Cancelled Recess?

In the Okanagan they decided to send the kids HOME 15 minutes earlier instead:

kelownacapnews.com/news/128851353.html

Last time this kind of thing happened, I was called in to cover recess, as I wasn’t part of the union. All the principals and other district staff covered recess and the other supervision duties. Eventually the district just hired people to cover the supervision.

What did the Prince Rupert district do last time this happened?

As for being ‘not impartial’ – no problem. I’ve been both part of the union and management in BC, having been both a teacher and principal. How about the Supreme Court, are they impartial enough for you, Gracie’s Mom? courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/ … 21cor1.htm

There’s no chance that the government is going to back down, no matter what the courts say. I’m sure even their own lawyers told them that the legislation (getting rid of class size limits, support for special needs students, etc,. in contracts) was illegal. Three times the courts have said that the actions were illegal, and the government persists. How much is this going to cost the taxpayers? Do they even care? So far it’s cost 10 years of court costs, and a fine.

Why would they do this when they know that their actions are unconstitutional? Guess who was education minister when the legislation was passed?

Clark.

MIG asked: ‘What did the Prince Rupert district do last time this happened?’

I believe that they followed the LRB ruling and provided supervision before school, at recess, and after school…as was expected then, and is expected by the LRB in the upcoming job action.

Unlike the situation you refer to, I do believe the District will not need to hire others to provide supervision because teachers are required to fill in…if and when all District administration and management resources are used to cover supervision.

However, currently the questions remain…why did the District choose to cancel recess and re-structure start times?

Bye the bye hitest…bet that was just a lucky guess :smile:

The BCTF is on the wrong side of the argument…you will be hard pressed to find a BC voter who will agree with the demands of the BCTF at this point in time.

Simply put, teachers in this province have it pretty damn good if you ask me. They can top out in the 80,000+ range and get 3 months off (July/August/Winter & Spring Break).

[quote=“bthedog”]The BCTF is on the wrong side of the argument…you will be hard pressed to find a BC voter who will agree with the demands of the BCTF at this point in time.

Simply put, teachers in this province have it pretty damn good if you ask me. They can top out in the 80,000+ range and get 3 months off (July/August/Winter & Spring Break).[/quote]

Watch again this highly popular video by Sir Ken Robinson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U)

Did you watch it in its entirety? No? Perhaps just a few moments to reacquaint. The opening two points are the most salient - economic and cultural.

Now, consider the following. Much has been done to move education towards the learning needs of and for the 21st century. Even though a good deal has been done, there is yet a long way to go. Evidently it is a never-ending story. Where is this going, you ask?

Consider the possibility that Sir Ken Robinson is speaking about all elements of the educational system being out of step with the date.

How can a 19th century core education system effectively deliver on 21st century needs? Well, Sir Ken says that it cannot. Fine. Yet here we are, attempting to advance education while being tethered to the trusty old Teacher’s Union. The core BCTF tenants we see in action were created shortly after the AFT (American Federation of Teachers) in and around 1917. And there it sits. An unmovable rock. A real 19th century millstone about our necks.

Jim Iker, much like Pauline Marois, is unable to let the notion of ‘pure laine’ go. Grey Canadians have had their shot and the new Canadians seem unwilling to settle the old grudges. The economic forces and cultural ‘genes’ of the 19th century have evolved and it might be time for the BCTF make that paradigm shift out of the 19th century.

Will the BCTF (like the PQ) recognize their best before date before it’s too late?

[quote=“bthedog”]The BCTF is on the wrong side of the argument…you will be hard pressed to find a BC voter who will agree with the demands of the BCTF at this point in time.

Simply put, teachers in this province have it pretty damn good if you ask me. They can top out in the 80,000+ range and get 3 months off (July/August/Winter & Spring Break).[/quote]

So basically it’s ok to break the law, if the victims make 80,000 a year? Does that apply to all laws?

How much do you make a year? Is it ok if I take away some of your rights if you make enough money?

Who cares what the courts say, right?

In today’s news, Canada has just surpassed the United States as the wealthiest Middle Class in the world.

The median income for a Canadian Middle Class family is just under $70,000. Middle Class range is from anywhere from $60,000 to $85,000 placing single teachers near the very top of the Class. To make it to the Upper Class, a family income would need to pass the $125,000 mark or someone in the family would need to become part of the Central Office. A teaching couple or a teacher and another family member earning low Middle Class wages would take this family over the top. If benefits were included in this calculation, a single teacher with decent seniority has joined the Upper Class in Canada.

Might be a reason why is the public is not all that interested in meeting BCTF demands.

[quote=“MiG”]

So basically it’s ok to break the law, if the victims make 80,000 a year? [/quote]

What law was broken?

I agree with much of PinchLoaf’s post.

As a taxpayer I would be more than willing to give the teachers a pay raise if we had accountability and could get rid of those who don’t measure up. But therein lies the problem; the union would never agree to that. Teachers will always be judged to the lowest common denominator, and if I was a good teacher I would be pissed off that the union would choose to protect the deadbeats. I get that it is very hard to measure performance when there are so many variables, but it isn’t impossible.

The old style model of union vs. management is not only outdated, but in the case of education it is innapropriate. You have two sides using kids as a rope in a tug of war and both sides claiming their position is for the best interest of the students. I don’t believe in strikes or lockouts because they always involve harm to an innocent third party. And in this day and age of trying to eradicate bullying, I find it distasteful to use such a tactic.

[quote=“MiG”]

[quote=“bthedog”]The BCTF is on the wrong side of the argument…you will be hard pressed to find a BC voter who will agree with the demands of the BCTF at this point in time.

Simply put, teachers in this province have it pretty damn good if you ask me. They can top out in the 80,000+ range and get 3 months off (July/August/Winter & Spring Break).[/quote]

So basically it’s ok to break the law, if the victims make 80,000 a year? Does that apply to all laws?

How much do you make a year? Is it ok if I take away some of your rights if you make enough money?

Who cares what the courts say, right?[/quote]

If I was making 80,000+ for 9 full months of work (on tax payer money) I wouldn’t be bitching in the first place and I certainly wouldn’t be biting the hand that feeds me… I would consider myself privileged and content to be making that type of money. There is a reason why the BCTF comes off as the most greedy of all public unions in this province…they have become wildly out of touch.

You guys bitching about wages are completely missing the boat. 80k is not a lot of money, trades people even apprentices who actually work a full year are making 80-150k/yr. In Prince Rupert 80k seems like a lot of money but if you take that same salary and move to vancouver I think you will find things change quite a bit.

Personally I’d like to see wages pegged at inflation and maybe a slight cost of living allowance or something of the sort. I think class size and composition are much larger issues for both teachers and students. Its hard for teachers to teach and students to learn when there are large classes or more special needs kids. I think you may find the more reasonable teachers would be willing to move on the remuneration a bit if their jobs were being made easier.

It might however be time for a better pay structure where teachers are paid less overall but more expensive centers like vancouver are paid a cost of living incentive.

If BC wanted to pay teachers $80k to babysit 40-50 students, spend countless hours after work marking assignments, exams, etc, and spend more hours after work preparing for next day’s lesson, I would seriously look out-of-province for work. Maybe even a career change…

I remember being in the Math 12 course with 49 others in the classroom. I’m amazed the teacher didn’t have a mental break down during the whole semester.

She was a good teacher.

[quote=“jesus”]You guys bitching about wages are completely missing the boat. 80k is not a lot of money, trades people even apprentices who actually work a full year are making 80-150k/yr. In Prince Rupert 80k seems like a lot of money but if you take that same salary and move to vancouver I think you will find things change quite a bit.

Personally I’d like to see wages pegged at inflation and maybe a slight cost of living allowance or something of the sort. I think class size and composition are much larger issues for both teachers and students. Its hard for teachers to teach and students to learn when there are large classes or more special needs kids. I think you may find the more reasonable teachers would be willing to move on the remuneration a bit if their jobs were being made easier.

It might however be time for a better pay structure where teachers are paid less overall but more expensive centers like vancouver are paid a cost of living incentive.[/quote]

I am sure there are thousands of people living on Vancouver who would gladly take 80k a year and not have one damn thing to bitch about.

[quote=“bthedog”]

I am sure there are thousands of people living on Vancouver who would gladly take 80k a year and not have one damn thing to bitch about.[/quote]

Sure… and they can do it too all they need to do is go to school or take some training. You know, earn it… but in vancouver 80k is more like 40k up here.

BC teachers are some of the lowest paid teachers in all of Canada. Alberta teachers make $20,000 more per year than BC teachers. Just a statement of fact to counter your anti-union rhetoric. We get it, you hate unions.

You also didn’t answer the question.

What’s the salary cut off for you, bthedog, before the Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn’t apply to you?

We know that you think the Charter shouldn’t apply to people who make $80,000 a year. What’s the lowest you’ll go for that? $50,000? If you’re making $50,000 a year, are you still allowed to have Charter rights?

[quote=“hitest”]

BC teachers are some of the lowest paid teachers in all of Canada. Alberta teachers make $20,000 more per year than BC teachers. Just a statement of fact to counter your anti-union rhetoric. We get it, you hate unions.[/quote]

So do you think teachers should be paid the same right across the country? Just because Alberta teachers make $20,000 more, doesn’t necessarily mean BC teachers should get the same. Alberta is the richest province in Canada, of course their teachers are going to be paid more when there is more money to go around, no way in hell should BC teachers be paid the same, we are simply not as rich as Alberta is. It is a pretty simple explanation.

Furthermore, our student population is declining year after year in BC, while Alberta’s has been rising steadily over the last 5 years, even hitting a 10 year high (and thats with a total BC population being close to 1 million more than Alberta in total)…how can any BC government justifiably or blindly pay teachers the same pay as those in Alberta…simply put, they can’t and they shouldn’t.

And yes, for the most part, I do not like unions…I see the damage they do everyday and the greed that they thrive on, they are an out-dated institution and the BCTF is the textbook example of that.

[quote=“MiG”]You also didn’t answer the question.

What’s the salary cut off for you, bthedog, before the Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn’t apply to you?

We know that you think the Charter shouldn’t apply to people who make $80,000 a year. What’s the lowest you’ll go for that? $50,000? If you’re making $50,000 a year, are you still allowed to have Charter rights?[/quote]

I do support the charter and think it should apply equally to everyone (regardless of how much you make), but not when it is being used to screw over tax payers. Class size average in this province ranges from 23 (high school) to 25 (elementary) students per class…23 and 25…how can any teacher truly bitch about that number. I know there are some classrooms around the province that have over that average (BCTF screams bloody murder about those), but that works on both sides of the spectrum, there are some districts with a class average of 10 students (you don’t hear jack shit about those classrooms from the BCTF).

When I went to school the numbers were well into the low to mid-30 range and that was with basically no child care workers.

Class composition is the only complaint from the BCTF that I agree with. No classroom should have over 4 special needs students in it without a support worker for each of them…that is definitely something that the government should be working to solve and remedy.

But I do not agree with any increase in salary or benefits outside of a small cost of living/inflation increase. They certainly shouldn’t be getting anything even remotely close to 34 or 24 percent or 2 week paid bereavement leaves for the death of a friend or other wildly ridiculous demands. How is any taxpayer supposed to respect or support a public union that is making or has made such demands like this?

And why the secrecy over their wage demands this go around? Why is the BCTF not making this public? The obvious answer is because they KNOW it is ridiculously outrageous and would only further damage their reputation with BC taxpayers…we already know their demands are significantly above the demands of other public sector unions (as confirmed by the Province). The secrecy over what they want for a salary increase only makes this union look even more shady and is further damaging the public’s trust in them.

There is no doubt the current issue is a mess. We have: a strong Union arguing for more money and better working conditions: a Provincial Government which does not believe that the taxpayers wish to pay more; and, a Supreme Court that says that the Provincial Government is no longer playing by the rules.

I think that our existing public education system will continue to stumble and lurch along for another 20 -30 years. Right now, I see the existing mess as the beginning of the death throes. The system is currently supported by two institutions - the Provincial Government and the Union. It is a bad analogy - but like cops and robbers they need each other in order to be legitimate.

I think we also need to decide what an education is for. We now live in a world where most of the goods and services needed to sustain life are produced in large scale systems that need very little human involvement. By way of example, witness the rise of robotics in manufacturing, the change in farming to agri-business, and the huge capital investments found in primary industry that minimize the need for labor The most significant role most of us have in the economy is that of consumer. Most of us work in jobs that are actually superfluous. I believe that in the future, the importance of our social lives and spiritual lives will become far more important to us than our role in the economy as a producer.

I suspect that most parents would be happy to enroll their children into a different education system which would provide their children with the skill sets needed to be successful: socially, economically, and, spiritually. The most difficult issue for a new system will be to incorporate a period each day during which the parents can be assured that someone is keeping an eye on their kids ( I don’t think we should ever underestimate the importance of the child-minding or baby-sitting aspect of the current system).