I am happy for you DH just as I am happy for other people who have found something that makes them content with the world around them. Whenever people talk “religion” my answer is to quote John Lennon “Whatever gets you through the night.”
If a philosophy encourages compassion and empathy (as yours apparently does) then it really can’t go wrong.
I am still curious. You brought up the discussion of god but you reject the concept that most people (believers and non-believers) use as the starting point of a discussion on god and that is the personal, creator, supernatural god of most religions/mythologies.
What you see as god is some kind of illumination, enlightenment or some other such word that makes you feel as if you have a better understanding of other people, nature, the whole cosmos. You get the sense that you are in unity with and at peace with everything around you. I guess you get that from some form of meditation. I am not doubting you. It just sways the discussion in an entirely different direction which is fine but again it comes down to belief. Can I believe you? Will what you do work for me? Who knows?
I am happy for you and I may be missing out on something, just as my Christian friends tell me I am missing out not having Jesus in my life. But I am pretty content muddling along as I am.
“these things are measurable, quantifiable and as such are part of this material world. What you speak of is whimsey”
What I speak of is just beyond your ability to perceive. Great men of high repute once thought the world to be flat. That’s what their 5 senses told them.
You cannot use physical senses to see something that isn’t physical. You can’t build a physical machine to do it either. Only you have this ability. So it’s clear that you must work on the self to unlock this potential. Until then, you won’t believe any of it and you shouldn’t. I don’t want people to believe what I say. I want them to see it for themselves.
Things like compassion and empathy belong to no religion. But they are hints that you have some abilities you’re not fully aware of just yet.
True religion is not a group effort, it’s an individual journey. Religions like to pack eveybody on the church bus ready or not. But the reality is people wake one at a time as they’re ready to.
The idea of a personal God deity belong to the pagan roots of modern day religions. “God” is a nebulous concept to begin with, so it has been personified for easier understanding. Same for Satan, which is a personification of your own human mind.
There is but one consciousness, yet it powers over 6 billion people here. To say nothing of what it powers outside this bubble. Once again, it’s something you have to see for yourself to understand it.
[quote=“DHCollins”]“these things are measurable, quantifiable and as such are part of this material world. What you speak of is whimsey”
What I speak of is just beyond your ability to perceive. Great men of high repute once thought the world to be flat. That’s what their 5 senses told them.
You cannot use physical senses to see something that isn’t physical. You can’t build a physical machine to do it either. Only you have this ability. So it’s clear that you must work on the self to unlock this potential. Until then, you won’t believe any of it and you shouldn’t. I don’t want people to believe what I say. I want them to see it for themselves.
But you’ve got to jump out of the nest first.
[/quote]
Sorry, I’m not about to jump into superstitious nonsense based yours or anyone else’s whimsey. You are arrogantly claiming you know about something there is no evidence for. This is not a matter of perception but one of belief — a belief I maintain that is based on whimsey because there is no other indicator and this amounts to Ayruvedic quackery.
You are welcome to live in your particular delusion but don’t think it is any different than that of your southern
Baptists. While your perspective on humanity is laudable, I don’t buy the premise.
There is no evidence because you’re still blind to it. It’s really that simple. But this blindness is curable. You have to open the heart just like you open your other eyes.
Your physical eyes only see this material world. Your inner vision sees everything else. It’s not something that can be shared among people as each has to have their own experience with it. And no, it’s not going to be believable to those who have not had it. If anything, they tend to get an inferiority complex over it.
Everything I’ve said is proveable IF you work on that part of yourself that is still blind. The practice of compassion is the only way the heart opens. It only has to open a little bit to give you glimpses of something beyond yourself. Something beyond mind and self identity you cling to like grim death.
You’ve heard by Christians and others that this world is controlled by Satan? It’s true. But it’s also highly symbolic. As I stated earlier, the Satan of religious lore is actually your own human mind. Personified into a deity. Look around you. Everything from the chair you sit in to the computer screen you’re reading from is a product of this same mind. It has a dual nature. Because the mind is in essence a kind of scale. It weighs one thing against another in order to determine worth. Duality is the software it runs on. It will always see two sides to everything. Including “God”. Light/ dark, good/evil, and so forth. The downside is the mind is spiritually blind as a bat. It can only process input from it’s 5 sensory organs. But it likes a good story about the “other side”.
The mind is a fine servant but a terrible master. It has no sense of compassion or empathy. Only cold, hard logic. You can always tell these people apart from others. They often become ruthless dictators and such. With them, the mind is in the driver’s seat while the heart is bound and gagged and riding in the trunk. They are often highly intelligent as with Nietzsche and Kant, but nearly spiritually dormant. And often angry, as intellect cannot answer all their questions. They know there’s something more however. Because even they have that built in homing device that talks at them once and a while.
So, the mind is your 800 pound gorilla sitting in the hallway blocking your view of the divine. You stand no chance of brute forcing it. It’ll just tear your arms off so you can’t do it again. But it will listen to reason. If you can convince it to move aside and turn around, it will be overwhelmed by what you show it. The heart has an ability to feed the mind in such a way that the senses cannot. It will bend a knee and be at your service from that day forward.
Such a symbiotic relationship brings with it many gifts. I never learned to type, yet here I am.
[quote=“DHCollins”]There is no evidence because you’re still blind to it. It’s really that simple. But this blindness is curable. You have to open the heart just like you open your other eyes.
Your physical eyes only see this material world. Your inner vision sees everything else. It’s not something that can be shared among people as each has to have their own experience with it. And no, it’s not going to be believable to those who have not had it. If anything, they tend to get an inferiority complex over it.
Everything I’ve said is proveable IF you work on that part of yourself that is still blind. The practice of compassion is the only way the heart opens. It only has to open a little bit to give you glimpses of something beyond yourself. Something beyond mind and self identity you cling to like grim death.
x[/quote]
I have no problem with much of what you have to say. Be more empathetic. Be more compassionate. Open yourself to new experiences. Don’t judge. You sound like a very decent person who does not use (religious) dogma to cloud his perceptions. I know some Christians who I admire for similar reasons. They go to church, seeking something. They are on their own spiritual journey and would never use church teachings to judge others.
However, how is what you are saying any different from what a Christian minister told me. “Open your heart and allow Jesus to enter. You can’t imagine the freedom you will experience.”
I have no doubt of his sincerity as I have no doubt of yours. And I have no doubt that we can be much more open to new ideas and feelings. Humankind is far from the pinnacle of perfection.
However, you seem to be saying that you won’t see it if you are unwilling to believe it possible. And you can’t see it if you don’t open your heart. And if you still don’t see it then you have to work harder. Maybe I am too lazy or too stupid or too caught up in the practicalities of life. Or maybe it’s just not there.
The heart opens on it’s own as you mature spiritually. It’s a natural part of your own evolution. It is not dependent upon religion, physical age, or anything other than worldly experience.
But there are things you can do to assist the process. Like anything here, it has a mechanism that it operates by. Once you understand what that is, it’s a matter of nurturing it. And again, religion is often the first thing people turn to. But religions are built around people who have had divine experiences. They do little to assist you in having them for yourself. Instead, they teach you rituals and laws by which to imitate them. Imitation is only imitation. It does not transform your inner being. It just makes you a mime.
Desire is not enough. It also takes ability that only comes from ripening. We may want to be like Jesus or Moses or whoever, but it is an impossibility to be anybody other than ourselves. So you must transform your inner being and not just hang a mask on your face. I often compare religion to a beard that a 10 year old boys sticks on his chin. He’s not mature enough to grow one of his own just yet, so he sticks on a fake one so he can still look the part.
I teach people to grow their own. And I also tell them if they’re too young. The best I can do for the young ones is offer encouragement.They may not want to hear it. And by and large, they’re the ones who run this world. And they still crucify people who bother them…
No offense intended there DH, but you sound like a quack.
Which is kind of sad, because I really do understand what you’re saying.
How about less fluff though.
So does it not make sense to work on perception rather than have faith in what other people say what truth “is”?
It’s easy to have faith or belief. It’s the path of least resistance. I encourage people to bite the nickle that is handed to them. Most people who follow religion never attempt it.
I can only speak from my own experiences and that’s what I do. I don’t use a book to act as a testament. I am the testament. A living proof of if I can do it, so can you. And I can help guide others down that path because I’ve already been there and know the way.
Holy books and the religions born of them are dead things. Moments and events frozen in time from long ago. They never change.
Jesus was an ordinary man. Fact or fiction, nobody really knows. But the story of Jesus is what is actually important. He was an example of what happens to a person when they wake up spiritually. Christianity turned him into a supernatural deity for worship and created a void that ordinary people had no chance of ever crossing.
I’m not a deity and don’t want to be. I just want to help those brothers and sisters who struggle in the darkness of this world that I now see clearly in. Not selling anything. Free for the taking.
Question 1: Given what you know about me through these posts do you think I am a brother who is struggling in the darkness of this world that you see clearly in? I am not suggesting that I have the answers to anything but don’t you think you are being a least somewhat presumptuous to suggest that you are a step up on the rest of us, that you are a testament a living proof a guide for others because you have been there and know the way. And the rest of us are just too spiritually immature to get it?
Question 2: What is the single most important thing I can do to assist the process of maturing spiritually. What is that mechanism that is a natural part of my evolution but still requires ability that comes from ripening.
I will admit up front that I am not likely to accept what you have to say, but I do find you a fascinating character. I am amazed at how strong a faith you have in your own beliefs You would put most people who claim a strong religious faith to shame.
And I am happy for you. You seem completely content probably more content than I am and I am pretty content in whatever ignorance you think I wallow in.
But right now you are not being any more convincing or specific than any other religious evangelist who has tried to alter my way of thinking. (And yes, that may be all my fault.)
Then riddle me this Batman. How fast can you duck, because if you show up in Rupert, someone is gonna through a liquor bottle at you. It won’t be me because I am a smiling old fuck like the guy in my picture, but I would be tempted to piss on your leg.
Really? Violence and public urination?
These threads on religion/faith sometimes have a way of going off the rails. Let us please try to remain civil.
Thank you.
Question 1, This is a world of children. You may have great minds and well aged bodies, but spirituality is the last thing to mature in a human. The mind is in the driver’s seat rather than the heart. You tend to concentrate your efforts for worldly gain rather than trancending the world. So it is not an insult to call you children. It’s not meant to be condecending. I’m like an older brother who has gone off into the world and done things and then returns home to tell his younger siblings of his adventures. More often than not, they’re going to think I’m pulling their leg. Their own realization will come when they too go off into the world and realize what I’ve said is quite true. But today is not that day.
Question 2, Compassion. The centerpiece of the Christ message. To be so empathic, you literally feel everything around you. For me, EVERYTHING is alive. Not just the things that you think are alive, but even rocks, the air and the stars. Matter is a form of crystallized consciousness. Most people identify with the forms it creates. I identify with it’s essence.
I suppose you could say God is the clay from which creation is molded.
Back to compassion. The more you learn how to see yourself in all things, the more you will see. If all you have to work with is 5 senses, it’s like you’re crawling around on the floor in a dark gymnasium with 5 tiny candles to light your way. You’re not going to see much beyond yourself. But compassion is like turning up the house lights and seeing everything at the same time.
People who undergo this transformation know it’s a polarity thing. Most folks absorb the world around them. God realized people radiate outward into it.
[quote=“DHCollins”]Good Morning class.
Question 1, This is a world of children. You may have great minds and well aged bodies, but spirituality is the last thing to mature in a human. The mind is in the driver’s seat rather than the heart. You tend to concentrate your efforts for worldly gain rather than trancending the world. So it is not an insult to call you children. It’s not meant to be condecending. I’m like an older brother who has gone off into the world and done things and then returns home to tell his younger siblings of his adventures.
[/quote]
Whew for a minute there I did think you were being condescending and insulting.
Now I realize that I am just not as compassionate and spiritually mature as you are and likely never to be so. And I am actually OK with that. We can both live with whatever delusions each of us thinks the other is living.
And if you do come to Rupert, I won’t throw a liquor bottle or piss on your leg. Unless you’re a Canucks or Yankees fan. Then all bets are off.
Actually you will. But it’s something you have to grow into. Every single person goes down this road sooner or later. We all have an instinct to return to our point of origin and you can only fight against it so long. There comes a time when your day at the fair becomes long and you just want to go home.
Not much of a sports fan I’m afraid. I don’t have a competitive nature. But I do appreciate the skill involved.
[quote=“DHCollins”]Actually you will. But it’s something you have to grow into. Every single person goes down this road sooner or later. We all have an instinct to return to our point of origin and you can only fight against it so long. There comes a time when your day at the fair becomes long and you just want to go home.
Not much of a sports fan I’m afraid. I don’t have a competitive nature. But I do appreciate the skill involved.
x[/quote]
I case you didn’t get it, I’ve been down that metaphorical road and have come to my own conclusion which is not far from yours philosophically. However I simply don’t buy all the magical bullshit. Enjoy walking about in yours.
[quote=I’m like an older brother who has gone off into the world and done things and then returns home to tell his younger siblings of his adventures.]
No, you’re more like every other condescending pain-in-the-ass who thinks everyone else is out of step and your way is the only way.[/quote]
