Prince Rupert Fire Department

[crazy_Horse]

[quote=“Crazy Train”]

[quote=“seaweed”]The problem tax payers have here, is not what they do or how they do it but more with how many are paid to do it.
For example , in cities like Colwood or Langford there are 36-60 volunteers that are members of the first
responders working with a very small core of life long union firefighters.[/quote]

“As for going volunteers, the city have been trying to get volunteers for years.”

" You know back when our Fire Dept. had auxiliary members, they’d start off with 5 at the beginning at year. At the end, they’d have maybe 1 left. Not enough “excitement” for them. The thing is, people aren’t willing to work for free, under the circumstances any more."[/quote]

I find that hard to believe, given most other similar sized cities find volunteers, even tiny Port Edward.

I made my opinions known last time this topic was debated and I am not going to rehash them. But the tax payers of Prince Rupert should compare their tax loads and city payrolls to those of other small cities and decide if they are getting good value.

[system]

[quote=“crazy Horse”]

@Crazy Train

[quote=“seaweed”]The problem tax payers have here, is not what they do or how they do it but more with how many are paid to do it.
For example , in cities like Colwood or Langford there are 36-60 volunteers that are members of the first
responders working with a very small core of life long union firefighters.[/quote]

“As for going volunteers, the city have been trying to get volunteers for years.”

" You know back when our Fire Dept. had auxiliary members, they’d start off with 5 at the beginning at year. At the end, they’d have maybe 1 left. Not enough “excitement” for them. The thing is, people aren’t willing to work for free, under the circumstances any more."

I find that hard to believe, given most other similar sized cities find volunteers, even tiny Port Edward.

I made my opinions known last time this topic was debated and I am not going to rehash them. But the tax payers of Prince Rupert should compare their tax loads and city payrolls to those of other small cities and decide if they are getting good value.[/quote]

You reminded me of a recent local news item. It’s worth a look.

cftktv.com/news/story.aspx?ID=1800172

[crazy_Horse]

Even a turnout of 6 for a village of less than 600 isn’t bad. PR should be able to come up with 30-40, like other similar sized cities. If recruitment is really a big issue, then maybe they have to look at a pay per call for volunteers or auxiliaries. And there seems to be a misconception that volunteers are somehow less qualified or less abled than a full time paid service. But look at the North Shore Rescue team. All volunteers, and I bet they save more lives and risk themselves more often than anybody.

[mcsash]

to be honest…I don’t think the shrinking tax base can be construed to be significant enough to employ a FULL time FD…maybe 2 guys on each team with the emphasize based on volunteers…it would be a considerable savings to the tax payer…

[hitest]

I am thankful for our fire department. I like things just the way they are.

[system]

My impression based on what I’ve read is:

1. They have tried to establish a volunteer or auxiliary department.

2. They have had trouble getting and keeping these people.

3. Other fire departments have trouble finding and keeping these people as well.

This issue has been beaten to death over the past couple of years with good arguments by those with varying viewpoints. The facts are clear.

[G-spot]

@crazy Horse

Even a turnout of 6 for a village of less than 600 isn’t bad. PR should be able to come up with 30-40, like other similar sized cities. If recruitment is really a big issue, then maybe they have to look at a pay per call for volunteers or auxiliaries. And there seems to be a misconception that volunteers are somehow less qualified or less abled than a full time paid service. But look at the North Shore Rescue team. All volunteers, and I bet they save more lives and risk themselves more often than anybody.

I think you should start the volunteer fire dept off on the right foot and volunteer

[crazy_Horse]

[quote=“G-spot”]

@crazy Horse

Even a turnout of 6 for a village of less than 600 isn’t bad. PR should be able to come up with 30-40, like other similar sized cities. If recruitment is really a big issue, then maybe they have to look at a pay per call for volunteers or auxiliaries. And there seems to be a misconception that volunteers are somehow less qualified or less abled than a full time paid service. But look at the North Shore Rescue team. All volunteers, and I bet they save more lives and risk themselves more often than anybody.

I think you should start the volunteer fire dept off on the right foot and volunteer [/quote]

Well the commute would be a little much, my response time would be measured in days not minutes! And if the consensus of the people paying the bill is status quo, then so be it. But if I lived in a financially strapped city and was taxed as high as the homeowners and business owners of PR, and then read an article like the one linked below, I would be looking for change.

thenorthernview.com/news/162374506.html

[seaweed]

@hitest

I am thankful for our fire department. I like things just the way they are.

Isn’t that the mindset that has got PR into the financial difficulties they now find themselves.

[PLA]

@seaweed

Isn’t that the mindset that has got PR into the financial difficulties they now find themselves.

CityWest isn’t an essential emergency service, silly.

You also have a public works department that does f*** all.

But seriously, with all the run down fire traps and the undetermined amount of idiot drivers Rupert has, I find it unconvincing that the city need to cheap out on protective services.

[rinkster]

As someone who has been a volunteer firefighter working in both a full volunteer unit, (servicing a pop. of 5000) and a volunteer/full time unit (servicing about 14 000) I’m guessing there may be some legislation provincially of federally on how a department is staffed dependant on the population it services, and/or the type and amount of heavy industry that is serviced.

About 6 years ago there was a change to legislation when I was in the volunteer/full time unit in Portage la Prairie Mb. We had to go from 2 to 3 full time employees because of our population base. Can’t remember at what level of gov’t the was implemented by.

Also all volunteer firefighter units I know pay their responders to some extent.

[PHarry]

Maybe we should start having volunteer health care workers right? Because I’m sure if they put their mind to it they could perform just as well as a trained professional. How about volunteer commercial airplane pilots? A couple rounds of flight simulator and we’re good to go!

Yes volunteers in the fire service are a great addition to full time paid firefighters. However, it is nothing but ignorant to say that volunteers could do just as good a job as trained men and women who have worked their asses off to attain the full time firefighter position that is a very competitive one in Canada.
Yes, we are the only fully manned fire department in the northwest. However, we also provide mutual aid to terrace in case of an emergency. They do not provide it to us. Also, keep in mind we have ridley and fairview terminals which both process quite large structures. Those terminals are both going to be expanding more and more as we go through the years.

Prince Rupert had initially re opened their volunteer program at the fire dept. in 2005 after being shut down since 1980. During the time it was once again active (which lasted less than 2 years) the city had gone through over 30 aux’s who had come and gone. The city once again shut down the volunteer program because it was just costing them extra money and there was no return for the investment…

[Kispiox]

news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/09 … ed-cities/

Interesting article. Here are some quotes:

Road workers get pink slips and librarians get salary cuts, but firefighters have often ridden through tough economic times with steady pay and untouched staffing levels. But in an age of fireproofing and smoke detectors, increasingly idle fire stations are proving a tempting target for belt-tightening cities across Canada. As firefighters hit back with warnings of untended blazes and trapped families, however, the struggle to reform Canadian firefighting is not looking pretty.

In other words, while fire departments may typically be expensive and overstaffed, making them reasonable cutback targets for cities with strained budgets, the public retains a reflexive fear of their homes going up in flames. Add to that our admiration for the heroes in helmets, and firehalls have become one of the most sensitive areas for budget-conscious politicians.

Budget grandstanding by Toronto firefighters has particularly irked the city’s paramedics, who are often beaten to medical emergencies by the better-staffed and better-funded fire department, only to see Toronto’s bravest do little more than direct traffic.

“What we’ve found is that fire has only been able to provide any relevant medical intervention 2% of the time,” Toronto EMS union president Geoff MacBride told the Post in January.

“They essentially have the same skills as a lifeguard and we’re basically sending four very well-paid lifeguards in a very expensive truck to a scene that requires highly trained paramedics to provide definitive care,” he added.

Like its counterparts across the country, Vancouver firefighters spend the lion’s share of their time on medical calls, but instead of zooming through the downtown on full-size pumper trucks, they make medical calls in specially-equipped pickup trucks.

According to Chief McKearney, it is the wave of the future.

“I talk to my counterparts across the country and they’re moving this way; to have firefighters move into smaller response units while still having the capability to respond to a fire and perform other duties,” he said.

[hitest]

@Kispiox

In other words, while fire departments may typically be expensive and overstaffed, making them reasonable cutback targets for cities with strained budgets, the public retains a reflexive fear of their homes going up in flames. Add to that our admiration for the heroes in helmets, and firehalls have become one of the most sensitive areas for budget-conscious politicians.

Bullshit. I will gladly pay the toll to have a professional rescue my child when my house is burning.

[system]

There is certainly a valid argument for cutting the fire department in Prince Rupert but it also seems that there is just as valid of an argument to maintain it at its current capacity. Seems like its a matter of priorities. When the shit hits the fan (and it does happen) its nice to know that there are some highly trained people ready to help those who need it. Doesn’t do much for reducing my taxes or paving roads but it provides jobs and keeps us safe.

I have an old friend in the lower mainland who worked as a fireman until he retired a few years ago. He’s shared many stories with me over the years and it was enlighteneing to learn what he and his colleagues had to deal with. Fire, death, brutality, accidents. He even told me about the fear of drug labs being booby trapped because they sometimes had to go to fires and emergencies at these places. I suppose this insight has given me a different vantage point in which to look at the fire service but I see them (police and paramedics too) as being on the front lines for all of the shit that goes on in our society. They all deserve our support and recognition.

[kbrentzen]

[quote=“hitest”]

@Kispiox

In other words, while fire departments may typically be expensive and overstaffed, making them reasonable cutback targets for cities with strained budgets, the public retains a reflexive fear of their homes going up in flames. Add to that our admiration for the heroes in helmets, and firehalls have become one of the most sensitive areas for budget-conscious politicians.

Bullshit. I will gladly pay the toll to have a professional rescue my child when my house is burning.[/quote]

Me too! I will also gladly pay the toll to have a professional rescue my family and hopefully, save my home too. Not to mention, they are often first on scene of an accident or traumatic health event. Firefighters ROCK!

[drummerboy]

@PHarry

Maybe we should start having volunteer health care workers right? Because I’m sure if they put their mind to it they could perform just as well as a trained professional. How about volunteer commercial airplane pilots? A couple rounds of flight simulator and we’re good to go.

Ha, ha, nice apples and oranges. Health care workers and commercial pilots are on the job 24/7. There is no comparison at all.

[PLA]

@drummerboy

Ha, ha, nice apples and oranges. Health care workers and commercial pilots are on the job 24/7. There is no comparison at all.

…

[smelly-cat]

How is comparing commercial pilots and healthcare workers to firemen apples to oranges? Last time I checked, emergency services were on the clock 24/7. I’d rather know my city is protected by 24/7 emergency response services than have the option to take the red eye to Hong Kong.

[drummerboy]

@smelly-cat

How is comparing commercial pilots and healthcare workers to firemen apples to oranges? Last time I checked, emergency services were on the clock 24/7. I’d rather know my city is protected by 24/7 emergency response services than have the option to take the red eye to Hong Kong.

I meant actually working. There are always planes coming and going. There are always sick people being taken care of. There are few fires and accidents and, thus, a lot of time spent idle, collecting good coin. And, hey, guess what? Volunteer fire departments work just fine.