Drugs and stuff

Completely different topic altogether and in that case its the mothers fault the child is screwed up and it’s also the mothers fault that she chose whatever drug she chose. She should be punished for it. It’s not a medical issue, it’s a stupid bitch that should have kept her legs closed issue.

Drug use amongst teens/adults is not  a case of drug use being pushed its a case of them choosing to do drugs. Its their fault 100%. 

I’m sure theres some situations where they may have been force fed drugs but in spite of what the media says 1 time doesn’t make you hooked. They choose to go back, they choose to become an addict and its about fucking time they take responsibility. 

Again I’ll say it for those who didn’t here. Personal responsibility (and accountability) have some.

Points well-taken.  I think the concept of choice and free will becomes blurred when you’re talking about a person who has an addictive personality.  Did they choose to go and get high or were they compelled by the addiction taking hold thereby making free will a moot point? 
For the average drug and alcohol user free will is in play.  Some users have extreme difficulty in engaging in moderation.

I disagree  :wink: Free will is still there, they still have the choice. It might not be as easy to make that choice anymore but you still have the ability.

It’s about weighing whats important to you and having something to live for. If you dont why would you care if you kill yourself.

The unfortunate thing that most addicts will never realize is that even if at that point in their life they feel they have nothing to live for its not over yet and they can change that.

It’s sad the state some people are in but it’s still their fault for getting their :wink:

Your life, your responsibility.  I’ve had a few things happen to me over the past 2/3 years that made me realize life is short and I cant go waiting around for other people to make it worthwhile. Thats my job.

Edit: on a related note my roommate drank all my beer without asking and is now passed out on her bed.    … its 5pm… bitch :frowning:

Okay:-)  Not to be a know-it-all blowhard…but…I respectfully disagree with you, jesus.  I do have some training in this area (BA in Psychology with an emphasis in abnormal psychology).  The American Psychiatric Association classifies drug abuse, dependence as a demonstrated psychiatric disorder as listed in the DSM 1V (Diagnostic Statistical Manual).  So I again state that some people have difficulty engaging in rational choices.  Not all people can be recreational drug users.  Some people get quickly trapped by addiction.


Not going to disagree that some people quickly get trapped by addiction but one time isn’t enough for a full blown substance addiction (at least not a physical one) and even if in some rare cases it was they still likely made that choice on their own.

If I were to be allergic to peanuts it’d be my responsibility to stay away just as if I had an addictive personality it would be my responsibility to not put myself in a position where I’d be at risk.

Having a disease/disorder does not negate personal responsibility :smile:

We all know where using drugs might lead.  If you try them  enough to get hooked its your fault not the person who you asked to sell it to you.

Well-said.  But, if the person who has a genetic predisposition to addiction (or a peanut allergy) is unaware of that condition how does free will come into the equation?  Some people are compelled to abuse drugs/alcohol.  I will concede that it is the responsibility of a person to abstain from using drugs/alcohol if they know that their family has a tendency towards addiction.

Peanut allergy well that just sucks for them they find out from a trip to the hospital. They get no warning.  Drug/Alcohol use there is plenty of warning. I remember being in elementary school learning about how drugs were bad and addictive (it really would help if half the shit wasnt lies and propaganda though).

For anyone to experiment with drugs (of any kind Tylenol included) without educating themselves first is completely and totally retarded.

I dont even take doctor prescribed medication until I know exactly what it is and what the potential risks are. 

Yes.  There are warnings about the potential addictive effects of drugs/alcohol.  But, I would like to get back to genetic markers and addiction.  Some people can engage in social drinking, others can not.  Two individuals can have the same knowledge about the risk factors associated with alcohol/drug use.  One individual will be able to drink responsibly, the other person becomes addicted due to an inherited trait.  Addiction is a real threat for some people.

Education about drug, alcohol effects is useful, but, some people will become addicted and have a very difficult time.  Intelligence and addiction are not really correlated.  That is, a very intelligent person can be an addict and be fully aware of what is happening to them.  The addiction is so strong that they keep using even though their life spirals out of control.  Free will is occasionally trumped by bad genetics.

But that is just putting the user as the victim again. There are programs, and rehab and other resources for addicts of all kind. It’s whether or not they choose (again with the choice thing) to take the opportunity.

Yes.  They have the opportunity to enter rehabilitation programs.  But, my premise is that some people are genetically predisposed to become addicts.  So, yes, in that sense they are victims who have extreme difficulty making sane lifestyle choices with drugs, alcohol.  They may be unable to quit using drugs/alcohol without intervention.  Biology can interfere with free will.
Your argument is valid if you think that genetics does not play a role in addiction.

I’m not arguing that some people have a tendency towards addiction some most certainly do.  Though I have yet to meet a person who was not conscious of their addiction or their inability to control their abuse.

Smokers know they’re hooked, alcoholics know they have a problem etc. They choose to either do nothing about it or to put themselves in situations where they can drink, smoke, smoke crack etc.

Personally I know what my weaknesses are and know I am unable to control them when put in a situation where the substances are available.

I make the conscious choice every day to not be in those situations. It is my responsibility to do so as I am the one in charge of my life and nobody else.   For me to blame my genetics and not put the onus on myself to ensure I do not put myself in a situation to abuse drugs/alcohol would be irresponsible on my part which leads me to my point that it is no matter how you dance around it the users fault.

We will agree to disagree on this one, jesus and bubbasteve735:-)  An interesting debate.  Thank you! :smiley:

Is that short for I lose? :wink:  Kidding.

Nope…just a recognition that we’ve hit an impasse in our debate. :smiley:  Big fun though. :sunglasses:

My observation on this topic comes from first hand knowledge of substance abuse and addiction both of which I go threw on a daily basis.

Jesus and Bubasteve are somewhat correct on saying that a person has a choice, as someone who has an addictive personality I suffer with the choices I make, my addiction tells me “I need it, I must have it, you will be unhappy with out it” common sense kicks in and says " you really don’t need it do you?, you will be fine" but those those impulses are very strong and do win at times.

when I’m reading Jesus debate about this it reminded me of Tom cruise and mental health and how Tom is telling people who are depressed its in their head and they dont need pills to feel better they only need to read Scientology.

our brains are wonderous things; but some people are wired wrong, the chemicals they need are not present.

alcohol abuse runs high in my family and I made a choice in my 30’s not to abuse it like my mom ( who passed away a few years ago from too many years of drinking) and my father 22 years ago from a massive heart attack. his addiction alcohol and tobacco.

my addiction was comic books, lame yes but still an expensive habit.
in closing just remember that regardless of what we think no one will care in 100 years…

so Jesus do you still smoke pot sounds like you gave it up…if so good for you, and if not well its your body, your temple do as you please…

The mind is a VERY powerful thing. If you really want something, and I mean TRULY want it and are willing to do anything to get it, you will have it. It’s the power of intention. But you have to want it to have it. Completely and wholeheartedly.

A person can get over ANYTHING they put their mind to. And they can have anything as well.

Woah, you should write a book!

Call it “The Secret” or something like that.

The smartest thing said so far.
I whole heartedly agree with you.

Throughout my life, I’ve seen addiction around my environment.
With all the information available to us through books, internet - just seeing
how horribly it affects your body/mind and the people around you; should
be enough not to poison yourself.

It’s ridiculous to go on and blame genetics/biology, the only finger should be pointed
at the users themselves. As “most intelligent and superior - top of the food chain” humans are, we should be way smarter than that. Common sense is the thing most lacking in today’s world, and should scare the hell out of any intelligent person.

Pretty song tells it as simple as it gets…