Occupy Vancouver

I’ve been away for a short time so I may have missed this topic discussion on HTMF. 'tried a search with no luck.
From what I can gather, it seems as though the the recent American economic meltdown stimulated an occupation of U.S. citizens on Wall street. This demonstration was in direct response to the bail out of many of the countries elite businesses. The scope of this demonstration/ occupation in America reads like a logical reaction towards the present state of economics and politics in that country.We can go one step further and understand this type of reaction in other countries.

I’m not sure what the underlying logic of the Vancouver occupation is. I’ve read 4-5 newspapers in the last few days and have heard 20-30 different causes being represented. Now, I’m no economist, but I think Canada has fared well ( globally speaking) in recent times.

I’m all for venting every now and then, and if the Vancouver occupation is group therapy, then I’m all for it. Pick your cause and hold up a sign or grab a megaphone. What irks me is this. For a country that is weathering this global economic meltdown the best, I can’t help but wonder what a country like Greece thinks of our situation. That’s not a fair comparison, I know, but you get my meaning.

I guess I’m opening the door to some criticism with my small rant but what the heck, they’re doing it down south.

Greece is going through a very grave financial crisis that has spilled over to the rest of the EU. Little wonder that people are taking to the streets to express concern.

The situation in the US strikes me as quite different. The bailouts to big corporations that US taxpayers will eventually have to pay for, and the unseemly bonuses that some business leaders paid themselves, were a while ago. There seems to be a more fundamental concern about the direction the country is heading. There are growing disparities between the rich and everyone else, and there is a political culture that protects those who are well off from having to alter their lifestyles to help pay for basic services and the cost of fighting various wars, as was demonstrated during the recent deficit ceiling crisis in Congress.

Sure, we’re doing better in relative terms. Our banks were not on the verge of failing, largely because of controls put in place during the Chretian/Martin era that even Harper acknowledges were good policies. I wonder where we would be if the Conservatives had been in power during those years?

I have read reports that income disparities are increasing in this country. We don’t stack up as well as we used to among the leading OECD countries in terms of health care, child poverty and other social indices. We have gone from being an international environmental leader to a laggard and an embarrassment. The EU has been talking about banning our tar sands oil, increasingly the foundation of our petrostate economy and relative affluence, as ‘dirty oil’.

We’ve become more militarized than we used to be, and are no longer a participant in UN missions. We are more strident about which side we’re on in world trouble spots, and less of an honest broker internationally. We’re really not viewed in some countries, such as in Latin America, as the nice guys that we think that we are.

Under Harper we seem to be going down a Bush-era road notwithstanding that all one has to do is look south of the border to see where it will lead us to, at least in some respects. I think the Occupy events in this country are more than just venting or letting off steam. The latter is more the kind of thing that hockey riots are about. This is different.

Yep. I don’t often agree with you BTravenn, but you’re right.
I see us going down a very similar path, as the americans did. THAT is what occupy vancouver would be about. Well, that and everything going on in the world. Occupy Wallstreet, wherever the protest is held. Is a GLOBAL movement. It wasn’t just meant for Americans. The world wants to see less of a gap between the elite, and the “poor”. Change is coming, people are waking up. Unfortunately, the mainstream media spin on things, isn’t so positive. YAY for having a tinfoil hat. Hehe. I wish I was closer. I’d be right there screaming with them!

yes,
i would be there too. the energy seems very positive…serious… without violence. me thinks change is upon us.

[quote=“bmj9”]yes,
i would be there too. the energy seems very positive…serious… without violence. me thinks change is upon us.[/quote]

Except there is violence, almost exclusively by the police.

I’m hopeful this won’t be the case in Canada.

SRC: Reddit

Sorry but the Canadian version of this Occupy wherever you are thing, seems to resemble the cast of Casablanca, “round up the usual suspects”

It would appear more to be along the lines of hey we’re missing out on this “moment” best do something, hence the laundry list of participants. All of them more along the vein of the usual rent a crowd that always attends these things.

Rather than the 99 per cent, it would seem to be more the case of the usual 10 per cent.

Really we’re trying to compare our situation in Canada with that of Greece, Portugal et al, sheesh, give me a break.

Suspect few that wander this board will find this article useful, it’s after all from a “right wing” paper, but frankly McParland seems to have captured the essence of the Canadian version of the great revolutionary moment.

fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 … dle-class/

[quote=“DarcyMcGee”]Sorry but the Canadian version of this Occupy wherever you are thing, seems to resemble the cast of Casablanca, “round up the usual suspects”

It would appear more to be along the lines of hey we’re missing out on this “moment” best do something, hence the laundry list of participants. All of them more along the vein of the usual rent a crowd that always attends these things.

Rather than the 99 per cent, it would seem to be more the case of the usual 10 per cent.

Really we’re trying to compare our situation in Canada with that of Greece, Portugal et al, sheesh, give me a break.

Suspect few that wander this board will find this article useful, it’s after all from a “right wing” paper, but frankly McParland seems to have captured the essence of the Canadian version of the great revolutionary moment.

fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 … dle-class/[/quote]

It’s not JUST about the situation in Canada. It’s about the situation WORLD WIDE. What gave you the idea that these protests were JUST about the city or country they’re held in?

[quote=“bubbasteve735”]

[quote=“DarcyMcGee”]Sorry but the Canadian version of this Occupy wherever you are thing, seems to resemble the cast of Casablanca, “round up the usual suspects”

It would appear more to be along the lines of hey we’re missing out on this “moment” best do something, hence the laundry list of participants. All of them more along the vein of the usual rent a crowd that always attends these things.

Rather than the 99 per cent, it would seem to be more the case of the usual 10 per cent.

Really we’re trying to compare our situation in Canada with that of Greece, Portugal et al, sheesh, give me a break.

Suspect few that wander this board will find this article useful, it’s after all from a “right wing” paper, but frankly McParland seems to have captured the essence of the Canadian version of the great revolutionary moment.

fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 … dle-class/[/quote]

It’s not JUST about the situation in Canada. It’s about the situation WORLD WIDE. What gave you the idea that these protests were JUST about the city or country they’re held in?[/quote]

Really, you take a look at some of the signs at the Vancouver one for instance, not exactly a world view. Just the usual gang of folks that like to show up for the same old, same old protest march.

Trying to tie in the Canadian concerns with the very real life and death issues of Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and all that, cmon’ give me a break, driving into the protest site in Mom or Dad’s Subara isn’t exactly on par with bringing down a dictator.

Anyways, here’s some more reading material, for you, Perhaps it will give us some idea of where this group you wish you were with hope to achieve

Though it would appear that the occupiers are still looking for whatever it is they are trying to accomplish.

theglobeandmail.com/news/nat … le2202921/

theglobeandmail.com/news/nat … le2203006/

So outline for us in whatever percent it is that don’t share your world view, what it is that you wish to see come from all of this theatre, cause just protesting for the sake of a good ole fashioned protest isn’t really offering up any real answers to the current problems of the rest of the world.

It’s always good to get the perspective from across the pond, and also to be reminded that what goes on in Toronto defines what’s happening in the entire country, something that we tend to forget at times.

The street protests in Greece have been going on for quite some time. I don’t think those events have prompted people to take placards to downtown Vancouver. Wall Street is more of an influence, which shouldn’t be surprising given our close ties to the US and their problems.

As for the connection McParland makes between Occupy and the Arab Spring, that’s the first I’ve heard of it. That connection is made of straw, or in the sheesh, give me a break category. Whatever.

Being a centrist, small l liberal, I used to read the National Post quite often. After a while, though, I stopped bothering because so many issues seemed to be reduced to the same line, which McParland captures well …

Those who disagree are just “malcontents”, they don’t “appreciate how fortunate they are”. After all, “Everyone gets to vote” (declining voter participation rates are skipped over). “We have an immense array of rights …” (that seem to be eroding) “… and an extensive judicial system” (that seems to be floundering).

In the end, though, the National Post seems to be largely directed at the (declining) middle class, and the core message seems to be: everything is okay, it will all go away, you can go back to eating your breakfast bagel.

Did you not read the rest of this thread Darcy?
I’m just curious, because most of your “questions” (if you can call them that) are answered by people’s previous responses.
You don’t think we’re under a slowly growing to power, dictatorship? So, if we don’t have anything to complain about do the people in the US? Harper has the same elitist views as Bush does. In fact, they’re quite buddy buddy, being part of the same social groups. :wink:

The elite WANT the middle class gone. So there will be the super rich, and the poor. It’s already started to happen in the US, and whatever happens down there, WILL trickle up here eventually. And if I’m so wrong in saying we have something to fight for, then why are so many people ALL AROUND THE WORLD doing it? Maybe it’s just a fad.

Not that any of what I’m saying is actually of any value to you, you will think what you like, as will the rest of the people who have their eyes shut. I’m so happy that I get to see SOME people get it, and are awake, with their eyes open. Try it some time Darcy. :smiley:

[quote=“BTravenn”]

It’s always good to get the perspective from across the pond, and also to be reminded that what goes on in Toronto defines what’s happening in the entire country, something that we tend to forget at times.

The street protests in Greece have been going on for quite some time. I don’t think those events have prompted people to take placards to downtown Vancouver. Wall Street is more of an influence, which shouldn’t be surprising given our close ties to the US and their problems.

As for the connection McParland makes between Occupy and the Arab Spring, that’s the first I’ve heard of it. That connection is made of straw, or in the sheesh, give me a break category. Whatever.

Being a centrist, small l liberal, I used to read the National Post quite often. After a while, though, I stopped bothering because so many issues seemed to be reduced to the same line, which McParland captures well …

Those who disagree are just “malcontents”, they don’t “appreciate how fortunate they are”. After all, “Everyone gets to vote” (declining voter participation rates are skipped over.) “We have an immense array of rights …” (that seem to be eroding) “… and an extensive judicial system” (that seems to be floundering).

In the end, though, the Post seems to be largely directed at the (declining) middle class, and the core message seems to be: everything is okay, it will all go away, you can go back to eating your breakfast bagel.[/quote]

Putting aside the quick dismissal of the National Post, for having an opinion I guess.

There is an undercurrent of a greater movement, as can be found below.

winnipegfreepress.com/opinio … 39733.html

rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/chris-s … man-rights

So it’s not just the fanciful wanderings of McParland.

While I’m sure some of the participants in the Canadian protests, have good intentions, the larger group of them kind of remind me of the days when High School students would walk out in support of their teachers during a labour dispute. Some would walk around the block with signs and such seeking to outline their concerns, most however, just went to the mall and took the day off…

[quote=“bubbasteve735”]Did you not read the rest of this thread Darcy?
I’m just curious, because most of your “questions” (if you can call them that) are answered by people’s previous responses.
You don’t think we’re under a slowly growing to power, dictatorship? So, if we don’t have anything to complain about do the people in the US? Harper has the same elitist views as Bush does. In fact, they’re quite buddy buddy, being part of the same social groups. :wink:

The elite WANT the middle class gone. So there will be the super rich, and the poor. It’s already started to happen in the US, and whatever happens down there, WILL trickle up here eventually. And if I’m so wrong in saying we have something to fight for, then why are so many people ALL AROUND THE WORLD doing it? Maybe it’s just a fad.

Not that any of what I’m saying is actually of any value to you, you will think what you like, as will the rest of the people who have their eyes shut. I’m so happy that I get to see SOME people get it, and are awake, with their eyes open. Try it some time Darcy. :smiley:[/quote]

Well, considering the Canadian numbers are kind of low even by our small standard of protest, you’re right SOME people get it, whatever it is you want us to get I guess.

Lets be generous and say they had about 5,000 or so in Vancouver, out of a population of what 1.5 million in metro Vancouver, not exactly the groundswell of the masses is it?

Though, of those numbers, i would imagine a large proportion of them are the same folks you talk to over and over and over again sharing the same conspiracy things.

While it seems that the board participants don’t appreciate the National Post much, this line from a recent story kind of sums up how the message can get hijacked by the fringe (yes sadly bubba you still hold that terrain at the moment)

“These folks, rambling about 9/11, an end to currency and the coming conquest of the Earth, are going to hog most of the attention, and that’s how publicity battles are lost.”

The full article, for those inclined can be found here:

fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 … eir-cause/

No, I don’t make a “quick dismissal” of the National Post. I’ve read it many times, and for a while got the print version daily. It’s thin, predictable, all to often given to cliches, and just wasn’t worth the price, is my non-far left opinion.

I checked your links to the Globe and Mail, which I take more seriously, but got “Oops that page cannot be found”.

I don’t understand why you cite the blogger from UBC to reassure us that McParland isn’t just being fanciful. According to the blogger, “A resonance with this spirit of resistance seems to be spreading around the world and involving those who likely never held a protest placard in their lives.” And he says more.

Bartley Kives’ op-ed in the Winnipeg Free Press also doesn’t support McParland’s profundities, which are based on the shakey proposition that if only 2000 people carry placards only 2000 people support a particular cause. Kives makes an interesting comparison between Occupy and the Tea Party. He acknowledges that Occupy has had a significant impact, but says that unless they follow the Tea Party’s example and articulate clearer goals the populists will be displaced by the ideologues, which will probably be the undoing of the movement, such as it is.

[quote=“DarcyMcGee”]
While I’m sure some of the participants in the Canadian protests, have good intentions, the larger group of them kind of remind me of the days when High School students would walk out in support of their teachers during a labour dispute. Some would walk around the block with signs and such seeking to outline their concerns, most however, just went to the mall and took the day off…[/quote]

Yes, I get your point, I remember demonstrations about food offerings at the school cafeteria and other injustices, but this seems to be a lot less fleeting and the issues are far more fundamental. But I wasn’t in downtown Vancouver, just here in end-of-the-road Rupert, so I can’t speak with confidence about what it was ‘like’ there. Maybe you were there. I don’t know.

The picture that PLA posted earlier, showing the Vancouver city cop and the placard bearer, seemed to capture both the seriousness of the moment and that in this country citizens can still express their views without being dismissed as “malcontents” and whatever other hyperbole the rhetoricians at the National Post are offering for breakfast time consumption.

There are some that don’t understand all the noise.

news.icanhascheezburger.com/2011 … ew-yorker/

Neil Macdonald of that well known left wing propaganda agency the CBC offers an interesting take on the Occupy movement including some comparisons with the Tea Party and some notable topics that might bring greater clarity to the movement’s agenda.

cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011 … ml?cmp=rss

Along that theme, some other points of discussion on the theme of the Occupy wherever you are movement.

They haven’t updated the podcast yet, but keep your eye on the CKNW podcast site for Bill Good

cknw.com/Channels/Reg/News/T … dShow.aspx

He interviewed an Economist from the University of Western Ontario, who had some interesting thoughts on the topic of the Occupy movement.

Of particular interest was the observation that one of the groups involved in the Toronto protest was the CAW, hammering home the message that they are against corporate bail outs and such, of course the irony seemingly was lost on those from the CAW in the march, that their auto plants benefited from those same corporate bail outs of a few years back.

Hard to know which side of the street they might have been marching on there.

Anyways, that and a few other interesting tidbits will be there once the day’s podcast schedule is uploaded.

You can also access the show from the CKWN audio vault, check out the 10 - 11 am hour for Tuesday October 18, the segment ran from 1030-11.

That seems to bear out Bartley Kives’ cautionary advice about the potential, if clear goals are not articulated, of the Occupy populists being displaced by ideologues with self-serving agendas, in this case that CAW’s corporate employers should be bailed out but other workers’ employers should not be.

Wow. we’re closer on this topic than perhaps we thought.

That was the inference to my suggestion that rather than take on the cloak of the world agenda, the local (or in this case) Canadian movements if we can call them that, had basically just morphed into the usual suspects club seen at all public gatherings.

A place where everyone with an axe to grind painted up a sign and either hitched a ride with Mom to the protest or hoofed it there on their own.

Who is John Galt?