Tax increases are the fault of City Hall - not BC Assessment

Salty Bear

What would you like to cut? Over the years, I have watched the budget process and I have actually gone down to City Hall and talked to the people who work there. A year ago, when I paid my taxes I saw a Property Tax Schedule that compared the municipal tax burden in Prince Rupert with that of other municipalities. It was pretty sobering. Yes, we do pay taxes, but the amount we pay is pretty much in line with the size of our municipality and the amenities that we support.

However, like Mr Traven, I am concerned about the cynicism that is being displayed either Council or/or City Staff by saying that there will be in excess of $1 million in additional tax revenue due to the increase in property values. It seems that they are then trying to pass the increase in tax revenue off as the responsibility of BC Assessment.

If this is the case, then they should be collectively ashamed of themselves. The people of Prince Rupert are not that dumb. Certainly, Mr. Long, Ms. Bomben, and Mayor Jack should know better - they all have years of experience. With regard to the rest of them, words cannot express how I feel (well actually they can, but I am not inclined libel people) about this Council which ran on a platform of increased transparency. Suffice to say, I am appalled at their behaviour.

Years ago, I contacted the former CFO Dan Rodin regarding how the mill rate was determined. He explained to me that he adjusted downward, the mill rate by increase in market value (property inflation) for each property classification. That way, the same amount of taxes would be collected even the average value of properties increased. For example, if we assume that the average property value increased by lets say 10%, then if your property increased by 10% then once the mill rate was adjusted, you would not pay any more taxes. However, if your property increased by more than 10% then you would pay additional taxes. On the other hand, if your property did not increase by 10% then you would pay less taxes.

Once the mill rate was adjusted, Council was then advised as to how much additional tax revenue was needed. Council would then debate the tax increase and then, depending on whether they thought a tax increase was necessary, they would pass an across - the - board percentage tax increase on each property classification.

I hope Council rethinks this whole idea, and ceases to blame BC Assessment. I cannot believe that they need that much additional money to balance the budget. They say they getting $250,000 from City West, and we all have heard that the Port is now paying more PILT than they used to. So why the need for more tax revenue?

Huh, who knew?

You people in Prince Rupert pay a large tax relative to your your property values, and this board has had a lot of debate over why that is and what is wasted spending, so I won’t go down that path and I don’t live there anymore so it doesn’t affect me. But the attached table is sobering. Granted it is 4 years old, but I would bet the numbers aren’t that different.

buyric.com/vancouver/2011/12 … -288/4957/

Citywest.

Crazy Horse

Thanks for providing the link to the schedule. I am not sure, but I think the schedule I saw only showed the taxes levied by the municipality and it looked a bit better. In Prince Rupert, as well as BC Assessment, Municipal Finance Authority, we have two Hospital Districts (I am not sure why), the Skeena Queen Charlotte Regional District, and finally the Municipality. City Council only has direct control over the Municipal Property Tax Levy.

I’ve often wished we were not part of the SQCRD. If you look at their budget, people in Prince Rupert pay the vast majority of the administration costs, and we get very little back for our contribution.

Hopefully, the newspaper can ask a few questions about the City’s budget this year, and a few questions about the SQCRD. It is too bad the paper seems to be more interested in writing “puff pieces” about how well the port authority is doing.

MIG

please move this thread from “General Chat” to the Prince Rupert category

I agreed. We need to sell City West. The sooner the better. I hope that the issue comes up in the next municipal election.

I don’t think that CityWest has a hope in hell in competing against the major players in the provision of anything. Witness the loss of the the cell phone business. Citywest is simply too small.

Also, if the CRTC follows the American model, eventually, CityWest will be required to allow other service providers to use its’ internet cable (okay they will get a bit money charging a fee - but not that much). It is expected that the companies in the market who will really be making money will be the providers of content. Witness the investment that NETFLIX plans this year. $3 billion on TV and film content.

Right now you can buy a LG Smart Tv for about $400 - $500 and plug it into your internet cable. You pay $8.00 per month for NETFLIX. If you go this way, you will never again buy cable tv from CityWest.

So, I say, lets sell it. If we realize $30 million on the sale and we bought dividend stock that paid a 3% dividend, we would get around $900,000 a year in dividends. This is a heck of a lot better than what we have been getting in the past 4 years and probably alot more than we can anticipate to receive in the next 5 years. If the Directors of City West think that the company has a great financial future - fine, they can buy it from the City. Sixty years ago, there was a need for phone service in Prince Rupert and no one else wanted to supply it. That context no longer exists.

I like the people at CityWest, but as a taxpayer, I am not interested in providing them with a job at the expense of my property taxes. The guys at the fire department and ferry, well, they do provide a service which I do not think can be replaced. As far as I am concerned, someone else can provide phone, cable and internet service along Highway 16. It does not have to be the taxpayers of Prince Rupert!

It is quite comical that City Hall is trying to make it seem like the tax increase this year of 1.4 million is the fault of BC Assessment and NOT them…that is quite ridiculous and insulting to the intelligence of Prince Rupert tax payers.

Rather than adjust the mill rate down to a level that would keep taxes in line with previous years, City Hall is planing to keep the mill rate at the same level as last year, thus triggering a tax increase for each taxpayer that is equivalent to the percentage of how much their property assessment went up…for some people this = a 20% hike over last years taxes, which is OUTRAGEOUS!

How the mayor can sit there and tell us tax payers to blame BC Assessment, is just plain as day idiotic and incredibly insulting. The buck starts and ends with City Hall…they could easily adjust the mill rate modestly to lessen the blow for some homeowners…there is really no acceptable reason for them to not try an keep taxes near the same level they were last year.

The city should take note of what happened in Kitimat last year when their assessments shot through the roof…their council and mayor reduced the city’s mill rate to ensure tax payers would not be cut off at the knees!

I urge everyone to contact City Hall and make sure they are well aware that you will not be played for a fool and that we as taxpayers are not blind to what the city is trying to do here.

I voted for Jack Mussallem in the last election…but I certainly will be ready to show him (and anyone else on council who supports this blame shifting) the door in November…his blatant disregard for this city’s homeowners is appalling and is the last straw for this taxpayer.

I have been reading the pages of HTMF for about 3 years now. It’s amazing that my outrage has triggered me to post for the first time. This is a shell game that has insulted the tax payers of Prince Rupert. It’s fair to assume our elected officials lurk the pages of our online rag to gauge the public perception. Hopefully they will read our dismay with their decision making and rethink their position on not to lower the mill rate accordingly. If that doesn’t happen, the only thing left in my arsenal is my vote. Shame on them!

My concern is that with projected regional growth and an expected rise in property values, assessments will continue to rise and taxes will become even more outrageous than they already are. A while back it was brought to my attention that one of our city managers may have sabotaged an initiative that was designed to be a significant cost saving measure and if that is truly the case then it’s unfortunate that we would have to pay through the nose for this mismanagement.


There is a pretty good thread discussing the tax increase in the Northern BC Forum. Perhaps MIG will link the threads.

My question now is where is our hard-hitting investigative newspaper reporters? Why do they not do a survey of other municipalities to see if those municipalities are playing the same game as our Counci? Why do they not ask a question or two at a Council meeting? The paper seems to have lost any ability to do critical analysis. Instead they do joint infomercials with the Port Authority.

I do not live in Prince Rupert, I had to move for work. However, I still own a house there. This ploy of Council is really underhanded, and I hope people will take them to task in the budget consultation process.

Welcome to HTMF, ShelleyRobin! :smile:
I am also dismayed by the ever increasing taxes. Our votes can bring about change. Let us get out and vote in November.

kind of funny when property values went down and the mill rate went up the Mayor at the time said taxes are not going up because you are paying the same amount, now the opposite is true, mill rate stays the same values increase so you pay more in taxes and the Mayor says taxes are not going up because the mill rate is staying the same. So Mr Mayor which statement is true?

[quote=“Pantagruel”]There is a pretty good thread discussing the tax increase in the Northern BC Forum. Perhaps MIG will link the threads.
[/quote]

There is an interesting screen shot on that thread of the proposed budget showing the tax increase as a “market change”. If it’s not BC Assessment that raised your taxes it is some anonymous, impersonal force called ‘the market’; but not the elected City council that is mandated by law to set the mill rate that actually determines your taxes.

http://forum.hackingthemainframe.com/t/tax-increases-are-the-fault-of-city-hall-not-bc-assessment/16215/9

So where is our resident “people’s councilor” Anna Ashley to provide her comment?

She is a teacher, surely she is not dumb enough to think the people who voted for her are actually falling for this crap?

Surely you would have something to say about this?

[quote=“Green Bastard”]If you all only knew of the colossal waste of money that goes on at the city works maintenance yard you would be flaberghasted AUDIT!!!

How many of you have seen the new zamboni that was purchased working in the arena? I havent seen it for months. Why, because its broken and no one knows how to fix it!
How many of you have seen the new wheeled excavator that the city purchased to the tune of 300,000 plus being put to work? not me its too high to fit under the power lines, so we must rent a machine from local contractors at additional cost. How about installing new tires on trucks because they are not the prefered brand? Corruption Corruption Corruption! time for a provincial audit of this joke of a city hall and its associated counciling clowns![/quote]

I can see the story now (press release printed verbatim by the View, with no investigating): Mayor Jack Mussallem said “we have heard concerns from the public about waste in public works and, so, City Manager Bob Long will create a consultant job for another one of his buddies from Nanaimo. Mr. Horne needs not feel threatened.”

Hello everyone,

Yes I have been paying attention to what is being said on htmf regarding this issue. Unfortunately I was in Langley at provincials with my junior girls basketball team during the last council meeting and did not have the opportunity to ask any questions or voice any concerns over the budget when it was presented.

I have sent a number of questions and concerns to the rest of council and staff regarding the budget, and in particular with regard to the issue around the mill rate. Similar concerns and questions were asked by several other councillors at the meeting who, I believe, share the same concerns that people have been expressing on here regarding the mill rate. Despite my concerns, however, I am confident that as a group, council and staff will be able to work together to address the questions and concerns that have been raised following the first presentation of the budget last week and make whatever changes are necessary.

I absolutely agree that BC assessment property value increases cannot, and should not, be blamed for tax increases. Council is the governing body who determines the level of taxation needed to run the city, based on the information presented to us by staff, as well as the viewpoints expressed by the people of Prince Rupert, and we need to be accountable for those decisions.

In my opinion, which I believe is shared by many on council, the best way to do this is by adjusting the mill rate to account for fluctuations caused by increases and/or decreases in bc assessment property values, and then determine our budgetary needs based on that adjustment. There are obviously different approved methods that municipalities can use to formulate their budgets and figure out taxation rates, however, I feel adjusting the mill rate is the easiest to understand, and therefore the most transparent.

In the past, at least while I have been on council, when property values have increased as a result of bc assessment, the mill rate has been adjusted in order to reflect those increases. This, I believe, in turn, gives everyone a more accurate picture of what the proposed budget will cost the city and how much, if any, taxes would need to go up as a result. Council can then look more closely at the budget and determine their options in determining the amount of taxation needed to serve the city’s needs, and whether that means cutting spending, increasing service fees, or raising taxes. As a result people can give informed feedback on the options council comes up with, regarding the budget, during the public consultations. This allows for those of us on council to consider what people have said before making our final decisions on the budget.

The good news is that the budget process is just starting so there is plenty of time for asking questions, voicing concerns, and making adjustments, as well as to give those of us on council feedback so we can make changes. I would encourage everyone that has questions, concerns or suggestions to please share those with all of us on council. Every one of us on council was voted in to represent your views and opinions when it comes to making decisions regarding our city, and the budget is the biggest one of those decisions.

The first opportunity for public comment on the budget is this Monday evening, March 10th at 7. There will be a second opportunity on March 24th when 1st and 2nd reading of the budget will be done. On April 7th there will still be opportunities for revisions to be made as we have 3rd reading. The proposed final budget adoption is scheduled for April 14th. If council is still not satisfied we can schedule another meeting, as well ,since the legislated deadline for adopting the budget is May 15th. At this point in time, the budget is far from being finalized and there is a lot of time for input and revisions.

I hope this helps alleviate at least some of your concerns. If you have any further questions, concerns or suggestions my email is anna.ashley@princerupert.ca . I’m also the only Ashley in the phone book if you want to talk to me.

I hope everyone has a good weekend. Hope to see many of you on Monday.

Sincerely,

Anna Ashley

Thanks for the reply Anna. My utilities bill is higher this year. I am hopeful that you and the other council members will indeed take another look at taxes this year and reassess the need for a hefty increase.

There was an interesting editorial published in the Northern View. The editorial said that the proposed upcoming tax increase is political suicide. I certainly will not vote for anyone who supports the proposed tax increase.

[quote=“AnnaA”]Hello everyone,

Yes I have been paying attention to what is being said on htmf regarding this issue. Unfortunately I was in Langley at provincials with my junior girls basketball team during the last council meeting and did not have the opportunity to ask any questions or voice any concerns over the budget when it was presented.

I have sent a number of questions and concerns to the rest of council and staff regarding the budget, and in particular with regard to the issue around the mill rate. Similar concerns and questions were asked by several other councillors at the meeting who, I believe, share the same concerns that people have been expressing on here regarding the mill rate. Despite my concerns, however, I am confident that as a group, council and staff will be able to work together to address the questions and concerns that have been raised following the first presentation of the budget last week and make whatever changes are necessary.

I absolutely agree that BC assessment property value increases cannot, and should not, be blamed for tax increases. Council is the governing body who determines the level of taxation needed to run the city, based on the information presented to us by staff, as well as the viewpoints expressed by the people of Prince Rupert, and we need to be accountable for those decisions.

In my opinion, which I believe is shared by many on council, the best way to do this is by adjusting the mill rate to account for fluctuations caused by increases and/or decreases in bc assessment property values, and then determine our budgetary needs based on that adjustment. There are obviously different approved methods that municipalities can use to formulate their budgets and figure out taxation rates, however, I feel adjusting the mill rate is the easiest to understand, and therefore the most transparent.

In the past, at least while I have been on council, when property values have increased as a result of bc assessment, the mill rate has been adjusted in order to reflect those increases. This, I believe, in turn, gives everyone a more accurate picture of what the proposed budget will cost the city and how much, if any, taxes would need to go up as a result. Council can then look more closely at the budget and determine their options in determining the amount of taxation needed to serve the city’s needs, and whether that means cutting spending, increasing service fees, or raising taxes. As a result people can give informed feedback on the options council comes up with, regarding the budget, during the public consultations. This allows for those of us on council to consider what people have said before making our final decisions on the budget.

The good news is that the budget process is just starting so there is plenty of time for asking questions, voicing concerns, and making adjustments, as well as to give those of us on council feedback so we can make changes. I would encourage everyone that has questions, concerns or suggestions to please share those with all of us on council. Every one of us on council was voted in to represent your views and opinions when it comes to making decisions regarding our city, and the budget is the biggest one of those decisions.

The first opportunity for public comment on the budget is this Monday evening, March 10th at 7. There will be a second opportunity on March 24th when 1st and 2nd reading of the budget will be done. On April 7th there will still be opportunities for revisions to be made as we have 3rd reading. The proposed final budget adoption is scheduled for April 14th. If council is still not satisfied we can schedule another meeting, as well ,since the legislated deadline for adopting the budget is May 15th. At this point in time, the budget is far from being finalized and there is a lot of time for input and revisions.

I hope this helps alleviate at least some of your concerns. If you have any further questions, concerns or suggestions my email is anna.ashley@princerupert.ca . I’m also the only Ashley in the phone book if you want to talk to me.

I hope everyone has a good weekend. Hope to see many of you on Monday.

Sincerely,

Anna Ashley[/quote]

Thank you very much for commenting…it was a very much needed response.

Glad to know you are not as out to lunch as our mayor is…so again thank you and I look forward to seeing you take up the fight for the Rupert taxpayers.