Any one but Harper

Me thinks he eats babies too  :wink:

I am curious , can anybody find a reason to vote for this guy?? Anything??

OK I’ll bite.

On Tuesday Canadian voters will choose a prime minister. The reality is it will either be Harper, or Dion. Anyone else is an ‘also ran’. So the choice is this guy,

Many are voting against Harper because they don’t want to see him get a majority, which would allow him to totally implement his agenda, both secret and otherwise. Generally, Harper doesn’t have much support among the thinking class. Anybody but Harper means, I think, what it says. I’d rather have PeeWee Herman or Don Cherry as Prime Minister.

OK I’ll bite.

On Tuesday Canadian voters will choose a prime minister. The reality is it will either be Harper, or Dion. Anyone else is an ‘also ran’. So the choice is this guy,

If BC votes NDP and the rest of the country votes in a minority Conservative or Liberal government we could have the sway vote in the house. So believe it or not Layton is a real choice these days. Especially with his stance on Afghanistan.

There are emerging markets that were not around during the previous recessions. China is desperate for our commodities and has already started buying up assets to assist them in this endeavour. ( the local pulp mill for one ) If we continue to sell to only one market then perhaps we deserve what we get. Although you must also think that no matter how bad it gets in the States they are still going to need our raw materials, even if it is only for necessities.

I noticed you didn’t back this up with any proof. Who says the carbon tax is bad for northerners? The provincial NDP perhaps? surely you don’t mean those also rans do you? (TIC)How is it you feel that the carbon tax negatively affects northerners? I see the carbon tax as something that will finally start to make polluters pay the true cost of their wastefulness. Economic times will rise and fall, but there is only one environment. If the economy tanks I can catch a fish or till the soil to feed myself. If the environment tanks, well, I am not sure if pennies are digestible.

And these plants are? In my opinion, business gets along just fine with a Liberal government. The fact that they were the ones that started to pay down our debt is the main reason we are not in the same pickle as the rest of the G8. And it will be this reason that you will see companies move to Canada not away from it. I think George W Bush has driven more jobs out of the United States because of polices similar to those of Harper. If they are forward thinkers why would they jump out of the frying pan and into the fire like that?

So we have to bail out those that were living outside of their means? Excuse me but are they not the reason we are in this predicament? I also don’t recall Harper saying he was going to do anything about this either. Maybe it’s just a Darwinian thing but if you use a credit card for a down payment on a house, maybe its god’s way of telling you, you should rent. I’m not sure why you would think this makes Harper a better choice for PM, am I missing something? I also seem to recall that’s its Dion and Layton that say we should take a look at the impending crisis and Harper is the one that was saying " what me worry? "

I don’t particularly like taxes but I understand what they do for our society, it’s been my experience that those who typically whine about too much tax are also those that whine when their government services get curtailed. I also think that as a middle income earner my taxes were going down more with the raising of the personal exemption rate, then I have ever saved on a 2% cut to the GST. I understand how the green shift plan (like BC’s carbon tax) will reduce tax rates in other areas for both individuals and corporations. There has been only one Prime minister in Canadian history that has presided over a decline in worker productivity (-0.6 according to the ccpa) and he is our current one. You can only attain what you strive for. If you try for mediocrity what are your chances of going forward?

I don’t think the port is slow, in fact I don’t think it’s ever been busier. I also think it will get busier in the future. I also believe if Harper has a long run at it and integrates us more with the US we will see less traffic at the port. Why would you ship something to the United States from an ocean port? This ports future lies in Asia, and from what I remember this is not high on Harpers agenda.
The price usually goes up when demand goes up. Is this not one of the things that Adam Smith talked about? I must have missed the part where the Liberals said they were going to make the cost of goods getting to market obscene. Do you mean that those in the transportation industry that refuse to move to alternative energy models will have an extra few cents per litre to pay will make it obscene? If they want to profit take I am sure some one will be along shortly to undercut them. I think Mr. Smith also said something along the lines of never charging more that the market will bear.
If the best argument you can come up with is he doesn’t speak the English language very well, well than I agree. There are defiantly more eloquent speakers out there, but his passion does come through all the miss cues and I would rather have some one with heart leading my country than someone with out one. As well the interview you keep referring to shows me more about how stupid some of the questions from the media are. I took me a while to figure out what he was talking about as well.

If the turkey was good enough for Benjamin Franklin then its good enough for me!

Hope you’re not too full to digest some of that.[/quote]

I voted for Nathan Cullen in the advance polling on October 4th.  I truly hope Mr. Harper does not get a majority tomorrow.  Mr. Harper doesn’t care about the middle class.

I somehow doubt that between the Lib’s backing down on any confidence vote and the Block only voting for anything that benefits Quebec, Layton will have much sway power.

I’m all for exploring Asian markets. When you have 1/3 of the worlds population starting to experience middle class living and looking for the amenities that go with middle class living, that’s on hell of a customer base. More trade with Asian countries would also decrease the impact of US recessions on Canada. I also agree that the US will still buy necessities from Canada but the curtailment of luxury purchases will have an impact on our exports to the US.

With regards to the BC carbon tax, from what I have read in the PG Citizen there has been lots of hurt to go around in the logging industry which uses large amounts of fuel in logging trucks, logging equipment, and transportation of the workers to the forests they work in. How much more can they take? Those commuting to new mines being developed will also be adding that expense to the cost of working. The mines themselves use large amounts of energy. Pollution concerns me, carbon does not. 

Lets not forget the average commute in norther BC is farther than a commute in the lower mainland with less favorable road conditions. Due to lower average winter temperatures, the heating bills in norther BC are also taking a larger hit than Vancouver. That carbon tax is carefully aimed at appeasing the ‘granola/birkentock’ crowd in the lower mainland. BTW how did the removal of the toll on the Coq affect you? Northern BC is BC’s rump, just like the west is Canada’s rump, not enough votes to really matter.

Before you call me a hateful polluter, I was looking at converting a car to electric but could not get the range required by my job. If I change jobs and only have to deal with a regular commute, I will revisit the electric car idea. This weekend I have been working on a Lenz 2 wind turbine and have recently ordered a couple more solar panels to help reduce my grid energy needs. Rest assured the price I am paying to produce alternative energy has a very slow payback, not to mention it is more work than most people can be bothered with.

Concerning businesses moving shop, I distinctly recall reading and seeing on the news a couple of equipment manufacturing plants in Ontario that plan to go south if the Liberals get in  based on increased energy costs and taxation which are both lower in the US. I can’t be bothered to look it up again just for you your Highness. I gather news from many sources.

When people in the US were bitching about $4 gas I worked it out and Calgary was paying something like $5.18 in US$ per US gallon. You cannot deny that must have some impact on industry.

I’m curious where you got the impression I thought those in financial trouble due to living outside their means have to be bailed out. I would agree they should lose their homes. Additional taxes would make the number of foreclosures rise above what has happened and will happen already. Some of those homes are ‘owned’ by hard working, middle class, financially responsible, citizens that will be taxed out of their homes. They don’t have the toys to sell before being evicted. Those with deep pockets will pick up those homes at fire sale prices and rent them to previous owners. So this begs the question, “Who’s looking out for the average Joe?” I would consider home ownership a measure of independence. New taxes will rob some very decent hard working people of that independence. The NDP want’s a nanny state, I prefer choices.

Three letters, NEP! (I see the green shift as the second coming) What happened to productivity then? (Hint: unemployed people tend to be unproductive)

If the port is that busy, why is the economy in Prince Rupert so slow?

OK lets look at this, 3/4 of Canada’s population is English speaking. More often than not international meetings involving Canada are held in English. I’d be inclined to have a leader who is somewhat fluent in English. Harper took the time to learn French to be able to talk to 1/4 of the population, yet Dion can’t take the time to learn English?

How difficult a question is “If you were Prime Minister now, what would you have done about the economy and this crisis, that Mr. Harper has not done?” Sorry I think that’s a pretty simple question, but I guess I don’t belong to the “thinking class” that can not comprehend this question. I have looked at some other you tube Video’s of Dion and noticed that his “rare (unnamed) genetic hearing impairment” was not evident in the other video’s. Perhaps it’s selective not genetic? Perhaps this impairment only kicks in when Dion has no answer? I would prefer a leader that can think on his feet. What you call Dion’s passion, I call panic.

Well, I can’t vote for Harper, despite his excellent English, because of Bill C-61.  It’s a blatant selling of Canadian consumer and fair use rights to US corporations.

Harper’s excellent English doesn’t extend to his understanding of written promises, apparently.  He’s broken a written promise on non-renewable revenues, he’s broken a written promise on 5-Wing.  Let’s not bring up the written promise on income trusts.

Why is it that the language thing is so important, but basic honesty isn’t?


Thanks for the link RR cause I hadn’t seen the clip yet (haven’t been around a computer for three days and didn’t watch the news either). 

Not to excuse Dion, but the fatigue of campaigning might have had something to do with it too.  Harper isn’t talking to any media anymore ( … ional/home).  Maybe the fatigue is getting to him too. 

As a non-native English speaker, I can empathize with Dion, even though the question was very simple.  Yes, our prime minister must be a good English speaker but there are a lot of other things he must be too.  I’m not sure if Dion is the best man for the job but Harper is not, if we call ourselves a democracy.

Maybe Harper shows the type of leadership big business wants ( check this jerk who stars on CBC’s Dragons’Den for an example of what I mean).  But I don’t think the average canadian wants this, especially after that type of leadership is directly linked to what’s been happening to the stock markets.  It took Harper a little while to understand that the average canadian did care about this situation because the average canadians in his mind are all oil-rich albertans.
The NDP has a strong leader and a strong team.  The Liberals might not have strong leader in the business model but their team is superior to the PC.    Both alternatives are better than the conservative and their 1950’s style of politics at this point in time. 

I think that the language thing is a pretty weak bone to pick. I mean, it’s practically a compliment to Dion if that’s the only thing you have to slag him with.

And if people want to make a big deal about it, I think it’s worth mentioning that Dion’s English is better than most of the other candidates’ French.

Not having answers is what I slag Dion about. It’s one thing to bitch and moan about problems and another to come up with solutions that don’t sink a country in the process. Both Layton and Dion lack in the latter. Times will be tough and no Canadian has control over that, but that is no reason to expand and extend hard times. You can’t spend your way out of a recession.

Well you just stated the best reason NOT to vote Conservative, then added yet MORE.
I thought you were arguing FOR them…

While I am not in agreement with Dion on the important issues and will not vote for him to be PM - I agree 100% with this assessment of the interview in question.  There are many other ways that the question could have been worded to be clearer.  When Dion asked “Ok so if I was PM from what date?” for clarification, the interviewer did not answer him until a couple of sentences later - then posted what he had previously agreed not to, in its’ entirety to the public.  While I am all for the public to know everything they can about a potential candidate, I am also in agreement with being honest and keeping promises.  We expect our leaders (and potential leaders) to be nothing but honest with us (even though I realize they are not - voting is like ‘pick a liar, any liar’) but then we don’t get on the backs of journalists (in this case) who show blatant dishonesty?    

==================================== … 5c3bafe31d

Michael Smyth: Treatment of Dion unfair and unethical
Off-the-record agreements should be respected
Michael Smyth, The Province
Published: Sunday, October 12, 2008

Politicians are often quick to shoot the messenger when it’s their own verbal screw-ups that land them in trouble in the first place.

In the United States, Sarah Palin’s comment that the U.S. should “absolutely” attack terror targets in Pakistan seemed to contradict the position of her running mate, Republican presidential nominee John McCain.

“Gotcha journalism,” McCain griped.

But wait! Palin wasn’t responding to a trick question posed by a reporter looking to deliberately trip her up.

She was answering a clear question put to her by a voter during a public photo-op and she didn’t hesitate to give her opinion with a wall of reporters and TV cameras looking on.

That’s not “gotcha journalism.” That’s a politician making a gaffe. And voters deserve to judge her comments accordingly.

But what CTV did to Liberal Leader Stephane Dion last week was worse than gotcha journalism. It was unfair and unethical.

You’ve probably heard how a CTV regional anchorman in Halifax sat down with Dion for a pre-taped interview and the Liberal leader was confused by a question on the economy.

At Dion’s request – and with CTV’s approval – the interview was stopped and restarted three times.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper pounced on the incident as proof Dion is unqualified to be prime minister. The Tories derided the TV footage as worthy of a Saturday Night Live skit.

You can watch it in on YouTube and decide for yourself. But two key things occurred to me when I viewed it.

First of all, I don’t blame Dion for being confused by the question, and not just because English is his second language. This was a case where the journalist seemed more confused than the politician.

“If you were prime minister now, what would you have already done in this crisis that Mr. Harper hasn’t done?” asked CTV anchorman Steve Murphy.

The question is marred by muddy syntax and shifting tenses. Prime minister “now” means present tense, while “already done” suggests past tense. Exactly what is he getting at?

“If I was prime minister at which moment?” Dion rightly asks. “Today? Since a week? Since two weeks? Starting when?” Murphy never clarifies the critical point.

But worse than the bad questioning was CTV’s decision to air the entire footage after first assuring Dion and the Liberals that it would not be used. That’s a serious ethical breach.

If a journalist tells a source their comments will not be published or broadcast, those comments are off the record. Period. Any reporter who breaks a fundamental covenant like that should hang their head in shame.

Media pundits constantly roast politicians for not keeping their promises to voters. But in this case, a media outlet’s promise to a politician was worth the price of one cheap-shot news “story.”

Allow me to quote myself:

So RR, I still stand by my first and third statement in the quote.  However, I guess I was somewhat wrong with the second statement.  But with a very poor voters turnout, maybe the average canadian just doesn’t care about democracy.

I didnt care to vote because:

a) BC doesnt matter when it comes to electing a prime minister.
b) Kelowna voted 60% in favor of the conservative candidate with high voter turnout.
c) I’m leaving the okanagan so I really dont care who represents it.

Basically my vote wouldnt matter in the least so why waste my time  :unamused:

Yea–that interview was bogus. Anyone who looks at that and says “damn, Dion isn’t very smart” was already hunting for something to smear Dion with.

As the article Kaleid posted said, the question was TERRIBLY worded, and CTV should never have aired the pieces of the interview that were supposed to be edited out.

On the flip side, the Liberal MP they had on Mike Duffy after the interview was aired should never have tried to use the “he has a hearing problem” line. Dion didn’t understand a question because it was badly worded–it’s silly of his party members to bring his physical impairment into the fray.

Well, the democracy I live in has spoken. The largest number of people that actually cared enough to vote believe that Harper has the best plan, of those who would like to lead our country. I happen to agree with them. One of those votes that re-elected Harper was mine. I live in his riding.

I would question the wisdom of making life more difficult for business in hard economic times. If business can’t flourish they look for other locations to set up shop, or just go out of business. I have seen the former and done the latter. Some of the “closed” signs on former business doors in Prince Rupert ought to tell that story to you.

I’m really not sure what magical tricks the also rans  had that convinced you that they could create wealth out of thin air, but one look south of the border has me convinced it’s a “no go”. Just like I have to live within my means neither a business nor a country can sustain expenses that it can not generate. It’s really basic economics. Fortunately enough Canadians that took the time to vote agree with me.

Congratulations on your victory. :smile:
I am very happy that we re-elected Nathan as he does very good work for us.  The Conservatives have a minority government again.  At this point in time Canada is not comfortable enough with Harper’s agenda to give him a clear mandate (majority).  He does have a strengthened minority. 

Funny that conservative guy on the radio was talking about “watering down” election promises.  Jees, the election is only one day old and they’re already talking about breaking their promises.

RR, I question the wisdom of the people who have no food on their table and vote for a Party who will help the employer that just laid them off.
Do they really think that will help them somehow? They must.
I think the economic crash and Harper keeping his candidates lips stapled shut helped him a LOT. But his foolish pandering to the uber-right with his comments about artists and art funding botched it completely for him.
I still think he should cross the floor and take out Rae, Ignatieff and Trudeau in one fell swoop. He’d get like 307 seats…

I know the election is over and done with - but I still thought this was funny enough to share.