Petronas LNG Re-Design: No Dredging, Flora Bank Untouched

Gasland is a 2010 American documentary written and directed by Josh Fox. Nominated for an Academy Award for Best Documentary in 2011, the film focuses on communities in the United States affected by natural gas drilling and, specifically, a method of horizontal drilling into shale formations known as hydraulic fracturing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasland

In the film, Fox films people lighting water coming from their faucets (something you’ve mentioned above), shows jars of unknown liquids and makes inaccurate claims, etc in an effort of fear mongering and scare tactics.

I don’t agree. The way I see it, we’re just selling a resource we have lots of. It’s good for the economy and it’s good for people who live and work here. It isn’t as if the taps are running dry and Canada is going to be left without a source of natural gas. Maybe what we are exporting is enabling other coal/oil burning countries of the world to migrate to something a little cleaner, which will also be beneficial to us. If not, our economy is still benefiting from the industry. Energy companies sell energy, and in Canada they’re selling a lot of natural gas. Natural gas produces emissions and may have other environmental impacts, I get that. However, the energy industry is the same industry that seeks out safer, greener, more efficient means of producing energy. That’s what they do, and that’s what they’ll continue to do.

When or if we DO get to the point of burning on our last cubic meter of gas, I think it’ll be at a time we’re no longer dependent of it, new technologies will exist, and perhaps even Petronas will be looking at building some other sort of facility in Prince Rupert that will again be opposed for one reason or another. IMO, running out of our own natural gas isn’t a concern at all; especially if you’re a believer in cleaner, alternative sources. Assuming we’ll NEED the gas contradicts your hopes and dreams as it seems.

Is the gas going to China?

While there will be isolated incidents of illegal contamination in any industry, I think it’s important to note that it is illegal, so there is a law that prohibits it, and surely there are consequences for those who do. I’m sure some hydro-electric dams still kill the occasional salmon, but surely on occasion one doesn’t make it.

Regulated or otherwise dangerous chemicals are all listed on an MSDS for that chemical. If you get it on your skin or in your eyes, you and medical professionals need to know what they’re cleaning out of you. If you’re referring to the ‘trade secrets things’ where companies don’t need to list ALL of the ingredients of a specific blend, I’m not sure that exists on a level that’s relevant to environmental safety. It may be a weak analogy but does the restaurant that prepares an expensive meal for you disclose all of the ingredients on the menu, or just the stuff that’s relevant?

H2S is extremely poisonous, and dangerous to health. It’ll kill you instantly in low concentrations.I don’t know the specifics of that event, and it seems you must not either. The concentration and volume of the gas isn’t mentioned. ~50% of all well sites I work on release some amount of H2S on a daily basis, without a risk to health or the environment. I’m not a fan of vehicle exhaust or carbon monoxide, but I’m forced to breath it everyday, and it’s probably not going to be what kills me. I’m also not a fan of H2S gas and I’d prefer it to be burned off as is normal practice when possible.

[quote=“Slopestyle”]We are potentially putting our water supply at risk, perhaps, however we are more dependent on natural gas than we are on water?
Scientists don’t know enough about the affects of fracking on the water supply…“the scientific community knows little about how the repeated puncturing of the middle zone might allow methane to creep to surface or into groundwater” -John Cherry, a contaminant hydrologist who recently chaired an expert federal panel on the impact of fracking in Canada. I can’t support an increase in natural gas projects without knowing the implications, and many other countries, cities, and states agree . Here’s a list of places which have banned fracking for your reading pleasure: keeptapwatersafe.org/global-bans-on-fracking/[/quote]

While we may not know a lot about how methane ends up in groundwater from unnatural processes, it’s important to realize that (in the regions we’re talking about) the depths at which fracturing occurs is thousands of feet if not meters from groundwater sources. I have no idea what you mean by ‘fracking on the water supply’. I’ll assume you’re assuming that in some way the fracture is happening in/at or near known ground water sources, but it isn’t. The entire purpose of horizontal drilling and fracturing of the horizontal leg is to avoid drilling multiple vertical wells and extending the reach and productivity of a single drill. The strategy up here is to often run two laterals parallel to one another about 300m apart, while staggering the perforations to avoid communication between the two, but at the same time fracturing as close as possible to the next well. So it’s safe to assume that in the majority of cases a fracture will be limited to about that distance of 150-200m, horizontally. Certainly NOT 2000-3000m vertically though, where these laterals are placed.

Just because other people in other places are also ‘anti-fracking’ advocates doesn’t mean they know why they’re opposed to it, if it makes any sense, or if it’s a good decision to be. I honestly believe the largest environmental concern pertaining to fracturing here is the abundant use of fresh water to do it. Other than that, I honestly believe it’s contributing to a cleaner method of natural gas extraction regardless of what the skeptics and environmentalists concerns may be.

[quote=“Slopestyle”]Who would benefit from dumping the project? Well I guess we will find out who would have benefited if we continue down this road, medically perhaps? or maybe the new fire hazards of peoples homes from flammable methane creeping into their taps?

I know that we are a society dependent on fossil fuels, but with all that money being invested in oil and gas from export…geesh I’m sure that if it was invested in renewable energy we could reduce and eventually end our dependance! I’m still confident in the future, and hopeful we can turn things around. I will end my commitment to this thread with the following quote:

“History clearly shows that in countries with abundant natural resources and sparse population there is no thought of the future, and all energy is directed to the exploitation and reckless use of what nature has abundantly provided. The waste under such conditions is naturally very great and a more economic utilization does not pay. As the population increases and industry grows, the demand for raw material of all kinds increases, and there is a gradual awakening of public opinion for the need for a more careful husbanding of natural resources. Practically all nations have travelled the same road. Some reach this point sooner than others, but everyone is inevitably bound to face the same situation.” -The Forest Resources of the World. Raphael Zon , 1910[/quote]

Again with the methane creeping into the taps… Not a legit claim or a result of fracturing up here.

As for the investment into renewable energy. As they can afford it, I’m sure they will. Right now they’re investing in something they’ll get returns on, and it isn’t realistic to expect any oil and gas company to just invest billions into a part of the industry that isn’t benefiting them is silly.

For now, this is our fuel. In 10 years, maybe we’ll have something else. Look at how many houses are being built with geothermal technologies now, for example. It’s a gradual progression that doesn’t happen overnight, but it IS happening.

Read: forbes.com/sites/energysourc … cturing/2/

That link may debunk some of your mislead suspicions.

[quote=“orangetang”]

Gasland is a 2010 American documentary written and directed by Josh Fox. Nominated for an Academy Award for Best Documentary in 2011, the film focuses on communities in the United States affected by natural gas drilling and, specifically, a method of horizontal drilling into shale formations known as hydraulic fracturing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasland

In the film, Fox films people lighting water coming from their faucets (something you’ve mentioned above), shows jars of unknown liquids and makes inaccurate claims, etc in an effort of fear mongering and scare tactics.

I don’t agree. The way I see it, we’re just selling a resource we have lots of. It’s good for the economy and it’s good for people who live and work here. It isn’t as if the taps are running dry and Canada is going to be left without a source of natural gas. Maybe what we are exporting is enabling other coal/oil burning countries of the world to migrate to something a little cleaner, which will also be beneficial to us. If not, our economy is still benefiting from the industry. Energy companies sell energy, and in Canada they’re selling a lot of natural gas. Natural gas produces emissions and may have other environmental impacts, I get that. However, the energy industry is the same industry that seeks out safer, greener, more efficient means of producing energy. That’s what they do, and that’s what they’ll continue to do.

When or if we DO get to the point of burning on our last cubic meter of gas, I think it’ll be at a time we’re no longer dependent of it, new technologies will exist, and perhaps even Petronas will be looking at building some other sort of facility in Prince Rupert that will again be opposed for one reason or another. IMO, running out of our own natural gas isn’t a concern at all; especially if you’re a believer in cleaner, alternative sources. Assuming we’ll NEED the gas contradicts your hopes and dreams as it seems.

Is the gas going to China?

While there will be isolated incidents of illegal contamination in any industry, I think it’s important to note that it is illegal, so there is a law that prohibits it, and surely there are consequences for those who do. I’m sure some hydro-electric dams still kill the occasional salmon, but surely on occasion one doesn’t make it.

Regulated or otherwise dangerous chemicals are all listed on an MSDS for that chemical. If you get it on your skin or in your eyes, you and medical professionals need to know what they’re cleaning out of you. If you’re referring to the ‘trade secrets things’ where companies don’t need to list ALL of the ingredients of a specific blend, I’m not sure that exists on a level that’s relevant to environmental safety. It may be a weak analogy but does the restaurant that prepares an expensive meal for you disclose all of the ingredients on the menu, or just the stuff that’s relevant?

H2S is extremely poisonous, and dangerous to health. It’ll kill you instantly in low concentrations.I don’t know the specifics of that event, and it seems you must not either. The concentration and volume of the gas isn’t mentioned. ~50% of all well sites I work on release some amount of H2S on a daily basis, without a risk to health or the environment. I’m not a fan of vehicle exhaust or carbon monoxide, but I’m forced to breath it everyday, and it’s probably not going to be what kills me. I’m also not a fan of H2S gas and I’d prefer it to be burned off as is normal practice when possible.

[quote=“Slopestyle”]We are potentially putting our water supply at risk, perhaps, however we are more dependent on natural gas than we are on water?
Scientists don’t know enough about the affects of fracking on the water supply…“the scientific community knows little about how the repeated puncturing of the middle zone might allow methane to creep to surface or into groundwater” -John Cherry, a contaminant hydrologist who recently chaired an expert federal panel on the impact of fracking in Canada. I can’t support an increase in natural gas projects without knowing the implications, and many other countries, cities, and states agree . Here’s a list of places which have banned fracking for your reading pleasure: keeptapwatersafe.org/global-bans-on-fracking/[/quote]

While we may not know a lot about how methane ends up in groundwater from unnatural processes, it’s important to realize that (in the regions we’re talking about) the depths at which fracturing occurs is thousands of feet if not meters from groundwater sources. I have no idea what you mean by ‘fracking on the water supply’. I’ll assume you’re assuming that in some way the fracture is happening in/at or near known ground water sources, but it isn’t. The entire purpose of horizontal drilling and fracturing of the horizontal leg is to avoid drilling multiple vertical wells and extending the reach and productivity of a single drill. The strategy up here is to often run two laterals parallel to one another about 300m apart, while staggering the perforations to avoid communication between the two, but at the same time fracturing as close as possible to the next well. So it’s safe to assume that in the majority of cases a fracture will be limited to about that distance of 150-200m, horizontally. Certainly NOT 2000-3000m vertically though, where these laterals are placed.

Just because other people in other places are also ‘anti-fracking’ advocates doesn’t mean they know why they’re opposed to it, if it makes any sense, or if it’s a good decision to be. I honestly believe the largest environmental concern pertaining to fracturing here is the abundant use of fresh water to do it. Other than that, I honestly believe it’s contributing to a cleaner method of natural gas extraction regardless of what the skeptics and environmentalists concerns may be.

[quote=“Slopestyle”]Who would benefit from dumping the project? Well I guess we will find out who would have benefited if we continue down this road, medically perhaps? or maybe the new fire hazards of peoples homes from flammable methane creeping into their taps?

I know that we are a society dependent on fossil fuels, but with all that money being invested in oil and gas from export…geesh I’m sure that if it was invested in renewable energy we could reduce and eventually end our dependance! I’m still confident in the future, and hopeful we can turn things around. I will end my commitment to this thread with the following quote:

“History clearly shows that in countries with abundant natural resources and sparse population there is no thought of the future, and all energy is directed to the exploitation and reckless use of what nature has abundantly provided. The waste under such conditions is naturally very great and a more economic utilization does not pay. As the population increases and industry grows, the demand for raw material of all kinds increases, and there is a gradual awakening of public opinion for the need for a more careful husbanding of natural resources. Practically all nations have travelled the same road. Some reach this point sooner than others, but everyone is inevitably bound to face the same situation.” -The Forest Resources of the World. Raphael Zon , 1910[/quote]

Again with the methane creeping into the taps… Not a legit claim or a result of fracturing up here.

As for the investment into renewable energy. As they can afford it, I’m sure they will. Right now they’re investing in something they’ll get returns on, and it isn’t realistic to expect any oil and gas company to just invest billions into a part of the industry that isn’t benefiting them is silly.

For now, this is our fuel. In 10 years, maybe we’ll have something else. Look at how many houses are being built with geothermal technologies now, for example. It’s a gradual progression that doesn’t happen overnight, but it IS happening.

Read: forbes.com/sites/energysourc … cturing/2/

That link may debunk some of your mislead suspicions.[/quote]

Finally someone who knows what they are talking about in regards to fracking…I honestly believe many people watched ‘Gasland’ and are now “anti-frack” when they have NO idea what they are talking about and how it has basically zero relation to fracking that is occurring in Canada.

If you want money for renewable resources then talk to our government. It’s their job to invest in technology that is not economically viable for private interests in the short term. Don’t we pay a carbon tax for that exact fucking purpose or is it really only to give Cashback to the elite in whistler for their new “green” hot tubs.

We need jobs now and lng is one of the safest ways to generate thme in the short term. If we are smart we will use a porion of the royalties and other revenues to fund research and development into newer and greener fuels which we can license later on for more revenue.

Unfortunately a lot of you fucking morons keep voting for Stephen Harper and Christy Clark who keep pis sing away our future in order to make themselves look good on paper so you asshats vote for them again instead of investing in it like they should.

[quote=“jesus”]If you want money for renewable resources then talk to our government. It’s their job to invest in technology that is not economically viable for private interests in the short term. Don’t we pay a carbon tax for that exact fucking purpose or is it really only to give Cashback to the elite in whistler for their new “green” hot tubs.

We need jobs now and lng is one of the safest ways to generate thme in the short term. If we are smart we will use a porion of the royalties and other revenues to fund research and development into newer and greener fuels which we can license later on for more revenue.

Unfortunately a lot of you fucking morons keep voting for Stephen Harper and Christy Clark who keep pis sing away our future in order to make themselves look good on paper so you asshats vote for them again instead of investing in it like they should.[/quote]

So who do you propose we vote for then “Jesus” ??? I am not a Stephen Harper or a Conservative fan. But I sure as hell am not an NDP fan either Federally or Provincially, neither are supportive of LNG. Provincially there is no other party that supported LNG except for the Liberals. And speaking of the Federal NDP, Mulcair came out today toting a policy, promising a cheaper daycare program with a cost of $ 5 billion. Wonder where that money will come from. That was the problem with the provincial NDP, spending money with no plan on how to generate income.

If even if just one of these LNG proposals go through it will have a huge impact for Prince Rupert. Which I’m hoping will happen.

I don’t have an answer for you but voting for a Christian who doesn’t believe in science sure as hell won’t get you more investment into research especially when that research inconveniences them with things like facts. We need to abolish parties all together or at least the power of a party and find a way to give power back to each representative. Right now we vote for someone who promises something and even if they are honest and want to keep their promises their party won’t let them. What kind of system is that?

As for 5bn on daycare well… whatever. They are all going to piss I away our money and then some you just need to decide on what. If it was 5 billion more on daycare, 25 billion more on healthcare and 30 billion less on fighter jets what’s the difference. These talking heads all have someone’s hand up their ass making their mouths move anyway so whatever they say can’t be trusted, and it sure isn’t the people paying them (us) at least not the ones doing so over the table anyway.

Everything I see the 1500/week deducted in taxes and think about that fucking hot tub in whistler we helped pay for my blood boils. Yet we have no money for research and development or education. Fuck everyone that is in power now we need new blood because currently everything g is getting fucked up. In my oh so humble opinion anyway. I hate politics it’s like a beauty contest only you’re picking the person you hope will be the least shit and it’s just as fucking pointless.

PS. For those of you who are going to touted the liberals balance budget even if it is not fudged numbers it’s still bullshit. Selling your appreciable assets to balance your books certainly isn’t a sustainable position. I don’t know why we couldn’t lease the properties… except for the fact they were all sold to bc liberal friendlies but again I’m off topic.

Wouldn’t it be cool if they sold BC Place? Yes it would be cool.

[quote=“Gracies Mom”]

[quote=“jesus”]If you want money for renewable resources then talk to our government. It’s their job to invest in technology that is not economically viable for private interests in the short term. Don’t we pay a carbon tax for that exact fucking purpose or is it really only to give Cashback to the elite in whistler for their new “green” hot tubs.

We need jobs now and lng is one of the safest ways to generate thme in the short term. If we are smart we will use a porion of the royalties and other revenues to fund research and development into newer and greener fuels which we can license later on for more revenue.

Unfortunately a lot of you fucking morons keep voting for Stephen Harper and Christy Clark who keep pis sing away our future in order to make themselves look good on paper so you asshats vote for them again instead of investing in it like they should.[/quote]

So who do you propose we vote for then “Jesus” ??? I am not a Stephen Harper or a Conservative fan. But I sure as hell am not an NDP fan either Federally or Provincially, neither are supportive of LNG. Provincially there is no other party that supported LNG except for the Liberals. And speaking of the Federal NDP, Mulcair came out today toting a policy, promising a cheaper daycare program with a cost of $ 5 billion. Wonder where that money will come from. That was the problem with the provincial NDP, spending money with no plan on how to generate income.

If even if just one of these LNG proposals go through it will have a huge impact for Prince Rupert. Which I’m hoping will happen.[/quote]

With inflation, $5 billion isn’t what it used to be. Also, while I am not a supporter of any party (my vote goes to the party that best represents my views at the time of the election, which has swung between BC lIberals and BC NDP) it is only fair to set the record straight on the NDP’s “anti-LNG” stand:

commonsensecanadian.ca/bc-ndp-co … cking-lng/

John Horgan called Shell Canada’s LNG project in Kitimat “very good news”, and he supports fracking. Not sure how that jibes with your “not supportive of LNG”.

[quote=“TerriblePerson”]

Wouldn’t it be cool if they sold BC Place? Yes it would be cool.[/quote]

Why sell it when you can lease it for a profit 25 years at a time and keep the equitable value.

North Coast Review has dug up some information regarding this project. Looks like Petronas is testing out lender interest for its $12 Billion project.

northcoastreview.blogspot.ca/201 … 5-per.html