The Kitkatla (Gitxaala) First Nation has filed a claim against the City of Prince Rupert in the Supreme Court of BC over the proposed sale of Watson Island, claiming the City has failed to properly consult with the Nation.
And,so,the gong show continues…they won’t be satisfied till we give it all to them and f…off.
Greed… and people wonder why corporations are hesitent to do business here.
Well I guess the city won’t be issuing any purchase orders out of Rona in the near future then.
Just another example of Kitkatla pretending to have rights and titile in the harbour. They didn’t have any interests in the area until money was tied to any developement, by way of accomodation requirements associated with the port developement. On the other hand this ,Supreme Court action , will bring conclusion, once and for all to the first Nations fighting over accomodation money, ending the uncertainty around business development.
I think you been sniffing Ajays glue. I believe Kitkatla had a blockade up within the last 2 months, do you really think there will ever be an end to the uncertainty in this region?
[quote=“chookie”]
I think you been sniffing Ajays glue. I believe Kitkatla had a blockade up within the last 2 months, do you really think there will ever be an end to the uncertainty in this region?[/quote]
Maybe when the government and courts stop caving in to the demands of a bunch of radicals.
Who do these people or should I say :“Elmer Moody” really-think he is! He got his hands slapped real good with the blockade he put up at Oona River. People of Prince Rupert this could have a long term and devastating effect on our livelyhood. Again I think everybody needs to BOYCOTT RONA PRINCE RUPERT and PACIFIC INN PRINCE RUPERT, along with any other business Kitkatla Band owns or has control over. I would really like to know what Canpotax thinks of this latest move. This would be hitting them closer than we can imagine. Please people stand up to them or pack up and we all move to the reserve and live off them… we have to… BOYCOTT,BOYCOTT,BOYCOTT!
hmmm one would think with the blockade in Oona River, and rumours this was going to happen, that our City Council and Senior Management would have done something to prevent this from happening!!
So here we go again and the city taxes will keep going up to pay for all the legal costs of what? If we had senior management that was doing their job in the first place and be proactive vs reactive, they would have saved the tax payers a lot of money and head ache.
This does reflect on the leadership from our council as there are over half with more than one term experience. It’s not the citizens that are making these decisions, we voted council members to take the reins and make good decisions. If you are making decisions on what is presented to you from management, perhaps you need to get out in the community and listen to the people, not just the few in your circle and make sure you have all the information.
Question: When are the citizens going to hear from this council the truth about what is going on? This is a mess and rather than raising taxes to cover up the mistakes and mismanagement, what value are the citizens getting from their hard earn dollar? No wonder people are going to leave once their children are done at the end of school term.
[quote=“Bettyboop86”]hmmm one would think with the blockade in Oona River, and rumours this was going to happen, that our City Council and Senior Management would have done something to prevent this from happening!!
So here we go again and the city taxes will keep going up to pay for all the legal costs of what? If we had senior management that was doing their job in the first place and be proactive vs reactive, they would have saved the tax payers a lot of money and head ache.
This does reflect on the leadership from our council as there are over half with more than one term experience. It’s not the citizens that are making these decisions, we voted council members to take the reins and make good decisions. If you are making decisions on what is presented to you from management, perhaps you need to get out in the community and listen to the people, not just the few in your circle and make sure you have all the information.
Question: When are the citizens going to hear from this council the truth about what is going on? This is a mess and rather than raising taxes to cover up the mistakes and mismanagement, what value are the citizens getting from their hard earn dollar? No wonder people are going to leave once their children are done at the end of school term.[/quote]
While I share your sentiment that the city officials are not doing their job it is hardly fair to blame the city for the actions of a bunch of litigious assholes.
[quote=" …City has failed to properly consult with the Nation. [/quote]
Aw geez, this phrase just might be a tad over-used. What is happening now is whenever this phrase forms the central part of an argument or claim, people, and now courts, don’t buy-in.
It now resembles, “I did it because I had a troubled childhood, so you can’t blame me.”[/quote]
[quote=“PinchLoaf”]
[quote=" …City has failed to properly consult with the Nation. [/quote]
It now resembles, “I did it because I had a troubled childhood, so you can’t blame me.”[/quote]
Except, the duty for the crown to consult and accomodate is a constitutionally protected right, where as, your childhood is just your excuse.
As for the uncertainty, in the harbour and areas north of the mouth of the Skeena, Supreme Court action will eliminate one First Nations out of the equation, which equals - Greater Certainty!!![/quote]
Ah geez, you are right…to a degree.
The duty to consult is proportionate to the strength of the Aboriginal claim; it does not give First Nations a right to veto, and requires good faith "on both sides”.
You will find agreement in your dismissal of early life occurrences. There is a limit to what compensation, if any compensation one should receive. Are you saying, yeah that brings a tear to my eye…suck it up bukko?
“Strength of claim” is a key term here, BC’s court of appeal say that Kitkatla has no valid claim, North of the mouth of the Skeena River!!!
atowncalledpodunk.blogspot.com/2 … tatus.html
I highy doubt that. By my reading of the Northern View article Kitkatla isn’t setting out to prove that it has aboriginal rights around here. It is saying that because it has asserted (not proved) aboriginal rights the City is obliged to consult and accommodate just as the Crown would be obliged to consult and, where appropriate, accommodate if it was Crown land.
Think back to the Haida decision over the Weyerhauser TFL on the islands (in 2004 if I recall). The Haida said that the Crown and the company both had duties to consult and accommodate when the province approved the sale of the TFL. The BC appeal court agreed. The Supreme Court of Canada confirmed that the Crown had to consult and accommodate, but ruled that “third parties” like Weyerhauser did not have those duties when decisions that may affect asserted aboriginal rights are being considered.
But the “third party” in that case was a private corporation. The City, like every municipality in the province, is a public corporation. Is the City a “third party” like the company in the Haida case? Or is the City a creation of the Crown such that it has the same duties to consult and accommodate as the Crown? Kitkatla appears to be saying the latter. It was probably only a matter of time before this kind of issue came before the courts.
This could turn out to be a very, very costly case, particularly if it ends up being appealed. The feds and the province have many lawyers and are well prepared to take on test cases, rather than negotiate or legislation solutions. That seems to be part of how government operates; sometimes it’s better to take contentious issues to court and let the judiciary clarify the situation.
But Prince Rupert is just a small city that has been in decline for a long time, with a city government that has a lot of debt and not much cash. Many of its citizens, aboriginal and non-aboriginal, are struggling or just getting by. As disappointed as I am at times with how the civic leaders operate, I don’t blame them at all for this situation.
I think that this court case is very bad news for the us, even leaving aside the potential for scaring away investment that others have commented on. It won’t bring certainty about aboriginal title in the vicinity of Watson Island and the Port. It will only bring certainty about whether city government has the same duties as the Crown when aboriginal rights and title are asserted (not proved) on city lands.
If chief Moody’s goal was to bring certainty in terms of who has what rights to what land or water, he would negotiate a treaty with Canada and BC that settles those issues once and for all. Or he would do like one small band in the Interior who went to court and after presenting much evidence proved to the satisfaction of the court that they have aboriginal rights in a particular area (wild horse habitat) that they wanted to protect from logging (good for them, I say). But Kitkatla is not taking either of those approaches on this issue.
In the fisheries case you mention, by the way, the court did not rule on Kitkatla’s boundaries. It denied them intervenor status in another case; essentially leaving it to Kitkatla to prove their rights in their own court case, but not in a case brought by other claimants.
My read is that Kitkatla is wanting to maintain uncertainty about what it’s aboriginal rights (if any) around here actually consist of, so that assertions of (unproved) rights can trigger duties to consult and accommodate on the part of government; which sets the stage for negotiating concessions (who actually benefits in the end is another issue).
That is not exactly being a good partner in promoting the economic renewal of the region as a good place to live for anyone. I predict that Kitkatla will lose, but even if they win the outcome may be that a court case has forced a negotiation, but there’s not much on the table to talk about because business opportunities have gone somewhere else, where the business climate is friendlier.
Ah geez. Is this an example of what would be called ‘good faith’?
As details are being understood, the situation becomes more cloudy?!?!
I wish LaxKwalaams and Metlakatla would just take this “territorial” issue to court against Kitkatla…as for who would benifit from the uncertainty…money can flow directly to the “consultants and lawyers” for each First Nation, the people who actually hold the rights and title will get nothing, as usual!
[quote=“chiefdave”]As details are being understood, the situation becomes more cloudy?!?!
I wish LaxKwalaams and Metlakatla would just take this “territorial” issue to court against Kitkatla…as for who would benifit from the uncertainty…money can flow directly to the “consultants and lawyers” for each First Nation, the people who actually hold the rights and title will get nothing, as usual![/quote]
You have a vantage point that many of the rest of us lack, but that’s pretty much where my thoughts head. I don’t see all of the politics and litigation doing much if anything for the aboriginal people whose rights are being asserted.
Many seem to be in town making their way, as best they can in most cases, without much if any help from their bands. These political and legal issues seem to benefit lawyers, consultants and, I would add, certain political figures, rather than ordinary people.
[quote=“BTravenn”]
Many seem to be in town making their way, as best they can in most cases, without much if any help from their bands. These political and legal issues seem to benefit lawyers, consultants and, I would add, certain political figures rather than ordinary people.[/quote]
I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head there.
Who do these people or should I say :“Elmer Moody” really-think he is! He got his hands slapped real good with the blockade he put up at Oona River. People of Prince Rupert this could have a long term and devastating effect on our livelyhood. Again I think everybody needs to BOYCOTT RONA PRINCE RUPERT and PACIFIC INN PRINCE RUPERT, along with any other business Kitkatla Band owns or has control over. I would really like to know what Canpotax thinks of this latest move. This would be hitting them closer than we can imagine. Please people stand up to them or pack up and we all move to the reserve and live off them… we have to… BOYCOTT,BOYCOTT,BOYCOTT!
LMAO last time I checked the PACIFIC INN PRINCE RUPERT was not owned by the KITKATLA BAND…Sure their members stay in that hotel but they also eat in various resturants in PRINCE RUPERT, should we just BOYCOTT everything and everywhere that KITKATLA BAND MEMBERS GO??? Considering there is about 4-500 Kitkatla Band Members on the coast…Yeah lets do that BOYCOTT everwhere any KITKATLA BAND MEMBERS GO!!! RETARDED!!!