4 more years

I find both self serving, but either way, Canada has the world’s most expensive health care system, and yet way down the list for quality among other categories.

Blame those who pay? Blame those paid? Blame everybody?

It seems to me that the whole point of electing one person to any political position (provincial or federal) is to represent the interests of the people from which they are elected. The greater the number of voters, the better the sample, and hence the elected official is closer to actually representing the given population. Currently there are only two people running for the North Coast provincial representative: one represents the NPD and one the Liberals. You, the voter, must decide who best represents you, a question that you and only you can answer. Others can offer evidence from which you can base your decision, but don’t get sucked in by political rhetoric and double speak.

I’ve heard another, albeit related, discussion recently. Namely, what’s the point of electing someone to government if they are only going to be an opposition member? On the face of it this seems a reasonable question and concern. But is it? For one thing, we don’t know for sure that he will be the member of an opposition. Second, is a single party government the most effective? Isn’t it true that the opposition keeps debate open and forces the government to account for its actions? Third, what about government handouts for party supporters? No doubt we’ve all heard of the port expansion. Will that be gone if we vote opposite the government? This is unlikely for many reasons, not to mention that a completely different level of government was mainly responsible for it. But at this point I need assistance from more historically minded individuals to state arguments for why this (government rewards its supporters) is false.

[quote=“BigThumb”]Consider the source please! Get the alternative point of view from the people who work in the health sector:
http://www.bchealthcoalition.ca/materials.html[/quote]

That’s interesting, BigThumb, I counter Mig’s statement about healthcare, and you respond with quotes about education! There’s no doubt the Liberals have a terrible education record, but for healthcare… are they lying? Did they not increase it like they said they did? Really, wouldn’t it be a simple matter of looking at the budgets for the last decade to see if spending did go up or down?

I’m looking over the BCHC website now, and I can’t find anywhere that it specifically says overall healthcare funding was cut.

Looking at the budgets though (which seem to be online as far back as 2002), it looks like there have been incremental increases to funding year to year:

http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/default.htm

Sounds like cuts to me!

And about your education comment, I thought you would be smart enough to see the similarity with the health sector and that I wanted to show you that reading the liberal website shows one point of view while reading the BCTF yielded another. It’s up to people to see who is nearer to the truth. I know what I think.
One more thing, the budget link is also liberal propaganda. (They are using the slogan Golden Decade aren’t they?)

Yes, then why are we closing beds in Prince Rupert hospital?

Did you visit the hospital 5 years ago? Have you visited recently? Has the level of health care service available in Prince Rupert increased under the Liberals or decreased?

I like your comments about representation, Dave.

From what I understand, Nathan Cullen is doing a great job representing the riding, and he’s not a member of the government. (selected, by all MPs, including the government ones, as the “rookie of the year”)

So I’m voting in this provincial election for the person I think will represent Prince Rupert in Victoria the best.

That’s not a clown like Bill Belsey.

Hoshq, isn’t your recent unemployment a direct result of the Liberal “miracle” economy in Prince Rupert?

I wanted to take it one point at a time.

[quote=“BigThumb”]

Sounds like cuts to me![/quote]

Ah, I thought cuts meant financial cuts, not beds. My mistake.

The North should pull a Quebec style political move and get some concessions, how about a Bloc 250? Free New Caledonia! Eat wood chips & coal dust you 604’s, we’ll have our own port!

rockthevote
like counterstrike source?

Mig is on the right track. :wink:

Great discussion. Keep rockin.

s.

[quote=“hoshq”]

Ah, I thought cuts meant financial cuts, not beds. My mistake.[/quote]

Are they not the same? Cutting beds means lowering the cost, meaning that the they could cut funding. So funding 10 beds for X dollars, take out those 10 beds and oh, you dont need the X dollars anymore since those beds are gone now, so we wont give you the X dollars for those beds.

The Kootneys have been hit hard by hospital and bed closures. A friend of the family used to work at a hospital down there. After it closed she moved to Alberta and works at a hospital there now. I know of another who after the hospital closed got an offer from a hospital in the states and moved his family there. It was somewhere in Washington state.

My stepmother works specialized emerg nursing at St. Pauls hospital. Ask her about waiting lists…she says in the last year some days half of the people she sees are seniors in emerg because the beds they used to have were all closed by the liberals and not replaced. They have no where else to go. They take a bed for a while until an over worked, stressed out social worker can find a bed for them somewhere.

The liberals have closed and cutback lots of things over the last 4 yrs. Courthouses, hopitals, schools. Much of the Legal Aid offices around the province. how much did that save them? Single woman? Oh and you need a lawyer but cant afford one? Here is an 800 number to call…good luck.

Oh look my kids’ school closed now they have to bus and hour each way to school.

Ask MiG about education…he’s got a birds eye view of whats been happening under the liberals the last 4 yrs with regards to education.

I think it stinks they said oh we cant afford this or that, cut cut cut, now a month before an election the cash bags come out big time. The NDP did it too but I dont think as much as the Liberals have been lately.

Also I wonder how Gordo’s rehab has been? Done any drinking and driving lately?

I could go on but it just makes me more ticked off…

Sucks to not be rich now.

Thanks Bill Belsey, for getting rid of that tuition freeze.

Thanks Bill Belsey, for LOWERING the minimum wage.

What a clown.

[quote=“VMS”]

[quote=“hoshq”]

Ah, I thought cuts meant financial cuts, not beds. My mistake.[/quote]

Are they not the same? Cutting beds means lowering the cost, meaning that the they could cut funding. So funding 10 beds for X dollars, take out those 10 beds and oh, you dont need the X dollars anymore since those beds are gone now, so we wont give you the X dollars for those beds.[/quote]

They’re not the same. The budgets say funding for health has gone up.

what can u say… lets spend spend spend, lets create jobs out of thin air, lets feed the homeless, and provide them with rooms, lets put a freeze on education tuition, lets open up are forest to the loggers, to the fishermen, and to the minning company’s. lets stop the export of raw logs…
my god man, if you can do a better job and change the system why are you not running ?.. you cant see past your own reteric. I like to look at both sides, before making Opinion…and at this point its early. Both sides have there good points and bad points. you can not make everyone happy. and you cant change a person mind, my god it would sure suck if we all walked around like NPD zombies, or Liberial goons, we have a choice and BC and the people of BC will make a vote, THANK GOD… we can vote…

I think if people can have “thanks for the cruise ship dock, Bill Belsey” on a sign, it’s not much of a stretch to have “thanks for lowering the minimum wage, Bill Belsey” on one, is it?

Well, these are my thanks to Bill Belsey.

Thanks Bill. You clown.

And you realize that the BC Liberals and the Federal “Conservative Party” are pretty much the same people, right?

[quote=“hoshq”]
They’re not the same. The budgets say funding for health has gone up.[/quote]

After being slashed.

The last NDP budget (a balanced one, by the way, no borrowing), had 12.6 billion allotted to health care.

The Liberals came into power and cut more than 2 billion from that budget.

Now they give it back, 4 years later, and claim it is an “increase”.

But play with numbers all you want, the fact is that health was cut, as was education, to give the rich a tax break. Hospitals were closed (and are still being closed), and services are being cut.

Now all you financial people, who are so worried about deficits and borrowing and debt should look up how much debt the Liberals have run up in their 4 years in office. Their first year, thanks to their massive tax cut for the rich, meant the greatest budget deficit in BC history.

BC’s debt is larger now than it was before they came into power.

If you guys are so worried about finances, how do you justify the liberals borrowing more than the NDP did?

As for those who thinking voting NDP means no government support, you need to talk to Nathan Cullen, who is a much better representative than Bill Belsey the Clown. Nathan’s actually lobbying on our behalf, instead of making excuses like Belsey.

You really need to read what others (shock! including Conservative and Liberal MPs) have said about what kind of job Nathan’s been doing representing his riding. Shock! An NDP member!

Read this in the Daily News: tinyurl.com/e4dq7

Cullen’s doing a great job representing us to the government, not vice-versa. Belsey spends all his time defending the BC Liberals, Cullen spends all his time defending his riding.

Actually, even the Reform/Conservative MP before Cullen did a great job defending the riding and representing his constituents.

I’m not down on Belsey because he’s a member of the BC Liberals, I’m down on Belsey because his response to honest questions and concerns is “get a life”.

I’m down on Belsey because he point-blank lied to me.

I’m down on Belsey because he is a clown, period.

[quote=“Astrothug”]…
my god man, if you can do a better job and change the system why are you not running ?.. you cant see past your own reteric. [/quote]

Cheap shot! Especially since it is almost impossible to understand what you want you say in your post.

[quote=“Astrothug”]
I like to look at both sides, before making Opinion…and at this point its early. [/quote]

Not really early, we have had 4 years with the liberals. What VMS said is based on these 4 years.

Thanks for enligthing us.

[quote=“Astrothug”]
you can not make everyone happy. and you cant change a person mind, [/quote]

If you can’t change a person’s mind when it comes to electing MLA’s then what the heck is an election campaign for? Let’s crown Belsey, the Duke of the North and let him pledge allegeance to King Campbell.

yes it would suck but by entering this thread, you should have expected this.

and finally

Seems to me you already made your mind before listening to both sides. By the way, read MiG’s post about borrowing money.

There’s some really great stuff here, but I really have to agree with MiG.
BELSEY IS A BOZO. And he lied directly to me also MiG. And he certainly does not represent me and he never has. If the Liberals get another four years in power you better hope that all your children get to marry some one very rich. because the only jobs left for them following the liberal agenda will be part time, minimum wage with no benefits or future.
I wonder how many people on the front lines of either health care or education will be voting liberal? If they were doing such a good job as they profess one would expect more of these people that are employed directly by them to be supporting them?
I have known both Bill the Bozo Belsey and Gary Coons, personally for years, before either of them were involved in politics and I can tell you this Gary Coons is a far better friend of the people than Bill Belsey could ever possibly be even if he ever thought to actually try.

BC Debt increased by more than $7 billion during the BC Liberals’ term. It will soon increase to more than $9 billion.

WTF?

You’re telling me the Liberal borrowed money to give a tax cut to the rich?

You know, of course, that the NDP reduced the debt (and had a record surplus) in its last budget?

I think everything you assume about the NDP is backward.

Here’s a nice article about the “silence” from the media on the BC Liberal’s debt and deficit shame:

thetyee.ca/Views/2004/08/09/BCDebt/

So take your lecture about borrowing money to Bill Belsey the clown, not to me, thanks.

[quote=“MiG”]

[quote=“hoshq”]
They’re not the same. The budgets say funding for health has gone up.[/quote]

After being slashed.

The last NDP budget (a balanced one, by the way, no borrowing), had 12.6 billion allotted to health care.

The Liberals came into power and cut more than 2 billion from that budget.

Now they give it back, 4 years later, and claim it is an “increase”.[/quote]

It is interesting that the online budgets only go back as far as when the Liberals took over.

I figured that’s what it was though.