Heh, well-said, herbie! 
To continue with my comments to saltybear,if you were not born rich,then you probably have to work for a living.
If you are so resentful with unions, then work 7 days a week for straight time, take no holiday pay, never use Canadaās socialized medical system,if you become unemployed donāt accept any EI payments,work 'til you die because you refuse to accept OAP or company pensions or send your kids to publicly funded schoolsā¦
None of the above were gifts fromĀ employers or their governments,the were fought for by workers clubbing together in Unionās and demanding more for the average working person, not just their members!
what a pile of crap!what pisses me of with unions in general is they have no concern about the people that their actions affect.think of all the non longshore union jobs that are affected and tell me a strike is a good thing for people who are already over paid !and i have been on both sides and prefer non union,thank you very much.i can actually think for myself!
Well, think for yourself and answer the question:Ā How would you get the employer to negotiate?Ā What would you do differently than what this union has done to get the employer to negotiate?
Although there were some employer medical plans Canadaās socialized medical plan wasnāt fought for by workers but introduced by Tommy Douglas.
Unemployment Insurance was a government response to high unemployment.
If by OAP you mean CPP, that was also a government projectā¦legislation introduced by John Diefenbaker I believe.
Tommy Douglas = CCF (farmers - CoOp) + unions = NDP
Tory + Liberal rulebook Lesson #1: keep the socialists out of power by stealing their best policies.
EI, CPP and national medicare were not policies of the right. They were policies of the left. Compare ours to the USAās washed-out or nonexistent versions and you can tell how reluctantly they were added there.
The rule of thumb seems to be (with the Port issue) is that in most things majority rules ( part of democracy ā¦ may be mistaken though) It would not matter what Rupert voted, as Vancouver has the higher numbers. I did see on the news that the talks were back on! Saltybear still waiting for your response to MIG;s query ā¦ !
From my perspective, Unions and for that matter government regulation are required as a counterbalance to the excesses of the so called free market.
The unfortunate thing in the current strike is that of all of the ports in BC, this port is just getting off the ground again after the disasters of the past decade and is struggling to prove itself in a competitive international arena.
While union solidarity is no doubt important, Rupert has suffered a great deal more than the other BC Ports and will suffer more than the others.Ā So the North is in effect once again held hostage to decisions made in the cozier and urbanized southern parts of the province.
That is what we call a ādemocracyā my friend. Whining about the north being held āhostageā is counter productive, small minded and typical of Rupertities who havent ventured out side of the island of Podunk.
Lighten up this is a democracyā¦
democracy my ass!the prima donnas that call themselves formen should be contemplating how much of a cut they are willing to take to keep their jobs!look at how many p.r. longshoremen had to travel to the lower mainland just to make ends meet,and some idiot says that we are not held hostage by the south.just look at what used to happen with the illustrious u.f.a.w.u,the north would strike and as soon as the first sockeye showed on the south coast guess who settled!and guess who got screwed.so much for democracy.read tonites daily news if you think I am the only one concerned about this.
So rather than answering a question that Iāve asked 3 or 4 times, youād rather insult the union members, is that the case?
One last time, before we just assume you canāt actually read:Ā what would you do to get the employer to negotiation, that hasnāt already been done by the union?Ā What magical solution do you have?
how aboutĀ making binding arbitration mandatory for union related industries, that way when times are good they get more benefits and when times are bad they give up benefits and if your government workers set the wages to what the average private service makes for the same job that way both sides wonāt have to hold the public hostage, that way if the private makes more you make more if the private makes less you make less
and trust me times are not going to get good for a few years yet in any countries economy
Nothing wrong with binding arbitration, as long as the arbitrator is picked in a fair way.Ā Thereās a misconception out there that unions donāt like this, but the truth is that both sides often donāt like the lack of negotiation.
The other option is final offer arbitration, where both sides make their best offer, and an arbitrator or tribunal picks the best one.Ā This means that both sides have it in their best interests to make their demands fair instead of outrageous.Ā With traditional bargaining, if you want a small raise, your starting offer is for a huge raise.Ā With final offer arbitration, your goal is to make your request more attractive than the other sideās (so it will be chosen).
But the question remains to Saltybear:Ā what would he do specifically, that the union hasnāt already done, short of a strike?Ā From what I see, theyāve tried everything to get the employer to negotiate a contract, but the employer isnāt interested.Ā So what would you do, Saltybear?
fire the lot and start over like Reagen did with the air traffic controllers in the u.s when their demands were unreasonable.the problem with some unions is that they actually think they are worth the ridiculous demands they are making.with what is happening in the rest of the country and the world,they should be thankful they have such a high paying job!
I guess you didnāt read the question, or you choose to ignore it.Ā So I guess itās time for us to stop reading your posts or choose to ignore you.
I asked what you would do if you were the union, and you couldnāt get the employer to negotiate.
I always enjoy an open minded discussion, where both sides of the question are givenĀ thoughtful and rational debate with all sides respecting the others position.
Me too!
Lick thine Overlords feet? Oaths of fealty? Offer up your virgin daughters?
Just donāt go on strike! Thatās BAD.
Perhaps saltybear would rather us go back to whips and chains ?!
You guys keep forgetting who is more important.Ā You keep talking about the union and the employer.Ā What about the customer?Ā Do you guys really think that the customer cares about your issues? Everyone who works these days has an issue.Ā They are all the same.Ā Wages, hours, pension, benefits.Ā You guys are not special because you work in a union.Ā You guys need to pick you battles and more importantly choose when to fight them.Ā Their are retired people scared to death because they are living on RRSP that have taken a dive in this economy.Ā You should be great full for the job at hand and everything that it comes with.Ā
IF ships keep getting diverted or if the customer has to pay extra harbor fees they will leave.Ā They are suffering in this economy too.Ā It is nothing for them to change to a port south of the boarder. Their are tones of ports from Bellingham to LA.Ā The guy in the suite in the corner office who makes a lot more money than all of us dose not care if this town gets shut down or if this port gets closed.Ā He will do what is best for him and his business.Ā
I am not saying that you should not have rights or anything but in this market you may have to eat it a little too.Ā Everyone else is.Ā But really it is your job an your town and your home.Ā Go ahead and strike away.Ā But donāt complain if things get shut down or if jobs are lost. No one thought it wouldĀ happen to the mill.Ā No one thought the saw mill would close and it was rebuilt new too.Ā Good luck in getting on at the coal or grain.Ā They have already have staff.Ā
Look around, the auto industry is begging for bail outs, Air Canada is barely afloat.Ā Huge multimillion dollar nation wide stores are folding.Ā Maybe you will need to take a concession and suck it up for a year or too.Ā Much better than the alternative.Ā
Itās amazing what fear and ignorance will do to people.