LNG plant killed in Prince Rupert

General Forums Prince Rupert Forum
21

Not quite sure how we’ve “recovered” from the mill closure, we’ve lost some 8000 in population, increased the tax load to those that remained behind, and haven’t really replaced those full time and well compensated jobs with any other full time, well compensated jobs.

While the Port will of course help out in that regard, we still aren’t where we were.

The current real estate boom still seems more speculative than fact based and to top that off, the places that once housed those that couldn’t afford too much for rent are kicking them out and jacking up the rents…

So, illuminate us, oh Nostradamus, what else is on the way for us… that isn’t going to fall in the farsical situation of hype… 

22

No disrespect Mcsash, but I really have to ask you what has Rupert really got to look forward to other than a container port, and possible lost opportunity for development.  Ask Hollywood Herb how many conferences he has been on regarding the container port and what we can do in this city to be apart of the spin-off.  Hollywood has no problem spending our tax dollars to travel around the country saying he is promoting Prince Rupert, but we never hear the outcome.  I will tell you why, I have personally been on some of those conferences with our Mayor, and if he shows up, his ear is attached to a cell phone.  I would love to hold a forum in this community, free of charge and hear and share ideas on how we see ourselves fitting into this growth and what we can do to improve our economic situation. 

23

Like many other small towns in Canada, Prince Rupert has suffered from the Canadian reliance on primary industries, increasing free trade, and the demand for ever cheaper consumer goods and corporate profits

in fact, the newly hyped container port is a symptom of these problems, not really a solution.  Instead of providing a sustainable industrial base, the container port is merely a transit point for cheap consumer products produced and assembled elsewhere and imported into North America.  Steel, a once major Canadian product of cities like Hamilton, Ontario, is now produced in greater quantities and for lower prices in China than anywhere in the West.  Yes, there will be jobs as a result of overseas production, but these are in a nutshell service sector jobs, and these kinds of jobs come with their own costs.  Due to the interconnectedness of international trade…one needs only look at the forestry industry, currently hit hard by a collapsing US housing market…the profitability of the port (and other projects like it), depends highly on success in overseas markets…furthermore, and it is ironic indeed, success in overseas markets often comes at the direct expense of local markets…

Everyone likes $1.99 tube socks, consumers like them because they are cheap, businesses like them because they sell, governments like them because through increased corporate profits, they drive economic growth, but this all comes at what cost…We have sold out stable, unionized, industrial jobs of yore, with prescribed benefit pensions and other benefits for 20$ DVD players, 10$ microwaves, and the hopes of one day being a WalMart greeter.  Sure, you can remove free trade, and raise tariffs, but the results would be disastrous for the economy (as the economists currently define it) ;nobody wants to pay extra for their toothpaste (even if it’s sometimes tainted with chemicals), and with current falling real wages, can you really blame them…

Ironically, plans are in the works to develop a major container port in Mexico…why you ask?  That sea route is even farther than current sea routes to major ports in LA, Seattle and Vancouver…the answer again lies in the pursuit of profits and cheap consumer goods…Mexican docks are not unionized…you may soon get your 2$ tennis balls, but what are the costs not calculated into the sale price.? As long as there is continued demand for cheaper and cheaper products and steadily increasing profits driving artificial economic growth, closed pulp mills and killed LNG plant plans will continue to be the wave of the future

This by the way was typed on a computer I was able to purchase thanks to cheap, cheap Chinese labour

24

Interesting post! :smiley:
Welcome to HTMF, leftofcentre!

25

AMD X2 6000+ CPU w fan $285.00 - 1,000 board feet of 2x4 $285.00
goddam unions, look what they’ve done to us. No wonder we’re pouring investments into places like Bhopal
http://op-for.com/mr%20burns.jpg

Not just the non-union port, the super-highway to the port will allow non-union Mexican truckers to run uninspected vehicles to Kansas City, even Winnipeg.
But it’s totally an urban myth. That’s why all discussions are behind closed doors between unelected officials.

26

So aside from the container port development, what large-scale projects are definitely going to be happening in the area over the next two or three years? I have friends moving back there in anticipation of full time employment and now I’m beginning to wonder if they’ve made those plans a little too soon perhaps. As much as I’m hoping for the best for Rupert, I also don’t like seeing residents having their hopes dashed over and over again either…

:confused:

27

I’m not sure.  I think there will be some spin-off benefits to Prince Rupert once the container port starts up.  It will be interesting to see what happens.

28

Well, yes, the supposed NAFTA superhighway is an urban myth, but Mexican port development is not entirely.  Currently plans are underway to develop a container port at Punta Colonet, south of San Diego, CA.  As well, Mexican truckers are now allowed to drive into the US, but with limitations…you can’t blame them for wanting to either, even they want their $10 microwave…anyway, the issue is not one of myths, but ultimate sustainability (not just of the port, but of a WalMart driven economy)…this is in no means a critique of unions, but a critique of a culture in which unions are increasingly shunned for being inhibitors of profit (though let’s not forget, unions are a creation of capitalism, striving along with important work safety improvements for the increased material demands of their members…the Fordist compromise meant capital compromised with labour to allow trade unions to ensure that workers would have the opportunity to continue to participate in the market when sick, injured, old, etc…to avoid the oversupply/lack of demand problems of the Depression)

As for spinoff jobs, sure don’t worry, there will be…but many again will be service sector jobs, but this is true no matter where you go now…3/4s of Canadians now work in the services sector (12% in retail alone).  Nonetheless, Canada never had great development of its manufacturing sector anyway, with its reliance on primary industries, but these too are slowly lagging…a job however to those who need them is a job, and blame does not lie with those who need work, but with those who are responsible for the political ether in which jobs are created…interests are at play, and unfortunately those interests do not always correspond with the interests of the wage-enslaved, the unemployed, or those on the margins of society

thanks to Hitest for the welcome…

29

I agree with much of what has been said to this point.  The one thing that has been over-looked in this thread so far is the opportunity that North American industry has to ship their products to Asian Markets.  From what I gather there is alot of effort being taken to ensure that containers are shipped back to China full.  There is obviously high demand for cheap, Chinese made products in North America.  An opportunity is presenting itself for North American companies to provide something going the other way.  I know that there are empty containers being shipped back to China on a regular basis but the opportunity is there to capitalize on shipping some unique Canadian and North American items.

30

yes, that is something you’re quite right about…the key however is to find what exactly is in demand in China that we produce (that can be containerized)…most containers are going back to China empty, and can be purchased for about 40$.  One Chinese billionaire made her fortune by realizing this, and deciding the perfect export was N. American scrap cardboard which was actually cheaper to export to China and recycle there than recycle in N. America.  However, it’s finding what is in demand in the region that they cannot produce themselves or that we can produce cheaper…ironically enough that may very well be the primary resources that will dwindle as China destroys her environment…unfortunately however, it will likely be cheaper to simply harvest them raw here and export them unfinished (to be finished in China), then to finish them in Canada

31

I read a book a few years ago which I believe was called Mindset.  Basically it discussed change in employment in society and how with every negative aspect of change there was positive aspect to consider.

It discussed how over the past 100 years or so some traditional employment and industries were becoming obsolete.  For example, 100 years ago there were more blacksmiths, carriage builders, farriers and farmers.

Traditonal employment and industry gave way to new and exciting opportunities.

Today there are computer programmers, airplane pilots, electricians and mechanics to name a few.

However relevant to North America’s trade with China, I think this is the type of outlook that we may need to have.  The winds of change are blowing in on us and we need to look forward to the opportunities that these changes may present.

32

I am hopeful that these changes will for the most part benefit out community.  It would be nice if our community could have some say in what happens to us.
Is the Captain awake in the wheelhouse?

33

People do it to themselves. If you shop at walmart you are part of the reason for low paying jobs so dont complain when you get one  :wink:

Personally I dont shop at walmart  or any other mega corporation.

34

That I find hard to believe. You buy everything you exist on from “mom and pop” independent stores?

35

I try whenever possible to buy my technology related stuff from a little guy here in PR.  I did buy some cheap CD-Rs from Walmart in Terrace though:-(
You do make an excellent point, jesus!  The consumer ultimately controls the economic landscape.

36

My pessimistic fellow poster.  I will enlighten you or “illuminate"you.  In an ealier post I did contradict myself by saying that the city should reclaim skeena cell land and operate the mill. 
What I wanted to say was to reclaim the land…scrap most of it by selling of equipment.  Basically have a fire sale and use the whare houses and land for future spin offs. Mike I apologize for the contradiction and leave it to the likes of you to pick up on it.
We will have major opportunity to fill empty containers and ship them to the orient.  I think a good idea would be to start a Prince Rupert bottled water plant and send water westward.  Bottled water is at a 3000% percent mark up.
How did we loose 8000 people?  maybe during a summer fishing season and a mill shutdown…and a floatilla of cruiseships.  I have lived here all my life and we never had an additional 8000 people here my friend.  Those numbers are skewed my son.
The past 6yrs will be seen as a sort term cyclical down turn followed by major growth and expansion.
Really …heres an example…I know a"guy” who started at the mill in 1990 and worked unitl closure in 2001.  Of those 11 yrs there was MAYBE 2 yrs of continous employment.  The other years were cut short by strike, lockout, layoff, inventory shuts etc.
With the container port that will hardly occur, in the frequency that was skeena. 
Like I have said on previous posts and I wil stick to my guns…the world is watching, more importantly CANADA is watching and this place will boom.  People are moving back in droves.
The powers that be are hiking rents…real estate is booming…you ask why?
because thats what the current market is dictating.  Take that to the bank cause the property owners sure as hell will.
As for Herb …council swatchs OC subject is doing what any responsible CEO would do.  Like him or leave him, (personally I think he just rambles too much) hes doing what he should, selling the city.
Iam way beter looking than nostradamus… :smiley:

37

It’s hard to fault anyone who will shop at a large box store such as a Wal Mart.  With increased housing prices, escpecially in the large urbans centers, and increases in things like gasoline and natural gas, something has to give somewhere.  Can’t really blame anyone for trying to reduce or control their expenses. 

38
True.  But, the trend of out-sourcing and going with the cheapest products and services in the end does help to contribute to lower paying jobs and a lower standard of living.  Our current BC government hates well-paid unions. It is sad that the number one force that is re-shaping society is the all-mighty buck.
39

The pursuit of furthered profits is the hallmark of capitalism…without it nobody invests in corporations, nobody invests in your currency, and the whole thing collapses…unfortunately that means those that produce profits have a decided advantage over those that do not and are reduced to merely selling their labour to get by

[quote] The powers that be are hiking rents…real estate is booming…you ask why?
because thats what the current market is dictating. [/quote]

In an ideal free market sure…there can be no such thing as unaffordable housing…when prices exceed what the market will bare, demand will fall, causing prices to fall seeking market equilibrium.  In practice however, things are not quite so picturesque…mortgages are increased, risky high-interest loans are floated (until these too become unsustainable re: the US at the moment)…sustainability is breached for the desire to have a house, 2 cars (including at least one SUV), 2.5 kids and a dog…oh yeah and profits (the banks profits, the realtor profits, the auto-makers profit)…the cycle continueth…until the bottom falls out…and then you’re left with massive debt, a cardboard box, and a slow realization that the food bank isn’t as gourmet as you’ve been lead to believe

Time to invest in a sustainable future my friends, not only for us, but also for those forced to feed our ever increasing desires for the latest detritus of capitalism, the flotsam and jetsam of the free market