This keeps coming up, thanks to Saltyguy’s obsession.
The bottom line is that insurance is cheaper with ‘career’ firefighters, whether they are assisted by auxiliaries or not. Any less than 3 professionals on duty, and your rates will be higher.
That info is more than a couple of years old, but it’s still relevant. Doesn’t matter to Saltyguy, because he doesn’t care about the evidence. Apparently he would rather pay more in insurance than in taxes.
[quote]Interesting concept. I understand your former town is the same size as this town, but
is it a major international port? [/quote]
And how far away is the next town with a large fire department that can assist if needed?
I also grew up overseas in a small town with a full-time chief and two assistants. They also drove the ambulance. And there were a lot of volunteers and auxiliaries. But 15 minutes away was a town with a full fire department, and 25 minutes away was a major city with an even larger department. And houses made of brick, not wood
So Mig where are you getting your info from? Sounds like you are a fireman and just because YOU say I am wrong,let anyone who thinks you are right,check it out for themselves!Like I did!You are full of it!
Check Terrace rates,also Smithers which is a volunteer dept.We are $800,000.00 higher fire dept cost than Terrace!You just re enforce the Prince Rupert union mentality.
[quote=“saltybear”]So Mig where are you getting your info from? Sounds like you are a fireman and just because YOU say I am wrong,let anyone who thinks you are right,check it out for themselves!Like I did!You are full of it!
Check Terrace rates,also Smithers which is a volunteer dept.We are $800,000.00 higher fire dept cost than Terrace!You just re enforce the Prince Rupert union mentality.[/quote]
Quit your “effin” whining. You don’t like that Rupert has a full time fire department, too damn bad.
Next time you bring it up, I’m sure you’ll say the same thing again.
Bottom line is that insurance rates are higher if you don’t have 3 professional firefighters on duty, whether they are assisted by auxiliaries and volunteers or not.
Hey Big international energy companies! Come to Prince Rupert and build your LNG terminals! We have a volunteer fire department! Or go to Kitimat, which has a professional fire department. Your choice!
I think saltybear disguised himself as several different people and approached Mussallem with his fire dept. concerns, thus making Jack think this was a big issue in Rupert, which explains his bizarre reference to it at the candidates forum. Well played, saltybear.
According to their web site the Fire Department once had 22 full-time and 17 auxiliaries. The latter were disbanded in 1985 for ‘budgetary reasons’ and today their are 20 career members. Since then Rupert has lost a lot of industry.
Considering that they are responsible for Port Edward and Port facilities, and that several major industries are being proposed, perhaps the issue of having auxiliaries needs to be revisited.
In Interior mill towns, auxiliaries are trained and paid; they’re effectively part-time employees but on-call rather than with scheduled hours (other than for training). Some of those towns have major industrial facilities including lumber mills, pulp mills, pellet plants, etc. ‘Volunteers’ perhaps creates some wrong impressions.
Job protection is always an issue, of course, especially when they are union jobs, but I don’t see where having part-timer auxiliaries is really such a ridiculous idea.
Does Rupert have the staffing and equipment that will be needed to meet future needs? And if the fire department has to be increased would recruiting auxiliaries be out of the question, or should the City only hire more full-timers? Perhaps this is one more area where there needs to be a ‘re-think’.
Port Ed has its own volunteer fire dept,as well,the pulp mill,when it was operating,had its own firemen.Check out the lower mainland where there are container docks,oil terminal and see that all of their fire depts have aux firemen!
I know what you’re talking about because I’ve worked in industry in other places. The ratios vary, but many fire departments have auxiliaries, including in the lower mainland.
I also worked at a plant that was big enough to have its’ own fire department; some tended the equipment and supervised training and the others were on call from their regular jobs or from home. The municipal fire department, many of them auxiliaries, were available if there was risk of a fire getting out of control.
If LNG comes to the Rupert area those companies, as part of their risk assessments, will have to consider what internal fire fighting resources are needed. That’s an example of a practical LNG-related issue that the City should be including in its’ due diligence. The Mayor and council should have the Fire Chiefs specifically look at those aspects of the LNG proposals when those details are available. There are more issues than Flora Banks.
What mostly concerns me about this thread is that auxiliary firefighters in other municipalities, large and small, are such valued members of the community, while some of the comments here come across as smug and dismissive. The biggest difference with auxiliaries is that (other than for training) they are on call and paid accordingly. Like the career firefighters, auxiliaries train and risk life and limb so that the rest of us can live in relative safety. They deserve our respect.
I’m not dismissive of auxiliaries (or volunteers). I lived in Terrace, and we had great service from auxiliaries. Twice they responded to calls I made – Those guys work their asses off. Even there, though, they still have 3 professionals on duty 24/7.
I’m dismissive of the idea that an all-volunteer department = lower insurance rates, though. Which is bullshit. In the rural places outside of Terrace that are covered by an all-volunteer department (or 1 chief and the rest volunteer), the insurance is very high. And yes, I know that from first hand experience as well.
We’ve gone through this same debate so many times, because saltybear keeps bringing it up.
“What? There’s a new firetruck? Why don’t we fire them all and have volunteers instead!”
“What? Someone retired and they’re hiring a replacement? Fire them all and have all volunteers instead!”
“What? You don’t agree? You’re out to lunch! You must be a union firefighter! I have a cousin who lives in a town with just volunteers and their insurance is very cheap!”
That kind of thing.
The Prince Rupert fire department is about as small as you can get and still have 3 members on duty 24/7. Maybe they even unofficially break that rule as well. So maybe do they could use some volunteers or auxiliaries. But there’s no way they’d be able to cut back on professionals and have the insurance rates stay the same.
Just an idea in terms of “re-thinking” but if/when LNG companies end up coming to Prince Rupert, would the city be able to suggest that the fire hazard that an export facility might create would render the company to pay a portion of the fire dept’s budget? Considering the money involved in exporting LNG you’d think it wouldn’t be a huge burden for a company to pay a percentage of a 1.4 million dollar budget.
I think that issue definitely needs to be raised. The City should file as an intervenor in regulatory hearings, review proponents’ detailed plans, especially to assess implications for civic infrastructure and services, ask questions at the hearings, make submissions to the panel, and go to the Province if the answers are unsatisfactory, particularly around cost issues.
There has to be clarity about what the City is expected to do if there is a catastrophic event, what resources are needed, how they are going to provided, and who is going to pay for them.
One component of that planning has to be the adequacy of human resources, and that may include consideration of the need for auxiliary fire fighters, shocking though that prospect may be to some. All else aside, ever so often there is something to deal with that is bigger than a house or commercial building on fire, and existing resources may not be enough.
If we send our military to hostile places a lot of the boots on the ground are reservists; the RCMP has auxiliaries for major events and contingencies; maybe PRFD needs some auxiliaries just in case a day comes when citizens look out their windows or from their balconies and see a great thunderball on the skyline. It’s at least something to be considered.
I suspect that if any of these LNG plants actual come to fruition, they will have trained personnel onsite to deal with fires, gas leaks, etc. They will probably also have training programs for people to work at the plants.
The City should focus on providing roads, sewers, water, and a few social and recreation amenities.
Worrying about firefighters for LNG plants; training of LNG workers; etc, is far beyond the capacity (financial and probably intellectual) of the new and old Council.
Agreed. The LNG plants will be worth billions. The companies will want to protect their investments.
It will be very exciting here in town when construction begins. Interesting times ahead.
I guess you guys are right. No need for the City to make a case to the Province for LNG revenue sharing to address any impacts that these projects may have on the fire department and other services or to provide for contingencies.
