North Coast all-candidates meeting

If Chances was a Unionized Casino they would probably be culling (firing ) people before the end of their probation period. 

Mr. Gordon-Payne:

Thank you for undermining your own position by resorting to name calling. It saved me a ton of typing. Have a great day!

For your reference, the quote to keep is from here:

You can post that whenever eccentric breaks his own rules.

Whatever–if you guys think that Riley was being polite, courteous, and reasonable then that’s your opinion. I’m not trying to take the guy down a peg or anything, but I think it was pretty clear that he was trying to be a jerk. (And I do think jerk is a pretty light word compared to things people have said about Herb Pond.)

Let me see if I’ve got this straight. I don’t know Riley, I was not at the meeting, I am not defending him; and I do not define myself as an ‘NDPer’ or Green. 

He was described by another poster as “idiot Riley kid”, which you properly say was “impolite”. But you counter that he was “acting like a jerk”, which is apparently something else. Are there shades between polite and impolite that we don’t have the words to properly calibrate? 

Of course you’re not trying to “take the guy down a peg” - heaven forbid - you are just saying that he was “trying to be a jerk”, which is not an especially elevating thing to say, especially about someone who is a “kid”. I gather, by the way, that he was only “trying to be a jerk”; he did not succeed. In any event it doesn’t matter because Herb Pond has been called worse things, as if that now sets a new standard of civility, or more accurately the lack thereof.

This is about as clear to me as the Pond supporter who went to the mic and hurled abuse, apparently at Mr Coons, but I suspect with a generous amount of over-spray. I was just waiting, hoping even, for her to say "Go to the window, stick your head out and yell “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!”’

I don’t think he’s a jerk, I think he was acting like one–and I’m not sure he’d disagree. Plus, he’s older than me–so that fact that someone else called him a “kid” doesn’t really have anything to do with what I said.

Calling him an idiot certainly isn’t polite, but he was very cocky and rude when presenting his question. He could have said the same thing–even point out that Herb was part of the Council that allowed it to be built–without being a jerk.[/quote]

I don’t think asking a “Herb’s Casino” question was “being a jerk.”  Certainly cocky, but I’m not sure how it’s rude, since the point of the meeting was to ask questions.

Here’s the question again, and you can decide for yourself if he’s being a jerk by asking a question at an all-candidate’s meeting.

Well, there are lots of people who would disagree with you about it being “complete and utter nonsense.”

I’m sure there are a few cases where people are now addicted to gambling who weren’t before.[/quote]


Still “complete and utter nonsense.” ?

He was asking a question at the all-candidate’s meeting to see what the candidates would propose.  Do you not get that?  Or is that also “complete and utter nonsense.” ?  He wasn’t out to propose a solution – he was asking the candidates to speak to the matter.  But you think that’s being a jerk, right?

After the description by eccentric I expected some rude behaviour from the person asking the question.  But, after viewing the video clip I don’t think the person was out of line or behaving like a jerk.

Absolutely, and I think he could easily have asked the question without coming off as cocky or rude. For example: “To all the candidate. How do you plan to combat the social problems caused by the Chances gaming center which was approved and built while Mr Pond was the Mayor?”

The clip doesn’t show him heckling Mr Pond during his answer.

So now you’re changing your mind about what you wrote? 

You said “he was very cocky and rude when presenting his question. He could have said the same thing–even point out that Herb was part of the Council that allowed it to be built–without being a jerk.”

He was very cocky and rude when presenting his question?  That’s what you said back there.  The video shows he wasn’t.  So in traditional eccentric manner, you’ve been proven wrong, and you want to move on to something else.

He wasn’t rude when presenting his question.  You just don’t like the question.

Not at all. I’m haven’t said a word about the other questions that were geared towards making Pond look bad and Coons look good.

I disagree with you–I think his attitude was terrible when asking the question and it made him look cocky and rude. On top of that, it’s hard to make an argument that supports heckling.

Perhaps a better format for these spectacles would be if the questioner had a 30 second or 1 minute rebuttal. I believe Pond missed the point of some questions as did Girbav and Coons.

I don’t see that in the clip MiG provided, eccentric.

Which is why I said “I think” rather than “You think.”

That’s true, but that’s politics I guess. Like Marty Bowles (sp) question: one good, one bad, and one ugly thing about our school district. None of them really answered exactly what was asked, but that’s the nature of the beast.

I would not go so far as to call that “cocky”; certainly not “rude”. By the standards of Ottawa or Victoria, which are different from the standards that most of us try to observe, the question strikes me as being rather tame, even ‘parliamentary’.

Our history is full of political anecdotes from John A MacDonald puking and saying that was what he thought about a Liberal opponent’s speech, to Tommy Douglas giving a speech on a mature spreader and saying that he had never stood on a “Liberal platform” before, to Trudeau’s “fuddle duddle” remark, to Harper conservatives calling members opposite “Taliban cheerleaders”. I have heard Americans express surprise at how raucous our political discourse can be, no doubt part of our Westminster-style democratic heritage.

From what I understand Mr Pond has cited the 90 or so jobs at Chances as an accomplishment. I see nothing wrong with that, even though I am not a fan of Chances. He is not the first mayor who has treated a casino (or in some places Wal-Mart) as a good news story in a depressed local economy where so much of the news is negative or uninspiring.

But having cited Chances as part of the Pond legacy as Mayor (and I am not criticising by the way), is the casino now just something that “was approved and built while Mr Pond was mayor”, like improvements to waste disposal facilities? The Pond campaign cannot have it both ways. At the risk of offending fragile sensibilities, or arousing ire, the Pond campaign cannot suck and blow at the same time. The Casino is either part of a record that the candidate trumpets but must also defend, or it is a footnote. Which is it?

To me, what seems to have been expected from “Riley” (he seems not to have a first name or be deserving of the saluation “Mr”, unlike “Herb Pond” or “Mr Pond”) what is being expected is a kind of deference, a minding of p’s and q’s, a bowing and curtseying, that does not speak well of the Pond campaign.

On other threads Gordo, or Premier Campbell if you prefer, has been roundly condemned for being convicted of DUI and suggestions have been made that he should have resigned. I actually do not agree with that. High political office demands toughness, an ability to weather storms, whether in public affairs or in their personal lives. But that is not the message that the Pond supporters seem to be sending. Their message seems to be ‘we are thin skinned’, ‘we easily take offence’.

If there are some clips showing heckling or truly egregious conduct, which this is not, I would like to see it. 

See how you’re trying to backtrack on what you said?

Let me remind you again: “He was very cocky and rude when presenting his question. He could have said the same thing–even point out that Herb was part of the Council that allowed it to be built–without being a jerk.”

So he was cocky and rude and was being a jerk while presenting his question.  The video disagrees with you.  And I think even you now disagree with you, as you’re trying to make this not about the question, but about something that happened 5 minutes after “presenting the question.” 

You still think he was being a jerk while presenting the question?  If so, then yeah, that’s your definition of jerk.  Something to file away for future use.

It seems to me that eccentric will never concede a point in an argument even when the evidence proves that he is in error.  Interesting. :smile: 

I do, and not because of what he asked, but how he asked it. It’s my opinion–not a factual error that you can prove incorrect. We disagree, and that’s okay… let’s move on. :smiley:

I’m not following you here… How are they trying to suck and blow at the same time?