Long Gun Registry

Interesting that our Tough on Crime gang in Ottawa is jumping to spend Billions of dollars on building more prisons. Yet when Canadian police forces are in favour of continuing with the long gun registry the Harpercons are anxious to save a measly few million by doing away with this policing tool. Once again we find the Harpercons willing to lie to us to pursue their ideological driven agenda and wedge politics;

**"The federal Opposition Liberals are demanding the Conservative government release an RCMP evaluation report of Canada’s long-gun registry that concludes the program is cost effective, efficient and an important tool for law enforcement.

CBC News has learned that the report, conducted with the help of outside auditors and completed six months ago, has been in the hands of the government since February."

"When asked about the document by reporters on Thursday, the public safety minister insisted it has not yet been “finalized” and did not give a timeframe for when it would be released.

“As soon as that report is finalized, I will make sure that it’s released,” Toews said during a news conference in Winnipeg.
The Liberals said it is the second time the government has tried to withhold information on the registry from MPs ahead of a vote on Hoeppner’s bill.

Disclosed government documents show that Peter Van Loan, then public safety minister, waited until two days after MPs held a second reading vote on Bill C-391 last November to table a report that said police were using the registry more than ever.
If passed, Bill C-391 would scrap the decade-old registry and destroy existing data within the system on about seven million shotguns and rifles."**

Read more: cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/0 … z0xlr6wTiY

While the Liberals and NDP are in support of the bill, this has placed some rural MP’s in difficult positions as they try to reconcile the wishes of their rural constituents with their party positions. I heard on the radio that our riding represented by Nathan Cullen is one of those the Conservatives will attempt to make political Hay no matter how Cullen votes.

While I did not vote for Cullen in the past, I’ve been following his record via openparliament.ca and respect the positions he takes. For what it’s worth, I’m in favour of the gun registry and will not hold it against Nathan if he needs to vote his party line on this issue.

[quote=“Speakuppr”] … While the Liberals and NDP are in support of the bill, this has placed some rural MP’s in difficult positions as they try to reconcile the wishes of their rural constituents with their party positions. I heard on the radio that our riding represented by Nathan Cullen is one of those the Conservatives will attempt to make political Hay no matter how Cullen votes.

While I did not vote for Cullen in the past, I’ve been following his record via openparliament.ca and respect the positions he takes. For what it’s worth, I’m in favour of the gun registry and will not hold it against Nathan if he needs to vote his party line on this issue.[/quote]

I don’t know why your say “the Liberals and NDP are in support of the bill”. Both parties oppose bill C-391 to abolish the long gun registry, but there is a major difference in how the two parties will be handling the upcoming vote. Iggy will be requiring that all Liberal MPs vote against the bill, while Layton is treating it as a free vote, so NDP MPs can vote however they want.

The bill to abolish the registry passed last November with the support of 8 Liberals and 12 NDP MPs because it was introduced as a private members bill. As matter of convention MPs are not required to vote with the party on a private member’s bill.

This time around though, Iggy is taking the position that in substance bill C-391 is a government bill, so it will be a whipped vote … Liberal MPs will face party discipline if they vote in favour of abolition. He has also proposed some changes to the administration of the registry, like abolishing fees and introducing graduated penalties for failure to register.

Layton in contrast is merely “encouraging” his MP’s to oppose abolition. If Harper succeeds in abolishing the long gun registry it will because of the active support of some NDP MPs and the tacit support of Jack Layton … not exactly the NDP’s finest hour.

I would hope Nathan would respect the overwhelming view of his constituents and vote to scrap the registry. That he did not so once before cost him the support of hundreds of hard-cores who can’t understand the art of politics and compromise. The Tories have a knack for tagging terrible legislation buried in the subclauses so only a draconian redneck can buy the whole package.
The gov’t has no need and no right to know if I own a rifle or shotgun, hammer, sickle or butter knife. The very fact that Police Chiefs like it is a red flag warning that it’s a bad idea.

Next thing they will want us to register cars!

Just keep drinking the kool aid, while we slide closer and closer to a police state.

                "The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police is of the firm opinion that a Charter of Rights and Freedoms enshrined in the Constitution is neither necessary nor desirable"
                                 [ualberta.ca/~clement2/cacp.pdf](http://www.ualberta.ca/~clement2/cacp.pdf)

The registry doesnt work, it hasnt saved a single life and it doesnt offer front line police officers any more than the existing licencing system did. How many MRI , Xray and other specialized medical machines and how many doctors and other health proffesionals could have been educated and actually in the field saving lives for 2 billion dollars? the gun registry is a knee jerk crock dreamed up by Allan Rock and the liberals to take away attention from increasing crime rates ( ecole polytechnique massacre Mark Lepine = Gamil Rodrigue Gharbi) . Poor imigration policy , the appointment of soft on crime judiciary and the need for political correctness got us here.
Registering and confiscating legally owned property belonging to millions of honest sportsmen is not going to fix it.

So we need to have unlicensed guns for hunting and sport, or to protect us from a police state?

Trust the evidence, not the police, on the long-gun registry

Read more: fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 … z0xp18n300

A training program like CORE, a screening for a FAC to obtain one is more than adequate. There is no need for the gov’t to know who owns which long gun. None. Zero.
It’s more than obvious to anyone the money wasted on the program could have been better used stopping the smuggling of illegal hand guns and restricted weapons.
How many ‘crimes’ were committed with a rifle? Eliminate the ones that were for registry offences and what’s left makes the case.
Of course the Police Chiefs would never gather such data, would they?

Just like cars.

A driver training training program, a screening for a drivers license to obtain one is more than adequate. There is no need for the gov’t to know who owns which car. None. Zero.

I’m still confused about the opposition to registration. Is it because people think that they need to have unregistered guns for hunting and sport, or do they need to have unregistered guns to protect them from the government?

Most of us oppose the long-gun registry because of the cost. The first effort cost $2B and was a complete failure. Added to that is the fact most gun crimes are committed with handguns. If the police then go to your home and you are a registered gun owner you then face harsher tactics even though you might be a perfectly legal gun owner. It’s just more BS and cost for nothing.

I get opposition based on cost. I understand and agree with that.

I also, sorta, understand opposition based on the use of long guns for hunting and sport. But then I ask, well, what does the fact that a rifle is registered to a particular person have to do with its use for hunting and sport? Is an unregistered rifle better at hunting than a registered one? I don’t know. But ok, I’ll go along with it.

But when the opposition is based on World Government conspiracies, based on the American NRA’s propaganda – when people say they need assault rifles to protect us from a police state – then screw that. I’m in favour of a gun registry. When people say that we need unregistered assault rifles because of “Poor imigration policy” then I’m in favour of a gun registry. Marc Lepine was born in Canada, by the way.

Next you’ll be calling people ‘sheeple’ and accusing them of drinking the kool aid.

Marc Lapine was also a member of the military with access to all kinds of weapons. He brought quite an arsenal with him for his cowardly act. Gun registration would have no effect in that case.

As for name-calling, I’ll leave that to you as I have no need for it.

I’ll have to echo some of that. I think we had the same kind of conversation before on HTMF, Soggy, but it was about Bill C-26, but I brought up the gun control thing as an example: bit.ly/aJY16V

Basically, public perception matters. Don’t let the conspiracy people take the lead in a legitimate debate. Because for most Canadians, they’ll just see “nutcases with guns” and instantly make up their minds.

[quote=“MiG”]If you want to have serious debate, then you don’t let those who are outside of the mainstream lead that debate. You’ll lose. Your average Canadian would react better to you, Soggy, or to you, Jesus, than the guy in the video. But as long as every pro-legalization lobby is hijacked by the guys who come across as Cheech and Chong, then the average Canadian will just write it off as a bunch of stoners.

Remember the gun control debate? The government didn’t even have to take part in the debate. It just let the NRA and its Canadian wannabe-NRAs take the lead in the anti-gun control side, and your average Canadian didn’t get to hear a reasoned and logical debate from an average hunter. Instead, the average Canadian just saw Charlton Heston raising an AK-47 and yelling “from my cold dead hands!” on a Calgary stage. Bingo, the fight is lost.

So if you’re serious about winning the debate with reason and logic, then you have to realize that your average Canadian is your target. You have to reach them and change their perception that the pro-legalization lobby is just a bunch of stoners.[/quote]

Sadly, the public face of the anti-registration people is usually a Charlton Heston-type, or more recently, a “Sarah Palin/9-11 Was an Inside Job/One World Government” type. I don’t see reasonable debate coming from sports or hunting guys instead. They’ve been hijacked.

If I were Nathan Cullen, I wouldn’t want to be associated with those guys, that’s for sure.

When I read the subject line, I thought it was about my long gun needing a registry. Then I read your posts and realized it was something completely different. Also it’s not so long

On topic, guns are great. And they don’t just belong to crazies. They also belong to the mentally deficient. And adults living with high school insecurities. Mailmen with too much caffeine. And don’t forget vigilantes on a New York train with a bend against black people. We could not define the role these people play if we didn’t have guns.

Think about all of society’s improvements since the invention of the gun: revoltutions everywhere, JFK’s assasination, MLK’s assasination, John Lennon’s assasination, Ronald Regan’s attempted assasination (we were so close), two world wars (the first one ignited by the assasination of Franz Ferdinand), killing two of Saddam Hussein’s sons in Iraq, putting Old Yellar out of his misery and so forth. Yup, without the gun we wouldn’t have all these great memories in human culling.

Even with all these wonderful moments in human history, the main thing is that anyone and everyone should own a gun so that the government doesn’t get ya. They are watching you all the time. Heck, right now. Yes, right now. I saw some Canadian Rangers driving their pick up truck around town today. They passed me by in the Tim Horton’s parking lot. What could this paramilitary force be doing in Prince Rupert? Watching our weight. They heard the town was booming. They are here to keep us all under control.

But who allows them to decide what a healthy meal is? We decide. It’s our lives. Doughnuts don’t cause heart attacks. People cause heart attacks. And they cause people. And they kill them.

Hell, I wish the Internet had long guns. I could use one right now. I would love to kill something. It’s just so… natural. But then the federal government would make me register it and then I would probably end up in a vitual prison for virtually killing everyone with my virtual gun for virtuous reasons.

Let me represent you views. As you can see, I am not a crazy voice like those Hestons and Palins. But I see the role the gun plays in society. Vote Huh? and the WTF Party in the next federal election. We’ll set those heartless, bleeding Liberals straight.

It is amazing how people who claim to be “liberal” can take one isolated crime and use that crime to stereotype and blame two million gun owners, Sigmund freud said that a fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual maturity and for those of you who would give up your property or civil liberty in order to accept the socially engineered sense of security you think you’ll find by registering firearms youre sadly mistaken. My issue is that these are private citizens personal property and confiscation has already occured in this country, read on especially the last sentence.

Canada: Where Gun Registration Equals Confiscation “Let us not hear that (registration) is a prelude to the confiscation by the government of hunting rifles and shotguns,” Canadian Justice Minister Allan Rock said in Clintonesque tones on Feb. 16, 1995. “There is no reason to confiscate legally owned firearms.”

Ten months after Rock’s remarks, Parliament passed the Canadian Firearms Act, and confiscating legally owned firearms is precisely the first thing the new law did. The first of three major provisions to go into effect banned private ownership of well more than half of Canada’s legally registered pistols. Any handgun of .32 or .25 caliber and any handgun with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.14") or less–more than 553,000 legally registered handguns–became illegal with the stroke of a pen.

Pistol owners, of course, had been promised that registration would never lead to confiscation when Canada’s national handgun registry was enacted in 1934. When the newer law passed five years ago, they were given three options: sell their handguns to any dealer or individual legally qualified to buy them (not a real option because the number of potential buyers was so small); render them inoperable; or surrender them to the government without compensation.

The second phase of the new law requires a government-issued firearms owner license. As of Jan. 1, 2001, anyone who owns a shotgun or rifle but did not apply for a license faces five years in prison and a $2,000 fine. These licenses are also required to buy a long gun, or if you just want to buy a box of rifle cartridges to put in Dad’s Christmas stocking.

The third phase of the new law goes into effect Jan. 1, 2003, when each individual long gun must be registered.

If summarily outlawing possession of more than half the nation’s legally registered handguns were not enough to raise a firestorm of criticism, the licensing and registration program for long guns has prompted an unprecedented and broad-based call for civil disobedience. This is remarkable for Canadians, who are exceedingly deferential to the government and the courts.

The government has a serious credibility problem brought on by its refusal to release reliable cost figures for implementing and maintaining its licensing and registration scheme, gross exaggerations of the gun crime problem, and deliberate underestimates of the number of guns and gun owners in Canada.

Anne McLellan is Rock’s Liberal Party colleague and his successor as Justice Minister. She has been called “Canada’s Janet Reno.” As recently as 1999, she promised in a letter to the Toronto Star that licensing and registration fees would cover 100 percent of the cost of implementing and maintaining the new licensing and registration bureaucracy.
But members of Parliament say they have been grievously misled about the final cost of the licensing and registration program. They claim bureaucrats in Ottawa are illegally concealing true budget figures in fear of further fueling public outrage.

Garry Breitkreuz, Member of Parliament (MP) from Saskatchewan and leader of the parliamentary opposition to the Firearms Act, told American Rifleman in a telephone interview that the government’s claim that its licensing and registration system could be implemented for $85 million over five years is “pure poppycock.”

"The government has admitted on three separate occasions . . . that since handgun registration was implemented in 1934, not one single crime in Canada has been solved using the national pistol registry."

--MP Garry Breitkreuz

“Justice Minister Allan Rock told the House of Commons that the cost of setting up the . . .system would be $85 million spread over five years,” Breitkreuz said. “Justice Minister Anne McLellan is desperately trying to convince Canadian taxpayers that the start-up costs for the Liberal gun registry will top out at $120 million.”

David Austin, spokesman for the Canadian Firearms Center, the Department of Justice branch that administers provisions of the new law, said the $85 million figure was merely “an estimate of the start-up costs,” and that the actual figure was $120 million. He said the total cost over five years will be $327 million.

Breitkreuz counters, “The government is using cabinet secrecy provisions to hide the real budget numbers. It’s going to cost at least 10 times (the original $85 million) amount just to put in the licensing system, and even that will not cover the cost of registering individual guns.”

Although he said he has been “stonewalled every step of the way” and denied all the budget documents he has requested, Breitkreuz said his office has obtained spreadsheets that indicate the cost surpassed $300 million a year ago.
Just one contractor involved in getting the licensing and registration system up and running, EDS Canada, had five revisions to one contract that resulted in a 325 percent cost overrun, and a second contract had six revisions resulting in a 319 percent cost increase.

Dennis Young, a former Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officer and now a parliamentary staff member for Breitkreuz, challenged McLellan’s claim that the system would be self-supporting based on fee collection. “As of August 11, they’d only collected $17 million in owner license fees, and they had to refund $1.2 million because of the reduced fee,” cut from $30 to $10 to encourage compliance. "This is not just a little blunder. The taxpayer is footing the bill for the government to deliberately mislead Parliament."
While Austin, the Justice Department spokesman, told American Rifleman that the system would require a staff of 400 for the processing center in New Brunswick, Breitkreuz said he has documents indicating that 391 RCMP officers have been re-assigned to the effort, along with at least another 600 civilian staff members. A separate registry is being set up for Quebec, the MP said. The New York Times pegged the registry workforce at 1,500, and Edmonton Journal columnist Lorne Gunter, a critic of the new law, said the real figure is closer to 1,700.

And the personnel numbers may go higher. Local and provincial governments in western Canada, angered, in part, by the continual juggling of numbers, have refused to enforce the new law. As a result, the central government was forced to federalize each province’s Chief Firearms Officer.

Cost and personnel numbers aside, Breitkreuz said, “Even if you license every single gun owner, and lay a registration paper by every gun, you’ve done nothing to make our lives safer, our government better, or to reduce crime. There’s no benefit to society. Enforcing all this paperwork ties up police resources and thus gives criminals an advantage. It’s just politics used to create the impression with the public that the government is improving their quality of life. The only useful purpose registration can serve is as a blueprint if the government later decides on confiscation. It in no way prevents crime.”

Also at issue in the Canadian government’s numbers game are how many long guns and how many gun owners there are in the nation. License applications came in painfully slowly, indicating potentially enormous compliance problems, until a last-minute rush in December.

The Justice Department’s Austin said the government believes there are 2.2 million gun owners among Canada’s 30 million citizens. He said 1.8 million owners applied for licenses by the deadline, a compliance rate of about 80 percent, and he estimated that the remainder will sell, disable or surrender their firearms.

Bruce Hutton, a former Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officer who founded the Law abiding Unregistered Firearms Ass’n to urge civil disobedience of the new law, said the government has, over the past few years, continually lowered its estimates on the numbers of guns and gun owners in Canada. Their goal is obvious–make the compliance numbers look more favorable.

“The government is lying to everyone,” Hutton said. “About 10 years ago, the RCMP Solicitor General conducted a study and, based on retail and manufacturing figures, estimated the number of gun owners at 4 to 6 million. Since then, the government has revised its estimate on the number of owners downward, to 3.6 million, then 3.3 million and now 2.2 million. I’m sure it’s at least twice that number.”

Citing other RCMP data, the pro-gun Canadian Institute for Legislative Action (CILA) estimates that as many as 7 million people in the country own a total of 21 million firearms.

“The government doesn’t want people to know this because it will show the licensing plan for the dismal failure that it is,” Hutton said. “Registration will be even worse. The law is a farce. Civil disobedience will make it meaningless. It’s a travesty, a terrible law.”

Gary Mauser, a professor and public policy researcher at Simon Frazier University in British Columbia, agrees. “The Firearms Act expands the grounds for warrantless searches, reduces restraints on issuing warrants and requires people to testify against themselves,” Mauser said in one report. “Such sweeping police powers . . . authorize police procedures that (would) violate the U.S. Fourth Amendment’s protection against warrantless searches and the Fifth Amendment’s protections (of) due process.”

Like similar gun control campaigns in the U.S., supporters of Canada’s new law began pushing their agenda amidst the widespread emotional anguish over the murder of 14 women at a Montreal college by a deranged gunman in 1989.

Chanting the cheerfully mindless mantras of public safety and fighting crime, Liberal Party stalwarts pushed the new law as benign. If it makes sense to register automobiles, they argued, isn’t it reasonable to register guns and gun owners?
But applicants for a Canadian driver’s license are not asked about their employment and medical history. They are not asked if they’ve filed for bankruptcy or divorce in the past two years. They are not asked if they’ve experienced the “breakdown of a significant relationship.” Canadians now must reveal such private information and more when they apply for a firearms license.

Like many gun control laws in this country, Canada’s Firearms Act was peddled as a badly needed “tool” against crime. But the Canadian government’s own numbers tell a different story. Sprawled across five time zones, Canada historically has had a very low rate of gun-related crime. Even Austin, the Justice Department spokesman, concedes that gun-related crimes and gun-related deaths, whether homicide, suicide or accidental, have been in steady decline for the past several years.

“The government has admitted on three separate occasions in the past few years that since handgun registration was implemented in 1934, not one single crime in Canada has been solved using the national pistol registry,” MP Breitkreuz said.

On the other hand, Canada’s Ministry of Justice, in a document entitled “Self Defense in Canada,” acknowledges that firearms are used about 32,000 times a year for self-protection from criminal activity. CILA cites a 1997 study by Mauser, the Simon Frazier University researcher, saying that when animal attacks that have been prevented with guns are added in, the annual self-defense number doubles to 64,000 incidents.

“If we remove suicides, which are generally considered to be non-preventable,” CILA reports, “approximately 40 lives are saved for every life lost with a firearm in Canada,” based on the government’s 32,000 annual figure. “Consider that 44 percent of rural Canadian households own firearms, compared to 11 percent in cities. Yet the violent crime rate in Canadian cities is 40 percent higher than in rural areas.”

But the government has used numbers that indicate a much more serious problem with gun-related crime. The Liberal Party, in particular, has been widely scorned for falsifying such figures to push its political agenda.

RCMP Commissioner Philip Murray complained in a letter to the Justice Minister that his department had greatly overstated the number of gun crimes in Canada for 1993. For instance, Justice figures for that year showed 623 gun-related crimes, but Murray said the real number was 73; and of the 333 homicides investigated by Mounties that year, only six involved a firearm.

Gunter reported in the Edmonton Journal that "the Department of Justice overestimated the number of gun crimes in the country by nearly 10-fold and exaggerated the cost of treating gunshot wounds by nearly 100-fold . … ."
Gunter believes a 1996 speech by Liberal Party Senator Sharon Carstairs unveiled the real motivation behind Canada’s Firearms Act. Sen. Carstairs reportedly told members of the Community Legal Education Ass’n that the new law was a keystone in her party’s blueprint to “socially re-engineer Canada.” (Carstairs denies making the statement, but she is refuted by two individuals who shared the platform with her when she gave her speech.)
“The Liberals believe (the new law) would re-engineer Canada, and especially male gun owners, making its citizens more docile,” Gunter wrote. His is the last word here:
“When lawmakers trample centuries-old liberties without offering an overwhelming social good in return . . . then respect for the law dies and the rule of law along with it.”

Oh yeah. Good point fatty. I love the sexual feeling of a long gun in my hands. We should talk over a doughnut.

[quote=“toofattofly”]Just keep drinking the kool aid, while we slide closer and closer to a police state.

                "The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police is of the firm opinion that a Charter of Rights and Freedoms enshrined in the Constitution is neither necessary nor desirable"
                                 [ualberta.ca/~clement2/cacp.pdf](http://www.ualberta.ca/~clement2/cacp.pdf)

[/quote]

That 1980 paper would be most interesting and relevant if we could travel back in time to when Pierre Trudeau was prime minister and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was an idea and not part of our constitution.

Fair enough, but citing the $2B set up cost is another exercise in time travel. What’s relevant is not what setting up the registry cost … that money is spent and gone … but what it costs to maintain the registry … assuming that cost is really the basis for opposing the registry. The RCMP report estimates that the long gun registry costs $1.1M to 3.6M to operate. Iggy’s proposed changes … eliminating fees etc … are estimated to cost $15M.

[quote=“Soggy”]Marc Lapine was also a member of the military with access to all kinds of weapons. He brought quite an arsenal with him for his cowardly act. Gun registration would have no effect in that case.
[/quote]

Marc Lepine … who murdered 14 women at Ecole Polytechnique in 1989 and wounded several others … is a counter-example to your argument that the registry should be abolished. He was rejected by the Canadian Forces. He was armed with the sports model of a Ruger Mini-15 semi-automatic rifle … a small calibre long gun … which he’d purchased at a local sporting goods store.

You are probably thinking of Denis Lortie who killed 3 people at the Quebec National assembly building in 1984. He was a CF member and although in a non-combat trade got access to 2 unsecured C-1 sub-machine guns. Military control of firearms is a different issue … the upcoming vote is about abolition of the civilian long gun registry.

[quote=“herbie_popnecker”]Trust the evidence, not the police, on the long-gun registry

Read more: fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 … z0xp18n300
[/quote]

Chris Selley presents no evidence pertaining to gun registration other than that she hasn’t read the RCMP report saying that the registry is “cost effective in reducing firearms related crime and promoting public safety”.

[quote=“BTravenn”]Marc Lepine … who murdered 14 women at Ecole Polytechnique in 1989 and wounded several others … is a counter-example to your argument that the registry should be abolished. He was rejected by the Canadian Forces. He was armed with the sports model of a Ruger Mini-15 semi-automatic rifle … a small calibre long gun … which he’d purchased at a local sporting goods store.

You are probably thinking of Denis Lortie who killed 3 people at the Quebec National assembly building in 1984. He was a CF member and although in a non-combat trade got access to 2 unsecured C-1 sub-machine guns. Military control of firearms is a different issue … the upcoming vote is about abolition of the civilian long gun registry.
[/quote]

Quite right, I mixed up the two incidents. Thanks for the correction.

FTR, the new mandatory minimum bill has been reintroduced as Bill S-10.

No thanks,
you’d probably want to make me register my coffee and confiscate my donut anyways.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control and from 1929 to 1953,
about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control and from 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were r ounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of
13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935 and from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political
dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964 and from 1964 to 1981, 100,000
Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970 and from 1971 to 1979, 300,000
Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956 and from 1975 to 1977, one million
educated’ people, unable to defend themselves, w ere rounded up and
exterminated.
------------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
because of gun control: 56 million.

yeah rifles dont have to be registered anymore … just hand guns

[quote=“herbie_popnecker”]Trust the evidence, not the police, on the long-gun registry

Read more: fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 … z0xp18n300

A training program like CORE, a screening for a FAC to obtain one is more than adequate. There is no need for the gov’t to know who owns which long gun. None. Zero.
It’s more than obvious to anyone the money wasted on the program could have been better used stopping the smuggling of illegal hand guns and restricted weapons.
How many ‘crimes’ were committed with a rifle? Eliminate the ones that were for registry offences and what’s left makes the case.
Of course the Police Chiefs would never gather such data, would they?[/quote]

Yes thats it in a nutshell …