for laneway/small housing. Unfortunately it takes time to change bylaws and that is something we don’t have.

I don’t want a mayor and council that talks about forming a housing committee, we don’t have time for that either.

Small energy-efficient homes of around 600sq ft can be built for about $80k, I know this for fact…but developers will sell you that house for whatever mark-up the market can handle. Perhaps the way around unethical builders/developers is the development of more Co-op housing here, but whether the city will allow for lands to be sold or developed without getting top dollar might be an issue with our current Mayor and council…

27

[quote=“bthedog”]

I never won a “lottery”, I went to school and educated myself and paid my dues in lower paying jobs (in retail, restaurant and my current field) for years, earning valuable experience…all of which lead to my current job status. So please don’t tell me I “won a lottery”. Also, just because I want an option buy a middle-income apartment or condo does not mean I am better than anyone else, I never once alluded to that, so please don’t speak for me.

People in retail (who don’t want to be there) clearly are in retail because they lack SKILLS to obtain better employment…it is very hard to get a job in the port without some sort of trades/professional education/training. Same goes for education and healthcare, two other huge employers in this city.

Since the majority of this town does not work in retail (or low paying jobs) I will call those people the average joes, the average in Prince Rupert is a middle income job.[/quote]

You’ve obviously forgot what it was to struggle to pay rent etc when you admit yourself you worked in low paying jobs while you worked to better yourself. Some people HAVE won the lottery when you look at the education levels of some of the Longshoremen in particular.

I did work one of those high-paying “port-related” jobs earning over 70k a year and bought my house when the prices were reasonable, but with house prices as they are now I would not be able to afford to buy the same property on that same income. I do get what you’re saying about how there are not many middle options available for those that can’t afford a 300k house, but there’s even more in this town who can’t afford a 200k house either so they are at the mercy of the landlords in this town more so than you.

28

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]@bthedog
Yeah, maybe you are 3 decades in Rupert. It means you are likley old, likely were born to a generation when buying a home was a realisitic expectation and have the amount of capital younger generations simply don’t have. Anyway, you ain’t got a clue. Your comments prove it. You are a bury your head in the selfish sand type.
[/quote]

Wow you could not be more wrong with this statement about me. I am not old, I am in my early 30’s (well I guess to people in their 20’s and teens I might now be considered old) and I bought my home in my early to mid 20’s by saving money for a down payment (you know, rather than being reckless, I saved for years) and getting a mortgage. There is nothing unrealistic about that. I think I purchased my home probably the same way most people in this city have (by saving and getting a mortgage).

[quote]
I’m fairly well off. I made a little money teaching, and have a tidy little business that doesn’t require that I work that hard in my retirement. It’s nice to be in my position. But my grandkids don’t have it as easy as I did. They struggle to make ends meet because the cost of everything continues to grow, and their wages stagnate. That’s an economy that simply doesn’t work. But people like you keep pitching your head in the sand and “i’m all right. All the people in my vast network of friends are all right. It must be that everyone is all right…excpet for those who are morally deficient. They don’t like to work hard.”[/quote]

Sorry but I never said anyone was morally deficient and I never said “everyone” is alright. I did say my world of friends/acquaintances/family are doing well for themselves (and perhaps “well” to me means something not quite as “extravagant” for you since you say you are “fairly well off”). I am not keeping my head in the sand, I am aware that in ANY city there is going to be struggle…what I am not prepared to do is blame that on lack of job opportunities or lack of handouts from whatever source. There is a ton of opportunity in this city and I have seen people turn nothing into everything through hard work, struggle/sacrafice and education/training, whether you (or your grandkids) choose to see it another way is totally your own opinion.

Also I know cost of living has gone up and I know things are expensive…but I still see the North Coast as a HUGE bargain to people my age in their 30’s and 20’s (hell ANY age!), compared to some other places, especially the Lower Mainland/Okanagan/Vancouver Island area where a lot of people my age like to live.

[quote]
As for the port-related activity, are you telling me that the analysts, information management specialists, public relations officers, shipping agents, border control agents, truck drivers, locomotive drivers, rail yard workers, carpenters, boilermakers, masons, plumbers, human resources specialists, bookkeepers, accountants, accounting clerks, financial advisers/specialists, marketing specialists, secretaries, receptionists, security guards, coast guards, vessel pilots, commodity inspectors, environmental officers, safety specialists/coordinators are making longshore $$? Get real. They make a fraction of the longshore money and are more in line with middle-class labour. Those people aren’t super rich like the Local 505.[/quote]

I don’t know why you continually put words in my mouth, but I never ONCE said that these positions make what longshoremen make (and just so you know, there are a lot of people in those other positions that make MUCH more than some longshoremen make)…I will argue though that probably close to ALL of those position make in excess of $50,000-60,000 a year, the average probably being closer to 75,000 to 80,000 a year, which I would say is a good, decent salary, one that can easily support the type of expenses that living in Rupert brings. Since you are “fairly well off” maybe the prospect of a 60,000-80,000 salary is considered “low” to you…but to someone working in retail, it is huge improvement on what they make and would lift them out of the financial hardships they are in.

[quote]
And you forgot: the guys at Tim Horton’s, the guys at Subway and McD’s = all port-related jobs. Port employees need to eat, right? Am I right? Yeah, I’m right.[/quote]

Technically, yah I guess you are right…but I am talking about people who are employed in fields that have a more hands-on approach to exporting/importing of good through the port. You are truly reaching with your Subway/Tim Horton’s analogy…I am not reaching with my listing of jobs.

If there is one thing you are consistent @ TerriblePerson, it is your wildly inaccurate way of interpreting what I actually am saying.

29

[quote=“Astro”]

[quote=“bthedog”]

I think you better check your math…6000 is half of 12000 people who live in PR…half of the working population (8000) is roughly 4000 which is about the number employed directly/indirectly by port activities in the PR Area.

not going to argue semantics with you, but you said and I quote “half the city (or more) works for the port in some capacity” see what you said half the city and half the city is 6000 people. you said it not me my math is right. now your saying
working population of 8000 and 4000 work for the port, i think the number is closer to 2500 to 3000 people. Can someone with the actual numbers post, thanks…[/quote]

Oh sorry Astro…when I said “half the town works for the port” I assumed any normal person with a functioning brain would understand I did not mean babies, toddlers, school aged children, disabled individuals and senior citizens, you know the normal groups of people who would not normally be considered part of the work force.

Come on now…

30

[quote=“dafaceofanangel”]

I never won a “lottery”, I went to school and educated myself and paid my dues in lower paying jobs (in retail, restaurant and my current field) for years, earning valuable experience…all of which lead to my current job status. So please don’t tell me I “won a lottery”. Also, just because I want an option buy a middle-income apartment or condo does not mean I am better than anyone else, I never once alluded to that, so please don’t speak for me.

People in retail (who don’t want to be there) clearly are in retail because they lack SKILLS to obtain better employment…it is very hard to get a job in the port without some sort of trades/professional education/training. Same goes for education and healthcare, two other huge employers in this city.

Since the majority of this town does not work in retail (or low paying jobs) I will call those people the average joes, the average in Prince Rupert is a middle income job.

You’ve obviously forgot what it was to struggle to pay rent etc when you admit yourself you worked in low paying jobs while you worked to better yourself. Some people HAVE won the lottery when you look at the education levels of some of the Longshoremen in particular.

I did work one of those high-paying “port-related” jobs earning over 70k a year and bought my house when the prices were reasonable, but with house prices as they are now I would not be able to afford to buy the same property on that same income. I do get what you’re saying about how there are not many middle options available for those that can’t afford a 300k house, but there’s even more in this town who can’t afford a 200k house either so they are at the mercy of the landlords in this town more so than you.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying and I am not saying the city does not need affordable housing. I also do get it that not ALL high paying jobs are the results of education and or training…some people do luck out (for whatever reason) and get these jobs (like unskilled labour positions that pay 36-40 bucks an hr), and I get that it can be frustrating to others.

I am just advocating that there is ALSO a need to provide for more middle-income housing options as well…there are people who want to retire here in a nicer condo that cannot because there is no housing available. These are people who are going to bring their retirement money to another city that can provide them with the type of housing they desire. It would be a huge loss to this community to lose our baby-boomer population who are reitred, getting ready to retire or will be in the next 5-10 years, because there is no longer sufficient housing for them to retire into. There is a LARGE growing group of people in this city who are facing this dilemma. These people deserve attention as well, they are very important to the well-being of this community.

Affordable housing for lower income is needed for sure…but we can’t simply ignore the needs of everyone else…and people who are not considered lower income should not be faulted for wanting to improve their own quality of life. That is all I am saying.

31

@bthedog

I feel like we are running around in circles. I don’t think I am misinterpreting what you originally were saying. I think you are backtracking.

But its truce time.

And I agree that there is a need for middle-income housing. I wonder if developers are reading in this, because both you and me could use a home that isn’t filled with mould.

32

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]@bthedog

I feel like we are running around in circles. I don’t think I am misinterpreting what you originally were saying. I think you are backtracking.

But its truce time.

And I agree that there is a need for middle-income housing. I wonder if developers are reading in this, because both you and me could use a home that isn’t filled with mould.[/quote]

loll waving a white flag over here too :smile:

I think developers are listening, but the city from what I gather is not selling it’s land to speculators and there doesn’t seem to be much land available for sale here for developers to come in and build on either.

Projects like Digby Towers will not get taken on until the owners know for sure where we are going with the LNG here. Perhaps it was just a holding for the current owners as a tax write-off…One thing is for sure, regardless of who owns that building - once we get the announcement on the LNG the tower will be remodeled to a very high standard and probably sold off as condos imo. Does anyone remember how many suites it has in it?