Just to let everyone know the 2nd Community Meeting will be held at the Civic Centre Auditorium on Wed. Oct. 6, from 7:00 pm - 9:30 pm. We decided on a later start time to give people a chance to get home from work and have supper before they came to the meeting. The topics for discussion will be Vandalism, Public Safety, and Policing. There will also be the general information station as there was at the first meeting. Hope to see you there.
Thank you Anna for that ! I have to assume that our Mayor and the rest of Council have enough advance notice this time to appear also. If they don’t, that will not show well on them but I thank you for the work you are trying to accomplish, for sure !
Anna, your devotion to the task of City business is duly noted. Unfortunately you are one among many.
Thank you for the update and reminders. Advise the other elected officials to attend. A better showing would be nice.
Will there be any other notifications, or is htmf it?
Thank you Anna for your time and patience , thank you for your efforts in trying to get a positive feed re meetings .
And now that the warm, fuzzy feelings and group hugs have been shared, it’s time for a dose of reality.
You and your little band of confederates have asked us to allow you to be our representatives and you are compensated for your work. It is your job to properly run this city and as representatives of the people, it is your responsibility to keep us informed. Properly informed.
Having cozy chats with the public about what it is we would like is all well and fine. But don’t you think it’s unfair to consult with us on what you should be doing when we don’t have a clue what it is you have been doing or undoing behind closed doors? What messes have you secretly created that we do not yet know of?
Giving the impression you care through a series of consultations may get you re-elected but wouldn’t that be a shameful act?
I would love nothing more than to share more information with everyone about the business that we do as a council in our closed meetings and have everyone more informed.
Unfortunately, the Community Charter, Section 117, which is the piece of legislation(law) that sets the rules about how we do things as a council, says that, by law, I must keep in confidence all items discussed at a closed meeting unless a majority of council agrees that we can talk about specific items, or until those specific items are officially discussed at an open meeting council.
Here is a link to the relevant section:
bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws … e/03026_04
I have been trying to have council share more information with people and/or for us to provide whatever information we can at open meetings and/or press releases. I have asked many times to be able to talk about various issues with people to let them know what is going on. However, as I already stated, unless the majority of council agrees then I am unable to do so under the law.
I do believe that there are certain times when it is in the best interest of the municipality to deal with certain business in closed meetings, which is why the law is in place. However, I also believe we could be giving people a lot more information than we do, and we could be explaining how things work a lot better. All I can do is continue to trying to get information out to the public as soon as possible in order to keep everyone more informed, and I will continue to do so.
In addition, there are also certain situations under the Protection of Privacy and Freedom of Information Act, where as a council, we are never allowed to disclose proceedings that occur during a closed meeting.
bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws … e/03026_05
Section 117 of the Community Charter states:
117 (1) A council member or former council member must, unless specifically authorized by council,
(a) Keep in confidence any record held in confidence by the municipality, until the record is released to the public as lawfully authorized or required, and
(b) Keep in confidence information considered in any part of a council meeting or council committee meeting that was lawfully closed to the public, until the council or committee discusses the information at a meeting that is open to the public or releases the information to the public.
(2) If the municipality suffers loss or damage because a person contravenes subsection (1) and the contravention was not inadvertent, the municipality may recover damages from the person for the loss of damage.
Because of this, once it has been decided that an item is going to be discussed at a closed meeting, based on Community Charter Section 90 (1), (2) and (3) all I can do is continue to push for information to be released to the public as soon as possible, which I have been doing. In order for this to happen a majority of council has to be in agreement, which means 4 out of 7 of us.
The link to the relevant section is here:
bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws … e/03026_04
Since the section is quite lengthy here is a summary of things that may or must be closed to the public in a closed meeting according to the law:
-when it deals with personal information about people being hired, or receiving awards
-labour or employee relations
-security of property
-buying and selling of land or improvements if disclosure could harm community interests
-law enforcement investigations
-litigation or potential litigation
-legal advice subject to solicitor-client privilege
-information prohibited to be disclosed under Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy act
-negotiations in preliminary stages regarding provision of a municipal service
-discussions with administration and employees regarding preparing annual report
-discussions about whether or not a council meeting should be closed or not
-requests for information under Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy act
-confidential information received from provincial or federal government
-matters being investigated under the Ombudsperson Act
Contrary to what some people may believe I am not trying to give anyone any type of impression, nor am I doing any of this for re-election purposes. I don’t do things for appearance sake. That is not who I am nor who I want to be.
I am trying to get people to come to these meetings because I actually do care what people think and I want to hear what they have to say, whether it is positive or negative. Granted the first is easier to hear, but it is only by hearing people’s concerns, and constructive criticism that we can improve. That is what I’m trying to do. If people choose to believe otherwise, then all I can do is to continue trying to do a better job, and I am certainly not ashamed for trying to improve or for asking people to voice their questions, concerns, suggestions and comments about what we are doing.
Anna, you are one among many. Has this already been said? Thanks for the brief lesson in constitutional law. Do the other council members really understand what it means to carry out so much of the public business in camera? Constant acts of secrecy such as this will destroy public trust. Perhaps the other members who vote against open decision-making just don’t care what we think? Or is it worse than we can imagine?
I can understand the frustration of wishing to share more details of council business and having that idea of transparency sidetracked.
Might be an idea for the minutes of council meetings to record and list for us the votes of each councillor, especially on these matters of taking items to behind the closed doors.
Would be interesting to see which members of this council frequently recommend holding back on information. A pattern which would be helpful to know about at election time.
[quote=“Smurfette”]I can understand the frustration of wishing to share more details of council business and having that idea of transparency sidetracked.
Might be an idea for the minutes of council meetings to record and list for us the votes of each councillor, especially on these matters of taking items to behind the closed doors.
Would be interesting to see which members of this council frequently recommend holding back on information. A pattern which would be helpful to know about at election time.[/quote]
Well said. More to the point of the matter.
I have little doubt that you have been pushing for more openness. As you point out the council legally can decide to reveal closed meeting information at public meetings, but it seldom does that.
Occasionally the mayor gives a terse report on what was decided, eg who was appointed to what. Some other councils consider matters in closed meetings, but then the motion is moved, seconded and voted on in the public meeting, so that citizens know who on council supported or opposed what.
From my observation other councils discuss much more of their business in public than this one. Check the minutes of other city councils, even of a fairly large, complex place like PG, and you’ll see that they hold relatively few closed meetings. I honestly wonder if Prince Rupert city council is the least open in the province.
Other councils are also more inclined to close part of a meeting while this council holds entire meetings, starting at 5 pm, before the public meeting starts at 7 pm. The frequency and length of those meetings does not inspire public trust, I suggest.
That is fine, but only the last four items MUST be considered in closed meetings, and other than provincial or federal government confidences, I doubt that those items arise frequently. The majority of the topics you cite MAY be considered in closed meetings, an authority that this council seems to rely on a great deal.
I think that another confusing area is that some information, eg personal information, must be kept confidential whether the meeting is open or closed. Even that information can be considered in public; it just cannot be disclosed or discussed.
To give an example, a few months ago there was consideration of an application to convert some rental properties to strata titles. The agenda package included the names of tenants. There was a requirement for the applicant to consult them, and for the council to scrutinize that, but their names should have been blotted out of the public copy. A person’s residential address and whether they have a tenancy agreement is private information unless they consent otherwise. If I was one of those people, I would have complained to the privacy commissioner.
My point is that the council members may have confidential information in front of them, but the issue may such that it can still be discussed in public without revealing the confidences, eg the tenants personal information was disclosed in the agenda package, but not in the discussion.
Finally, I think that if council members really want to engage citizens and hear their views, they should try to make people feel a bit more comfortable. I was astonished that at the last meeting the Mayor told a citizen about to ask a question that he should remove his hat. There seemed to be some mutterings of agreement around the table.
I don’t think that citizen-voters of this jurisdiction need to doff their hats to anybody on council. If the council wishes to have a dress code perhaps they should pass a procedural bylaw to that effect and post a sign at the entrance; and see whether a court will actually enforce it.
But in all seriousness it is polite to take your hats off when one is in such a setting . As for the sharing of information I would think this is going a bit too far especially when the voting public is waiting to hear something positive of the council . I believe this whole thing has gone to Jacko’s head and he is a control freak .
Has our little mayor puffer fish gone thinking he’s swimming in a bigger pool? He’s more bait than bite.
One could laugh at how ridiculous all this is if it weren’t so serious, and so true.
Wasn’t there a show on TV a while back called The Gong Show? Has it somehow been resurrected and playing out in prime time at City Hall?
[quote=“BTravenn”]
Let’s not forget, the Mayor asks this individual “What is your question?” Excuse me, but what about our viewers at home who do not have the background information and it is good to hear where this person is expressing his concern.
What has happened to respect and listening to the concerns of the people? It takes courage to go to these meetings and ask questions and if the same individuals have this, I appreciate they are taking time and courage to address them. It is my hope council will take what these people have to say serious, not just to slough off their comments as not much gets changed unless it affects council members, not really in the best interest of the public. Perhaps review the Quality of Life Official Community Plan because many of these concerns still have not been addressed.
So our civic leaders have destroyed the public trust. Big mistake. But it seems they are willing to try to repair this through a consultation activity. The consultations may well prove to be worthless in terms of building a better community as the direction they are taking simply lacks any direction. What we may get is an improved relationship between the people and the people who work for the people. That is if the servants realize they are the servants.
Yeah 100% attendance by all of council at every meeting is certainly sending a message to the community that they are serious about building a more open and consultative municipal government.
They say we get the government we deserve and it’s embarrassing to think we deserve the council(s) we’ve elected in the past decade.
[quote=“Speakuppr”]
Yeah 100% attendance by all of council at every meeting is certainly sending a message to the community that they are serious about building a more open and consultative municipal government.
They say we get the government we deserve and it’s embarrassing to think we deserve the council(s) we’ve elected in the past decade.[/quote]
Ever heard of the adage - No one moves and no one gets hurt?
A more appropriate version for our council(s) may be, No one thinks and no one gets any smart ideas.
Just a reminder that the 2nd community meeting is tonight from 7-930 pm at the civic centre auditorium. The topics are vandalism, public safety and policing. As well there will be a general information session. Hope to see everyone there.