Bigthumb and MiG talk about soccer

You mean it would get one person excited.  A pretty big fish too.  And if you happen to speak French (even if you have no relatives in France whatsoever!), that fish keeps trying to spit the hook back at you because, obviously, you know nothing about soccer since you clearly think it’s played with the hands :unamused:  (I’m sure there’s a fallacy or something here but I don’t really care!)

For various reasons (like a freaking nice day at the beach!), I only started to watch at the 84th minute and I quite enjoyed the overtime but I was ready to turn off the TV if they would have gone to the shootout.  Thankfully, Inestia settled that with a great goal.  Even if they are “part of the game”, the biggest championship in the world shouldn’t be decided by penalty kick.

Also JJR, I totally agree with you about the amount of questionable calls done during the world cup.  The best refs in the world keep making human mistakes.  But it’s  “part of the game”  :unamused:

I must admit that as a younger person, I didn’t watch much soccer and often thought it was boring.  Then came Maradona;  all of a sudden, this sport became more and more interesting to watch and I did watch it on and off until a few years ago.  But lately, I am starting to realize that if I watch the last few minutes of a game and the highlights, I’m satisfied.  It’s beautiful to watch the spaniards control of the ball for sure, but doing that for 90 minutes without finishing annoys this viewer a lot. 

Mais, puisque je parle français, il est clair que je ne m’y connais pas en soccer! Par conséquent, je n’ai pas le droit d’avoir une opinion sur ce sujet.

[quote=“BigThumb”]
Then came Maradona;  all of a sudden, this sport became more and more interesting to watch[/quote]

Yes because we all know what Maradona is known for!

Come on BigThumb, you keep getting trolled so well, even when you know the hook is right in front of you.  In fact you had to bring it up in a thread that didn’t even mention your love of handballs!  If you’d stop reacting, then I’d stop making French jokes.  But as long as you keep bringing it up…

As for low-scoring games, I think people who don’t like them just don’t understand that defence is part of the game.  And it’s the hardest part.

Sure would have been nice to have Spain score 8 goals on the Netherlands, but that’s just misunderstanding how hard it is to score on a team at this level.  Would it be more entertaining?  Sure, but how would it be fair?  Portugal scoring 7 goals on North Korea wasn’t entertaining, it was embarrassing for North Korea.

In short, soccer is not hockey.  I’m generalizing here, because I don’t know about specific people, but I think some Canadians grew up watching hockey, and think of soccer as hockey on grass.  Or basketball on grass if you’re French.  It’s not.

It would be like whining that Cricket should be more like baseball or something.

So you don’t like soccer, or want it to be different.  You don’t understand why others like it, or why someone would like it more than soccer.  BigThumb, remember your reaction when I said I tuned into the Canada-USA game at the last minute, because there was a much more exciting soccer game going on?  haha! 

I totally get that others don’t like it, don’t understand it, want it to be different, whatever.  No big deal.  But why even comment about something if that’s going to be your only comment?

Sort of like me poking my head into the hockey threads and saying “why are there commercial breaks in hockey?  I don’t get it!  Why are they allowed to make substitutions right in the middle of the game without even needing the ref’s permission?  What?  Unlimited substitutions?”  Etc etc.  It would be the same as saying “I don’t get it.”

You know what I don’t get?  Cricket.  But I’m ok with the fact that others think Cricket is life and death.  I don’t make dumb comments about the sport because I don’t like it.

I readily admit that I don’t get soccer and I will call it that to separate it from the misnamed American football.

Defense is a big part of all the team sports.  In baseball, the great catch is more exciting than any hit.  In football, the big tackle or sack is just as exciting as the touchdown run.  In hockey, goalie saves are the biggest part of a highlight reel.  Even basketball has its defensive moments. 

But basketball is, in many ways, the opposite of soccer.  While soccer has only a few moments when scoring is possible, basketball has everybody scoring all the time.  Each team scores about 50 times a game.  (What defense?)  Basketball is the game I would turn on for the last two minutes, not soccer.

For me, a balance between offense and defense is needed.  But like I said, I don’t get the defensive side of soccer.  One soccer fan once told me you have to watch more than the ball to appreciate what is going on.  The same can probably be said of all the sports. 

Nowadays, TV limits our view of the whole playing field and if we haven’t grown up with the sport then our understanding of the game and appreciation for all aspects of the game gets lost.     

Long one coming so others might want to skip this :smiley:

 
But you left me no way out.  In almost every discussion, you bring the French handball in the discussion.  Even when I replied without answering to this, you still keep bringing this up.  Might as well play your ad hominem game! 

The funny thing is, you seem to like soccer players who use their hands:

[quote=“MiG”]
Yup. Absolutely the right thing to do. Took a red card for the team.

Traded a red card for a slight chance that the penalty could be saved. Didn’t matter, as the Ghanian hit the crossbar. [/quote]

Wasn’t this your reply when Eso mentioned the intentional hand ball from the Uruguay player?  In my mind this was a very unsportsmanlike thing to do.  Way more than Henry’s handball.  But I guess, you are more of an expert so you get to decide this kind of thing.  “Part of the game”

 

[quote=“MiG”]
As for low-scoring games, I think people who don’t like them just don’t understand that defence is part of the game.  And it’s the hardest part.[/quote]

So in other words, only people who “understand” should make comments.  That’s what I was alluding to in my previous post.

[quote=“MiG”]
Sure would have been nice to have Spain score 8 goals on the Netherlands, but that’s just misunderstanding how hard it is to score on a team at this level.  Would it be more entertaining?  Sure, but how would it be fair?  Portugal scoring 7 goals on North Korea wasn’t entertaining, it was embarrassing for North Korea.[/quote]

How about a 4-3 score?  That would have surely been more entertaining than watching paint dry, sorry, watching constant defensive play.  I am wondering if deep down, you are not an Italian fan since they play defensive unless their backs are against the wall.  Wait, Portugal played like that against Brazil.  That was a beautiful defensive loss. 

[quote=“MiG”]
In short, soccer is not hockey.[/quote]

You got that right!  In hockey, players who fake injuries are frowned upon.  Enough said.  If you fall, get up unless you are really hurt.  But I guess faking falls is “part of the game”!

[quote=“MiG”]
I totally get that others don’t like it, don’t understand it, want it to be different, whatever.  No big deal.  But why even comment about something if that’s going to be your only comment? [/quote]

Exactly what I said in my previous post, since I don’t know enough, I shouldn’t say anything.  (Even thought I played for at least 12 years and coached for the same amount of time.)

Maybe you should watch other sports than soccer.

Nice,  so saying that they should use technology for close calls like offside on a goal is a dumb comment.  Saying that Spain’s game is beautiful but gets a little tedious when it’s done for 90 minutes without scoring is a dumb comment.  Saying that penalty shots are not the way I would like to see the biggest championship game decided is a dumb comment. 

[quote=“BigThumb”]
In almost every discussion, you bring the French handball in the discussion.  Even when I replied without answering to this, you still keep bringing this up. [/quote]

Dude, you brought it up here.  In a thread with no mention of the French.

[quote]The funny thing is, you seem to like soccer players who use their hands:
Wasn’t this your reply when Eso mentioned the intentional hand ball from the Uruguay player?  In my mind this was a very unsportsmanlike thing to do. [/quote]

He got an instant Red Card and was sent off.  Surely you understand the concept of taking one for the team?  He gets sent off, gets match bans for stopping a goal that would have eliminated his team.  Henri didn’t.

And yes, if you don’t see the difference, then you are right:

Right, you think that handling a ball and getting a red card is the same as handling the ball so you can cheat your way to the world cup.  You really do NOT understand the game.

So soccer should be about entertaining you, not about winning? Which side do you suggest should have had to let their guard down first so that the game could be entertaining for you?

Again, I get it.  You don’t like soccer.  You pretty much say that over and over again.  Maybe you should watch MORE soccer.  I never comment on hockey, because honestly, I probably watch 5 or 6 games a year.  

Well, I might as well keep making dumb comments about French handballs,  Henry’s reaction was an automatic reaction that, if you watch soccer, you will see from time to time.  Your favorite player, C. Ronaldo was sent off for a hand ball before and I bet it wasn’t the first time he touched the ball with his hands.  He just didn’t get caught the other times.  The real problem in that situation was the officiating.  A quick look at a video replay would have annulled that goal against Ireland.  But you are such a FIFA purist that this shouldn’t happen. 

Just a quick question, if you are such a purist, why do you call it soccer? 

Who said I was a purist?  Why do you think Ronaldo is my favourite player? 

If you weren’t French, I’d say you’re pulling out a few strawmen.

You like Diego Maradona, but you don’t like Spanish or Italian soccer.  Guess which style he played?  Did you ever actually watch him play professional soccer?  If so, which style did he use?

You see, every time you talk about soccer, you’re basically demonstrating your ignorance of the sport.  

Let me give you an example.  If I were to talk about hockey, a subject about which I know absolutely nothing, in the same way you talk about soccer, this is what it would sound like:

  • Why do they always fight in hockey?  Why is it ok to beat up a player in hockey and spend a few of minutes in a box as a punishment?  Is that how games are decided?  By how well a player fights?

  • Why do they always crash into each other in hockey (I’m not sure what the term is…)?  Why do they do it even when the other player doesn’t have the puck?  Is the game decided by how hard you crash into each other?  Or how hard you can hit those boards and make a loud sound?  Is that how a game is played?

  • I’m sure that a live game is better than on TV, right?  Well, I watched my favourite team (the Edmonton Oilers) play a game once – Gretzky wasn’t there, I don’t know why.  Anyway, at several times during the game, the players just stopped playing and skated over to their team dugouts (what are they called in hockey) and just hung around for 3 or 4 minutes, doing nothing.  Then they started playing again.  What was that about?  Is that a scheduled break so they can catch their breath?

  • Hockey sure must be a tiring game, the players have to keep getting substituted because they are tired!  Even when the puck is still flying around, they skate over and are substituted right away

I’m sure I could go on with observations like that – in fact, it would be a funny exercise to do so.  But the truth is that I really don’t know much about hockey, and saying stuff like that really is just me saying “I don’t know much about hockey” over and over again.

So when you make a post saying Spanish soccer is boring, and Italian soccer is boring, or whatever, and in the same post you say that you liked Diego Maradona, what you’re really saying is “I don’t know much about soccer.”

And calling me a purist?  Did you read what I wrote about the officiating changes in the Europa League?  What are your thoughts on that?  

I wasn’t talking about the leagues!  I was talking about the national teams from Italy and Portugal (not Spain! Aren’t they different country?)  And Maradona was probably a breath of fresh air when he played in the Italian league.  
You don’t like Maradona.  You thought that Argentina would bomb because of him.  Well they did better than you expected.  

Well if that is what I sound like about soccer to your eyes, you should stop arguing with me because you are obviously not going to get anywhere with my stupidity.  Duh, so I guess I can’t comment on your take about the Europa League thingie!

Edit: Could another mod please put this back in the wasteland.  People already know I’m stupid and don’t know about soccer so why pound it into them. :confused:

[quote=“BigThumb”]
I wasn’t talking about the leagues!  I was talking about the national teams from Italy and Portugal (not Spain! Aren’t they different country?)  And Maradona was probably a breath of fresh air when he played in the Italian league.  [/quote]

You said watching defensive play was like watching paint dry.  Or something like that.

And you’ve just scored another own goal by differentiating between Maradona as a national team player and as a professional player.  He scored way more goals per game as a pro player than he did for Argentina.  

When he played in Spain (playing that paint drying passing game he was so good at) and in Italy (playing that boring defensive game you don’t like) he averaged about 0.4 goals per game (how boring!)

When he played for Argentina he averaged about 0.3 goals per game.

Like I said, everytime you post, you’re confirming you don’t really know much about this stuff.  The game that Spain was playing was basically Barcelona’s league style.  Guess who used to play for Barcelona?

Seriously, using the hockey example, it would be like me saying that I thought Gretzky was a great goalkeeper.

They bombed as soon as they met a team that knew how to defend (ie: every South American and European team) and counterattack.

Why is it wasteland material?  Did you move it there?  Too bad there wasn’t a video replay of you moving a thread where you obviously score an own goal (re: Maradona) to the wasteland :smile:

Editing, 'cause this was your awesome signature: